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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How long until someone makes an SVD? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/5/2015 1:17:59 PM EDT
| how long will it be until one of these companies that is currently making American made AK-47s will go ahead and start production on an SVD? It seems like the logical thing to do given there are not in the market, PSLs are no longer imported, and it's nearly impossible to find a real Russian SVD. If these companies are tooling up to make AKs, why not to look to make an SVD as well? |
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how long will it be until one of these companies that is currently making American made AK-47s will go ahead and start production on an SVD? It seems like the logical thing to do given there are not in the market, PSLs are no longer imported, and it's nearly impossible to find a real Russian SVD. If these companies are tooling up to make AKs, why not to look to make an SVD as well? I don't think anyone will. They seem difficult to make cost effectively. The only way I see U.S. ones being built is if parts kits came into the country. |
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Quoted: I don't think anyone will. They seem difficult to make cost effectively. The only way I see U.S. ones being built is if parts kits came into the country. Quoted: Quoted: how long will it be until one of these companies that is currently making American made AK-47s will go ahead and start production on an SVD? It seems like the logical thing to do given there are not in the market, PSLs are no longer imported, and it's nearly impossible to find a real Russian SVD. If these companies are tooling up to make AKs, why not to look to make an SVD as well? I don't think anyone will. They seem difficult to make cost effectively. The only way I see U.S. ones being built is if parts kits came into the country. |
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Your crystal ball is as accurate as anyone elses when it comes to things like this.
I'm gonna go with "probably never." The SVD fan base is a subset of the AK market. Not a big enough of a market to make it financially worthwhile. I do hope I'm wrong, but that is just how I see it. |
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the same could be said for AK variants. If you have to tool up to make a rifle either way, why not something that you would have market share on? Quoted:
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how long will it be until one of these companies that is currently making American made AK-47s will go ahead and start production on an SVD? It seems like the logical thing to do given there are not in the market, PSLs are no longer imported, and it's nearly impossible to find a real Russian SVD. If these companies are tooling up to make AKs, why not to look to make an SVD as well? I don't think anyone will. They seem difficult to make cost effectively. The only way I see U.S. ones being built is if parts kits came into the country. The people that really want a SVD have one. The AK has a much bigger market then the SVD. You can get a steel ak mag for 10-15 bucks, SVDs mags are 80-100 for a mag. I see it as more of a novelty. I think if they could make them for 2500 or under they would sell. The SVD is like the StG44 everybody wants one but, when a repo comes out for 5k no one buys them. I don't see a US make SVD for under 5k and thats using surplus parts. For 5k i would just get a Russian Tigr and convert it. |
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Your crystal ball is as accurate as anyone elses when it comes to things like this. I'm gonna go with "probably never." The SVD fan base is a subset of the AK market. Not a big enough of a market to make it financially worthwhile. I do hope I'm wrong, but that is just how I see it. This exactly; the same probability that Colt will try and save themselves by making their "Snake Guns" again. You want an SVD? Go buy an SVT-40 or a FAL, both operate like the SVD, are about as accurate as an SVD, both are from the the same period as the SVD. The SVD is iconic, but there are many more accurate, available rifles for $5K |
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It would be cool if someone does make an SVD, but I won't hold my breath.
