AK Sponsor
Posted: 3/12/2014 10:16:22 PM EDT
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Assuming price is no object, would you rather have a Krebs or a Rifle Dynamics (or a third source) AK?
I already have an O PAP and a M92 pap pistol. Im just curious. If youre response is 'my wasr is good enough for me' please just shut up and move along. Im only asking people who have experience with the finer things in life 
Nothing against wasr's but I already have my 'low budget' AK needs met and am now just teasing myself. 
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Mike Friend, who owns The Firing Line in Oklahoma is definitely one to consider. He's a respected builder who manufactures his own milled receivers....the only one in the country who does too, I believe. He's built 3 rifles for me to date, and they are all meticulously built, with attention taken to every detail. He does keep rifles in inventory for sale on a regular basis.
I suggest you at least visit his website. Phillip |
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Mike Friend, who owns The Firing Line in Oklahoma is definitely one to consider. He's a respected builder who manufactures his own milled receivers....the only one in the country who does too, I believe. He's built 3 rifles for me to date, and they are all meticulously built, with attention taken to every detail. He does keep rifles in inventory for sale on a regular basis. I suggest you at least visit his website. Phillip I cant see any inventory for the firing line. When I click to see "AK's for sale' I get this Im on the waiting list for a KV-13. The estimate that Shannon gave me is that my rifle would be ready in May or June. |
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I cant see any inventory for the firing line. When I click to see "AK's for sale' I get this Im on the waiting list for a KV-13. The estimate that Shannon gave me is that my rifle would be ready in May or June. Quoted:
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Mike Friend, who owns The Firing Line in Oklahoma is definitely one to consider. He's a respected builder who manufactures his own milled receivers....the only one in the country who does too, I believe. He's built 3 rifles for me to date, and they are all meticulously built, with attention taken to every detail. He does keep rifles in inventory for sale on a regular basis. I suggest you at least visit his website. Phillip I cant see any inventory for the firing line. When I click to see "AK's for sale' I get this Im on the waiting list for a KV-13. The estimate that Shannon gave me is that my rifle would be ready in May or June. AKs for sale |
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OP what specifically are you looking for in a high end ak? Are you wanting a custom tactical ak, an exact replica, or just a well built ak? I already have a well built AK that is reliable and fun, this would strictly be for bragging rights lol. Just kidding. I just like convenience, so things like the Krebs safety, the sights Krebs includes...etc. |
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Quoted: Assuming price is no object, would you rather have a Krebs or a Rifle Dynamics (or a third source) AK? I already have an O PAP and a M92 pap pistol. Im just curious. If youre response is 'my wasr is good enough for me' please just shut up and move along. Im only asking people who have experience with the finer things in life Nothing against wasr's but I already have my 'low budget' AK needs met and am now just teasing myself. On this forum you're supposed to get both
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3 people now have voted for this. What does it mean? Quoted:
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Turbo re-weld or go home. 3 people now have voted for this. What does it mean? turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: 
After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: 
Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. 
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turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg Quoted:
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Turbo re-weld or go home. 3 people now have voted for this. What does it mean? turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg
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Quoted: turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg Quoted: turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg  |
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turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg Quoted:
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Turbo re-weld or go home. 3 people now have voted for this. What does it mean? turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg Now that is an AK. This whole thread started by asking a question about a "High End AK", and then immediately headed south by mentioning Krebs, Jim Fuller, etc. Those aren't 'high end' AK's in any way, and are made for the same crowd that buys two-thousand dollar custom 1911's. They'll never be worth anything more than what you paid for it. On the other hand, that re-weld authentic Russian Type II will never be cheaper than it is today. If you're talking about 'High End" AK's, it doesn't get much 'higher' than that Type II. I really don't understand the fascination for these make-believe "operator-inspired" AK's from RDynamics & Krebs. I'll take that Type II any day of that week and twice on Sundays. Sorry if this chaps anyone's hide, but with MTK in the ground, someone needs to represent  .
-Thirtycal |
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Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg My god that's beautiful! Agree with the post above...that Type II is more valuable than any RD or Krebs creation. |
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turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg Quoted:
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Turbo re-weld or go home. 3 people now have voted for this. What does it mean? turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg $? |
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Turbo re-weld or go home. 3 people now have voted for this. What does it mean? turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg $? Paid $1200 for the kit in 2010. Build was about $400. I could sell it easily these days for a huge profit... but I won't be  it would probably sell fast for $2500 or so.
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Now that is an AK. This whole thread started by asking a question about a "High End AK", and then immediately headed south by mentioning Krebs, Jim Fuller, etc. Those aren't 'high end' AK's in any way, and are made for the same crowd that buys two-thousand dollar custom 1911's. They'll never be worth anything more than what you paid for it. On the other hand, that re-weld authentic Russian Type II will never be cheaper than it is today. If you're talking about 'High End" AK's, it doesn't get much 'higher' than that Type II. I really don't understand the fascination for these make-believe "operator-inspired" AK's from RDynamics & Krebs. I'll take that Type II any day of that week and twice on Sundays. Sorry if this chaps anyone's hide, but with MTK in the ground, someone needs to represent .
-Thirtycal Quoted:
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Turbo re-weld or go home. 3 people now have voted for this. What does it mean? turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg Now that is an AK. This whole thread started by asking a question about a "High End AK", and then immediately headed south by mentioning Krebs, Jim Fuller, etc. Those aren't 'high end' AK's in any way, and are made for the same crowd that buys two-thousand dollar custom 1911's. They'll never be worth anything more than what you paid for it. On the other hand, that re-weld authentic Russian Type II will never be cheaper than it is today. If you're talking about 'High End" AK's, it doesn't get much 'higher' than that Type II. I really don't understand the fascination for these make-believe "operator-inspired" AK's from RDynamics & Krebs. I'll take that Type II any day of that week and twice on Sundays. Sorry if this chaps anyone's hide, but with MTK in the ground, someone needs to represent .
-Thirtycal You dont like $2k+ 1911's? I get the 'nostalgia' feel of a collectors item. However, I never plan on selling any of my guns except maybe my Sig 220 X6 because as awesome as it is, regular 220 SAO's are 98% as awesome. With that said, what does a 'authentic Russian Type II' have that a O-pap or even a Krebs KV-13 doesnt? FYI im still pretty new to AK obviously. What exactly does the reweld accomplish? |
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You dont like $2k+ 1911's? I get the 'nostalgia' feel of a collectors item. However, I never plan on selling any of my guns except maybe my Sig 220 X6 because as awesome as it is, regular 220 SAO's are 98% as awesome. With that said, what does a 'authentic Russian Type II' have that a O-pap or even a Krebs KV-13 doesnt? FYI im still pretty new to AK obviously. What exactly does the reweld accomplish? Quoted:
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Turbo re-weld or go home. 3 people now have voted for this. What does it mean? turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg Now that is an AK. This whole thread started by asking a question about a "High End AK", and then immediately headed south by mentioning Krebs, Jim Fuller, etc. Those aren't 'high end' AK's in any way, and are made for the same crowd that buys two-thousand dollar custom 1911's. They'll never be worth anything more than what you paid for it. On the other hand, that re-weld authentic Russian Type II will never be cheaper than it is today. If you're talking about 'High End" AK's, it doesn't get much 'higher' than that Type II. I really don't understand the fascination for these make-believe "operator-inspired" AK's from RDynamics & Krebs. I'll take that Type II any day of that week and twice on Sundays. Sorry if this chaps anyone's hide, but with MTK in the ground, someone needs to represent .
-Thirtycal You dont like $2k+ 1911's? I get the 'nostalgia' feel of a collectors item. However, I never plan on selling any of my guns except maybe my Sig 220 X6 because as awesome as it is, regular 220 SAO's are 98% as awesome. With that said, what does a 'authentic Russian Type II' have that a O-pap or even a Krebs KV-13 doesnt? FYI im still pretty new to AK obviously. What exactly does the reweld accomplish? 1) Way more work and skill goes into a reweld build than anything Kreb's or RD puts out 2) You cannot just go out and buy a Type 2 or an authentic looking Type 3 Right now, I could go pick up a Saiga and have 85%-90% of the work done that most "custom" outfits sell. Now, I'm not saying Kreb's or RD don't make a good gun, it's just that they're nowhere comparable to an authentic looking reweld of a classic Kalashnikov. |
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Now that is an AK. This whole thread started by asking a question about a "High End AK", and then immediately headed south by mentioning Krebs, Jim Fuller, etc. Those aren't 'high end' AK's in any way, and are made for the same crowd that buys two-thousand dollar custom 1911's. They'll never be worth anything more than what you paid for it. On the other hand, that re-weld authentic Russian Type II will never be cheaper than it is today. If you're talking about 'High End" AK's, it doesn't get much 'higher' than that Type II. I really don't understand the fascination for these make-believe "operator-inspired" AK's from RDynamics & Krebs. I'll take that Type II any day of that week and twice on Sundays. Sorry if this chaps anyone's hide, but with MTK in the ground, someone needs to represent .