Even if someone does, I envision them being priced as high or higher than what is currently available on the used market due to relatively low demand, and huge start up/manufacturing costs since it is going to be all new. |
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terrible idea. Quoted:
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I can see a SVD Clone in 7.62x39 that takes standard ak mags. This. That would kill it. They need to bring in some SVD kits, I don't think you'd even have to cut the barrels since they weren't ever full auto. Then get CNC Warrior to make a run of receivers. |
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Weren't Zastavas supposed to be imported? What ever happened to that idea? Zastava said it was happening for several months..but the whole time Century said they had no plans for it. I guess the Serbs eventually realized Century wasn't joking 
Seems ridiculous to me.. as Century brought in tons of the PSL.. so they know there is a market for rifles like that. |
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Still waiting on the Zastava M91. Now that the PSL is basically gone, there's a pretty large hole in the scoped/dmr segment of the AK market. http://www.zastava-arms.rs/sites/default/files/m91_0.png Would buy. Looks like adjustable gas? |
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Quoted: Would buy. Looks like adjustable gas? Quoted: Quoted: Still waiting on the Zastava M91. Now that the PSL is basically gone, there's a pretty large hole in the scoped/dmr segment of the AK market. http://www.zastava-arms.rs/sites/default/files/m91_0.png Would buy. Looks like adjustable gas? |
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I got to shoot an SVD in Afghanistan, I was very impressed with it, extremely lightweight but wasn't ready for the recoil, I was used to the PSL and forgot SVD's use a flash hider vs. PSL's muzzle break
I also held an M91 downrange too, pics of it pop up online all the time, I really wish we could get the Dragunov, but would just as happy to get the M91 |
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Some one should just import some parts kits and the receiver and bbl issue will solve it's self. This has been tried many times. SVDs were made in much smaller quantities compared to AKs, so they are rarely ever surplused out. So there just aren't many out there to turn into parts kits as the countries who field them just keep using them. |
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Quoted: This has been tried many times. SVDs were made in much smaller quantities compared to AKs, so they are rarely ever surplused out. So there just aren't many out there to turn into parts kits as the countries who field them just keep using them. Quoted: Quoted: Some one should just import some parts kits and the receiver and bbl issue will solve it's self. This has been tried many times. SVDs were made in much smaller quantities compared to AKs, so they are rarely ever surplused out. So there just aren't many out there to turn into parts kits as the countries who field them just keep using them.  |
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Yeah that is too bad that all the American gun manufacturers are too stupid to know how to read blueprints, run a machine shop, and a work a CNC machine.
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Some one should just import some parts kits and the receiver and bbl issue will solve it's self. This has been tried many times. SVDs were made in much smaller quantities compared to AKs, so they are rarely ever surplused out. So there just aren't many out there to turn into parts kits as the countries who field them just keep using them.
They are in the business of making money, not doing us favors. Unless they can sell them by the seemingly endless truckload, they aren't going to bother with it. SVD is a collector type gun. Really isn't financially worth any company dedicated the time and effort into making them from scratch. I wish I was wrong as I'd love to have an SVD again without spending thousands on it, but that just seems to be the way it is. |
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I guess the other option would be to import some Iraqi Al Kadesih rifles, which are not Russian, so maybe they are not banned by name. A bunch of reasons I can't see that happening Is the factory that made the rifle still producing them? Last I check it went under no later than 2003, and even if it was still in production we wouldn't be able to get it here, and on top of that Iraq needs all the arms it can get to fight ISIS right now. I hate shitting on dreams but we have a better chance of getting the M91 or Dragunov Maybe if we create a petition to Century Arms they'll import the M91? |
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I can see a SVD Clone in 7.62x39 that takes standard ak mags. I saw that too, in the 1990's. They were Chinese and had a long front end (Much longer than an NHM-91) and had SVD handguards. They were advertised in the Shotgun News for awhile; An obvious special-order from a US distributor, but from the factory. |
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Small market, the SVD would be expensive (the SVD is NOT an overgrown AK as many assume) and outperformed by newer AR10 pattern DMRs In my opinion the SVD would be like the old NM M14's, looks good but a PITA How is an SVD a PITA? They're great shooters! Does anybody really know how big the market for these rifles truly is though? Everytime I go to the range with my PSL people are interested in shooting it or where they can get one, I think the market it bigger than we're really giving it credit for |
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How is an SVD a PITA? They're great shooters! Does anybody really know how big the market for these rifles truly is though? Everytime I go to the range with my PSL people are interested in shooting it or where they can get one, I think the market it bigger than we're really giving it credit for Quoted:
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Small market, the SVD would be expensive (the SVD is NOT an overgrown AK as many assume) and outperformed by newer AR10 pattern DMRs In my opinion the SVD would be like the old NM M14's, looks good but a PITA How is an SVD a PITA? They're great shooters! Does anybody really know how big the market for these rifles truly is though? Everytime I go to the range with my PSL people are interested in shooting it or where they can get one, I think the market it bigger than we're really giving it credit for There is a big market and people want them. I just don't see people paying a ton of money for one. |
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How is an SVD a PITA? They're great shooters! Does anybody really know how big the market for these rifles truly is though? Everytime I go to the range with my PSL people are interested in shooting it or where they can get one, I think the market it bigger than we're really giving it credit for Quoted:
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Small market, the SVD would be expensive (the SVD is NOT an overgrown AK as many assume) and outperformed by newer AR10 pattern DMRs In my opinion the SVD would be like the old NM M14's, looks good but a PITA How is an SVD a PITA? They're great shooters! Does anybody really know how big the market for these rifles truly is though? Everytime I go to the range with my PSL people are interested in shooting it or where they can get one, I think the market it bigger than we're really giving it credit for People want them for sure, but they seem to want them for sub-$1000.. and that just isn't going to happen. Even a US made one will be an expensive rifle initially, because there will be a lot of startup costs to recoup. Someone earlier in the thread said they would sell if they were $2500. Not even close. Back in 2010 you could get Tigrs and .308 NDM's for that price all day long.. and everyone sat around bitching about them being too expensive and wanting someone to make them for waaaaaaay cheaper lol |
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I know few people willing to pay more than $1k on a firearm, so that makes sense, but if someone introduced one at the right cost to get enough collectors to buy it at first then drop down the cost, like IWI did with the Tavor, I'm down
Really though the Dragunov is not that complicated a system and if Century makes an American AK for $700 what's stopping someone from making a dragunov for a little over 1K given the resources? |
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I know few people willing to pay more than $1k on a firearm, so that makes sense, but if someone introduced one at the right cost to get enough collectors to buy it at first then drop down the cost, like IWI did with the Tavor, I'm down Really though the Dragunov is not that complicated a system and if Century makes an American AK for $700 what's stopping someone from making a dragunov for a little over 1K given the resources? It would be very expensive to design the tooling and costly to machine It's not going to happen |
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Quoted: It would be very expensive to design the tooling and costly to machine It's not going to happen Quoted: Quoted: I know few people willing to pay more than $1k on a firearm, so that makes sense, but if someone introduced one at the right cost to get enough collectors to buy it at first then drop down the cost, like IWI did with the Tavor, I'm down Really though the Dragunov is not that complicated a system and if Century makes an American AK for $700 what's stopping someone from making a dragunov for a little over 1K given the resources? It would be very expensive to design the tooling and costly to machine It's not going to happen |
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I do not think most people understand the startup costs that go into making a rifle like the AK or SVD from scratch. To make a fully U.S. made AK is likely $50,000-$100,000 just in tooling and design, and that is when you have a readily available supply of magazines on the market for the gun, and aren't trying to get every detail right on the gun.
Throw multi-stage stamping dies and welding in for a unique magazine and you are in another $100,000 in tooling, and then you still have to get all the details right on a collector type gun like this. Is it possible to make an SVD in the U.S.? Sure. But is anyone going to want to risk that kind of capital on a gun that may sell a few hundred or maybe a few thousand units at best? And that a lot of people will say "well, it isnt a REAL Russian or Chinese made SVD...." Fairly unlikely from my point of view that any company currently in the AK market would take that kind of risk. That kind of money can allow you to invest in A LOT of other projects that will make good money. An SVD clone is going to be a labor of love if it happens. |
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Quoted: I do not think most people understand the startup costs that go into making a rifle like the AK or SVD from scratch. To make a fully U.S. made AK is likely $50,000-$100,000 just in tooling and design, and that is when you have a readily available supply of magazines on the market for the gun, and aren't trying to get every detail right on the gun. Throw multi-stage stamping dies and welding in for a unique magazine and you are in another $100,000 in tooling, and then you still have to get all the details right on a collector type gun like this. Is it possible to make an SVD in the U.S.? Sure. But is anyone going to want to risk that kind of capital on a gun that may sell a few hundred or maybe a few thousand units at best? And that a lot of people will say "well, it isnt a REAL Russian or Chinese made SVD...." Fairly unlikely from my point of view that any company currently in the AK market would take that kind of risk. That kind of money can allow you to invest in A LOT of other projects that will make good money. An SVD clone is going to be a labor of love if it happens. |
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Manticore, what's the difference in the cost when it comes to milling a receiver vs stamping one? Reason I'm asking is the SVD is milled.