-Thirtycal Quoted:
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Turbo re-weld or go home. 3 people now have voted for this. What does it mean? turbothis is is name of a builder who does re-weld builds. He basically takes a milled receiver parts kit and makes a new receiver for it by welding a new center section to the front and rear receiver stubs. Here is mine in kit form: http://i47.tinypic.com/wk5mrd.jpg After he re-welded it, before I matched the finish: http://i47.tinypic.com/2pyut84.jpg Here is the "final" pic after I got everything all matched and looking original. It's basically as close as one can get to having a Russian Type 2 AK in the US. All the original proof marks and serial number are still intact. All that had to be redone was the selector markings. If you are debating getting a krebs or RD, this probably isn't what you're looking for.. it's more of a collector thing. http://i50.tinypic.com/33ua3b8.jpg Now that is an AK. This whole thread started by asking a question about a "High End AK", and then immediately headed south by mentioning Krebs, Jim Fuller, etc. Those aren't 'high end' AK's in any way, and are made for the same crowd that buys two-thousand dollar custom 1911's. They'll never be worth anything more than what you paid for it. On the other hand, that re-weld authentic Russian Type II will never be cheaper than it is today. If you're talking about 'High End" AK's, it doesn't get much 'higher' than that Type II. I really don't understand the fascination for these make-believe "operator-inspired" AK's from RDynamics & Krebs. I'll take that Type II any day of that week and twice on Sundays. Sorry if this chaps anyone's hide, but with MTK in the ground, someone needs to represent .
-Thirtycal This, completely. When I think "high-end" AK's I immediately think of Turbothis rewelds, or clones put out by POHF, Ted Marshal, or Two Rivers. The tactical Saiga conversions and franken kit builds are just that, and nothing more. Sure, some of them look pretty sweet, and I'm not against having a tricked out AK (I have one myself), but they can't hold a candle to the classics. |
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Ok so the amount of work put into them and that consumers cant just up and buy them are differences, Ill grant you. Does a Type 2 do anything that an O-pap cant? Nope, not really. Just like a rifle dynamics $2k+ AK can't do anything an OPAP can't do. My type 2 is a collector thing. There is maybe a couple hundred of them in the US. You're either into it or you aren't, no big deal. Just like some guys want a $2k custom 1911 while other guys would rather spend the same money on an all original WW2 surplus 1911. |
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To the OP...
In the past, I have owned "high end" AK rifles built by Rifle Dynamics and Troy Sellars. Both were excellent rifles but I did favor the Rifle Dynamics over the Troy Sellars build. The RD exhibited high levels of workmanship in that it had no sharp edges anywhere to be found, and the rear sight modification (which you can do yourself with a file) was also nice. Both rifles were built on NoDak receivers, and that to me was their flaw. I absolutely do not like an AK rifle to have a US made receiver. Its not that the NoDak receiver isn't nice, because it is. Its just a pet peave of mine in that I hate looking at one of my AK rifles and seeing a bunch of writing that basically translates to "This is not built in a foreign military factory". So, both of those rifles have been traded away, leaving me with less expensive rifles instead. I don't feel that enough was gained by the costs of the above mentioned rifles to recommend them over other AK rifles for anyone other than a collector. |
| I have a Krebs Speedload ,catalog #88 and its beautifull. Everything has been worked smooth, finish is outstanding, trigger is awesome, etc ad nauseum. I would highly recommend them, but I typically like my AKs modernized, however that Type II gives me a chubby in the worst way. Im going to have to save my pennies and start funding one for myself. I havent had any hands on expierience with an RD but they seem to be highly reguarded and any dealings/conversations Ive had with them were always pleasant and professional and would have to qualms spending my money with them when the time comes (probably going to have them work over an N-pap for me). Granted my Krebs doesnt do anything my wasr wont, I feel the fit/finish and upgrades on the krebs are well worth it. As with anything YMMV |