What about using various sources for the project instead of production in one area like the first Centurion rifle was a collaboration of multiple parts companies? Would that be a money saver? |
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Manticore, what's the difference in the cost when it comes to milling a receiver vs stamping one? Reason I'm asking is the SVD is milled. What about using various sources for the project instead of production in one area like the first Centurion rifle was a collaboration of multiple parts companies? Would that be a money saver? I don't know the exact cost, but once you have a good stamping die, an AK receiver can be made in mass extremely quickly. Milling one is going to take several hours on a CNC. To the second point, you'd just be spreading out the cost/risk across more companies. SVD parts are unique to the SVD, there isn't any commonality to the AK. The first Centurion worked because there is a pretty large cottage industry supporting AK builds and 922R compliance ever since the first "sporting" rifles and parts kits were imported. The SVD market is minuscule at best and the ROI for small bits of work wouldn't be worth it for most companies. |
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I do not think most people understand the startup costs that go into making a rifle like the AK or SVD from scratch. To make a fully U.S. made AK is likely $50,000-$100,000 just in tooling and design, and that is when you have a readily available supply of magazines on the market for the gun, and aren't trying to get every detail right on the gun. Throw multi-stage stamping dies and welding in for a unique magazine and you are in another $100,000 in tooling, and then you still have to get all the details right on a collector type gun like this. Is it possible to make an SVD in the U.S.? Sure. But is anyone going to want to risk that kind of capital on a gun that may sell a few hundred or maybe a few thousand units at best? And that a lot of people will say "well, it isnt a REAL Russian or Chinese made SVD...." Fairly unlikely from my point of view that any company currently in the AK market would take that kind of risk. That kind of money can allow you to invest in A LOT of other projects that will make good money. An SVD clone is going to be a labor of love if it happens. Excellent post. I too would be a buyer, however I see just too much risk for a company to make one in the US. |
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How about an American 7.62x54r AK similiar to the VEPR 7.62x54r's? Wouldn't that be easier to produce than the Dragunov? You're using a lot of common AK parts Barrel is not common, mags are not common, trunnions are not common, gas piston is not common, gas tube is not common, furniture is not common I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here. The weapons you seek are readily available and they are made in an oversees arsenal that produced weapons for the WarPac nation (-SFRYugo) in which they are located. Cugir, Izhevsk, Molot, Zastava each have 60+ years of experience building these types of weapons AND they use hammer forged barrels |
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Barrel is not common, mags are not common, trunnions are not common, gas piston is not common, gas tube is not common, furniture is not common I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here. The weapons you seek are readily available and they are made in an oversees arsenal that produced weapons for the WarPac nation (-SFRYugo) in which they are located. Cugir, Izhevsk, Molot, Zastava each have 60+ years of experience building these types of weapons AND they use hammer forged barrels Quoted:
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How about an American 7.62x54r AK similiar to the VEPR 7.62x54r's? Wouldn't that be easier to produce than the Dragunov? You're using a lot of common AK parts Barrel is not common, mags are not common, trunnions are not common, gas piston is not common, gas tube is not common, furniture is not common I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here. The weapons you seek are readily available and they are made in an oversees arsenal that produced weapons for the WarPac nation (-SFRYugo) in which they are located. Cugir, Izhevsk, Molot, Zastava each have 60+ years of experience building these types of weapons AND they use hammer forged barrels Red- use a mag that is already on the market like the VEPR mag or the PSL mag, Blue- It could use standard AKM pattern furniture, I'm talking about a 7.62x54r AK not a dragunov right now Green- the Weapons I am seeking are not readily available, PSL's have jumped in price, until sanctions on Russia are lifted (which... well that won't happen) the VEPR 7.62x54r is going to become more expensive, and (one of of the reasons this thread was started) Dragunov's are $3000+ The problem I'm trying to address is a couple things: Cugir no longer makes the PSL, the VEPR's are sanctioned, and Century refuses to import the M91, so somebody needs to fill the gap, I'm trying to get at finding a way it can be made in the U.S. since we are close to no longer relying on foreign imports due to whatever political/importer issues there may be, and I'm trying to bring up the argument that it can be done, but the very logical arguments have been made that it's cost prohibitive, so I'm trying to find a way to solve that, it's like thinking out loud, except on ARFCOM |
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I hate comments like this. Do you think that every other new design of anything is free? Quoted:
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I know few people willing to pay more than $1k on a firearm, so that makes sense, but if someone introduced one at the right cost to get enough collectors to buy it at first then drop down the cost, like IWI did with the Tavor, I'm down Really though the Dragunov is not that complicated a system and if Century makes an American AK for $700 what's stopping someone from making a dragunov for a little over 1K given the resources? It would be very expensive to design the tooling and costly to machine It's not going to happen You are ignoring the size of the market. SVD market is small. Most people would buy a .308 AR instead. So it would take the manufacturer a long time to recover their own startup costs (if they ever do) and make it a profitable venture. The PSA AK isn't even comparable as the AK market in the U.S. has been huge for a long time now. You are expecting a company to invest a fortune building a rifle with an unproven market. |
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Manticore, what's the difference in the cost when it comes to milling a receiver vs stamping one? Reason I'm asking is the SVD is milled. What about using various sources for the project instead of production in one area like the first Centurion rifle was a collaboration of multiple parts companies? Would that be a money saver? Milling has less startup cost (no die contstruction) but the unit cost is higher. Milling does solve a few problems on compnents needed,, such as you don't actually have to make a front and rear trunion as they are integral to the weapon, and no rivetting,fitting of the trunions to the receiver, so some labor savings there. That is just off the top of my head, and I don't have an SVD reciever in hand to see the intracacies of the machining needed, so I can't say which is going to be cheaper to do. The real issue is startup cost vs. volume. When you can sell lots of volume your overhead per unit comes down, and you can do something like the Century C39V2 and sell it for a reasonable price. If you are selling a much smaller volume the price goes up considerably. The problem with the SVD is at least personally I think the market demand is nowhere near what most people think it is. Farming out to more companies doesn't reduce risk, it just increases the chances of someone not meeting spec or doing something wrong. You can sub out work all you want, but ultiamtely someone has to be in charge of the project, and that is the person doing the desgin and cutting the checks. I think Makak47 might be onto something a bit more realistic- a 7.62x54R AK that uses standard AK furniture, and if you could hit a price point of around $800-$850 I think they would sell to a larger market than an SVD copy. Still have the issue of magazines as I can't think of a readily available 7.62x54R rock and lock magazine offhand. Still not something I would want to tackle, but maybe some enterprising company would be willing to give it a go- seems less risky than trying to do an authentic SVD copy. I actually recall Waffen Works or someone else did something similar a few years ago and they were pretty popular. |
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Also,as an aside, I know a lot of people are assuming it is "Century's fault" the Zastava 308's were not imported.
I can tell you that dealing with foreign companies, their production abilities, and negotiating a contract with them can be...laborious....even in the best of times. That does not even include fun things like getting import approval from Uncle Sam- it could very easily be that they are still waiting on import approval. Century is in the business of importing guns and making money, and I am pretty sure if they could get those guns from the factory and bring them in at a price that would sell they would. Zastava has been running full out just to keep up with the PAP stuff from what I knwo (that is why we see them in batches) and it may be as simple as Zastava does not have the production capability to make the 308's and everything else at the same time....and if the PAP pistols are selling as fast as they can be made, it would not make sense to tear down the production line on a proven seller just to start selling another gun that is as of yet unproven in the market. |
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I will say, it always is interesting to me to see the consumer point of view vs. the manufacturer point of view in the marketplace. (I have been and still am on both ends of it)
They can be very similar and very different at times. 
...and I hope you guys don't mind me sharing the "manufacturer's point of view" in these threads. I personally think it is good for a potential buyer to understand things from that point of view, just as it is important for a manufacturer to understand the buyer's point of view. One of the reasons I pop into a thread like this and read through all of it is quite often I can learn a bit about what potential buyers are thinking and it helps me understand the marketplace better. 
Sven Manticore Arms |
| I would easily drop $2000 on an SVD. The closest thing I have right now is a tricked out my 2 tricked out M77s with LPS scopse and SVD flash hiders on them. I wanted Zastava to import the M91, but they are doing their own American AK thing which is "meh" and killed that deal. I had the chance to get a Tigr 5 years ago for $2500 and I could not float the cash and I regret it every day. PSLs are cool, but not worth the money I would rather have a M77 or Vepr because the accuracy for me was not there. I don't see why Bulgaria, Serbia, or Poland could not import an SVD thru Aresenal or Radom even if it was a parts kit. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How long until someone makes an SVD? (Page 1 of 2)
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