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Ok so the amount of work put into them and that consumers cant just up and buy them are differences, Ill grant you. Does a Type 2 do anything that an O-pap cant? yes. It can be as original to the design as possible (type 1 excluded for conversation purposes). It's also built with 1950's Soviet made parts - usually all of them with the exception of the re-weld area. Does a KAC SR-15 do anything a DPMS oracle can't?.... see where I'm going here (assume your from the AR side) An O-PAP is a clone if you will of a Yugoslavian M70. If you wanted to have one of the better Yugo models - you can get a re-weld of a Yugo M64 kit. like this 
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To the OP... In the past, I have owned "high end" AK rifles built by Rifle Dynamics and Troy Sellars. Both were excellent rifles but I did favor the Rifle Dynamics over the Troy Sellars build. The RD exhibited high levels of workmanship in that it had no sharp edges anywhere to be found, and the rear sight modification (which you can do yourself with a file) was also nice. Both rifles were built on NoDak receivers, and that to me was their flaw. I absolutely do not like an AK rifle to have a US made receiver. Its not that the NoDak receiver isn't nice, because it is. Its just a pet peave of mine in that I hate looking at one of my AK rifles and seeing a bunch of writing that basically translates to "This is not built in a foreign military factory". So, both of those rifles have been traded away, leaving me with less expensive rifles instead. I don't feel that enough was gained by the costs of the above mentioned rifles to recommend them over other AK rifles for anyone other than a collector. Ohhhh ok. I think I understand now |
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To the OP... In the past, I have owned "high end" AK rifles built by Rifle Dynamics and Troy Sellars. Both were excellent rifles but I did favor the Rifle Dynamics over the Troy Sellars build. The RD exhibited high levels of workmanship in that it had no sharp edges anywhere to be found, and the rear sight modification (which you can do yourself with a file) was also nice. Both rifles were built on NoDak receivers, and that to me was their flaw. I absolutely do not like an AK rifle to have a US made receiver. Its not that the NoDak receiver isn't nice, because it is. Its just a pet peave of mine in that I hate looking at one of my AK rifles and seeing a bunch of writing that basically translates to "This is not built in a foreign military factory". So, both of those rifles have been traded away, leaving me with less expensive rifles instead. I don't feel that enough was gained by the costs of the above mentioned rifles to recommend them over other AK rifles for anyone other than a collector. Both Rifle Dynamics and Krebs Customs have production rifles based on Russian barrels and receivers. We know the Saiga is the basis for RD501 and RD701 and the Vepr is the basis for KV-13, but they are not trying to build Russian rifle clones... |
| There is a nice SLR100 for sale on the EE right now. I have almost the exact same rifle and you could not ask for a better AK. These have the Arsenal receiver on a pristine matching numbers 1953 Hungarian milled kit: done RIGHT! You have to experience shooting one to understand what I'm talking about...and that seller says his is "unfired"...? There are MANY great high end AKs out there...starting with the phenominal Archer mentioned earlier, the Valmet's, the Polytech Legends, many variations of the Arsenal milled models...all good. Nothing wrong with a Krebs, or the good builds and many other customs... but if money were no problem #1 I'd get a milled Valmet, an IMI Galil or a Swiss SANS SIG 550...Then you really got something. |
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Both Rifle Dynamics and Krebs Customs have production rifles based on Russian barrels and receivers. We know the Saiga is the basis for RD501 and RD701 and the Vepr is the basis for KV-13, but they are not trying to build Russian rifle clones... I understand what you mean, but my intent is to comment only on the rifles I have personally owned, rather than on every rifle produced by a particular manufacturer/custom shop. Both my RD, and the Troy Sellars build were of very high quality. The RD in particular was so smooth in operation, had a great finish, had no sharp edges, and for some reason felt lighter than other rifles of similar configuration. In the end, both my RD and the Sellars rifle were built from kits using US receivers. Although the quality of the US receiver is undoubtedly high... I just can't stand the sight of the US made stuff on my Kalashnikov rifles. For that reason alone, I figured it wasn't worth having such expensive rifles that I wasn't one hundred percent happy with. Perhaps I would have felt differently if my RD had been built on a Saiga. I know that I am liking my home built Saiga 5.45 better than either of the above mentioned rifles although I will admit that my Saiga is a lot rougher around the edges than the RD. |
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