AK Sponsor
Posted: 6/26/2009 1:49:57 AM EDT
The same problems seem to be recurring themes so how about a FAP? (Frequently Asked Problems ) I'll kick it off:
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– Problem: Cases not ejecting, stovepipes. Cause: One common problem is the ejector is not bent to spec. It may be positioned too low for it to hit the shell casing and eject it. Solution: Slide the bolt carrier back so the ejector just emerges from the bolt face. Wiggle the bolt to see if the ejector can possibly ride the bottom of the slot in the bolt. If so, use a crescent wrench to bend up the ejector so that it rides at the top of the slot, where it will make full contact with the case. –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– Problem: Rounds, especially HP rounds, are getting snagged while feeding. Cause: AKs weren't really designed to shoot HP rounds. The ledge in front of the mag well can cause the HP rounds to hang up. Solution: Carefully grind the ledge down and bevel it: 
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– Problem: Bolt won't close with a round in the chamber Cause: The century monkeys probably messed up your headspacing Solution: Send it back for them to fix or if you're feeling brave, you can grind down the back of your lugs if it's just a small amount. |
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Problem: Bolt won't close with a round in the chamber Cause: The century monkeys probably messed up your headspacing Solution: Send it back for them to fix or if you're feeling brave, you can grind down the back of your lugs if it's just a small amount. Headspace is not the only cause of this problem, and grinding on the bolt lugs is NEVER the solution to a headspace problem. 
If you're going to give advice, try not to give advice which, if followed, might get someone hurt. 
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I have to agree with the "grinding on the bolt lugs is NEVER the solution to a headspace problem" statement. +1 Not sure I like that suggestion, either. Sorry if you guys don't like it but I had that problem with a Century RPK, took it to a local gunsmith, he suggested that. I wasn't comfortable with it so I just sent it back to Century to see what they would do and that's what they did. The FOS on AK lugs is pretty high, there is room to remove material, even if you're not comfortable with the idea. |
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Sorry if you guys don't like it but I had that problem with a Century RPK, took it to a local gunsmith, he suggested that. I wasn't comfortable with it so I just sent it back to Century to see what they would do and that's what they did. The FOS on AK lugs is pretty high, there is room to remove material, even if you're not comfortable with the idea. Since I'm not a lemming, I decline to follow your local gunsmith or anyone else over the cliff.
It's impractical to grind the lugs perfectly flat, and it's impractical to take the exact amount off both lugs. As a result it's quite likely that the lugs won't engage the trunnion properly. If the grind job is off enough, only one lug will engage. That can result in a KB. 
The difference between proper headspace and excessive headspace is about .005". I wouldn't trust anyone wielding a grinder to be that exact. |
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If the Century Monkies did it it must be okay right?? Headspacing should be adjusted with the barrel. Not saying Century makes it right. I'm saying between multiple gunsmiths suggesting doing just this, and my ME degree, I'm certain shaving down .005" off the bolt will not cause any issues. True it may not be a good idea if the person doesn't know what they are doing and shaves down too much or coarsely grinds it down creating stress risers, but using reamers is not much safer so that's why the first suggestions is to send it back. YMMV |
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Sorry if you guys don't like it but I had that problem with a Century RPK, took it to a local gunsmith, he suggested that. I wasn't comfortable with it so I just sent it back to Century to see what they would do and that's what they did. The FOS on AK lugs is pretty high, there is room to remove material, even if you're not comfortable with the idea. Since I'm not a lemming, I decline to follow your local gunsmith or anyone else over the cliff.
It's impractical to grind the lugs perfectly flat, and it's impractical to take the exact amount off both lugs. As a result it's quite likely that the lugs won't engage the trunnion properly. If the grind job is off enough, only one lug will engage. That can result in a KB.
The difference between proper headspace and excessive headspace is about .005". I wouldn't trust anyone wielding a grinder to be that exact. Umm... no. The bolt is self leveling. It's a freaking AK, have you ever touched one? Notice the loose tolerances and the way the bolt wiggles around in the carrier? When the bolt closes, it is free to pitch/yaw slight amounts making sure both lugs are seated even if not spaced exactly the same. Have you ever taken a caliper to various AK bolts? Do you think they are machined to the exact same dimensions? If an AK were so demanding as you suggest, every garage build would have KB'd by now. And if anybody still thinks the lugs are in danger of being sheared off, take a close look at the trunnion and how little metal is supporting the lugs. Where do you think the weak link in this chain is? Like I said, the bolt is overbuilt. |
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"My boltcarrier hangs up when in the rearward position."
This is common with the AK47 and will crop up less over time and use. The bolt carrier and bolt body are being help up by the spring loaded hammer. It is also common with many types of fire control groups so there is nothing wrong with yours. This might be a good candidate for a sticky but encouraging garage gunsmiths to grind on locking lugs is a terrible idea. Just because Century does it does not make it safe or correct. You end up with things like dremel fluting when somebody without the knowhow attempts something they should never do. |
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I shouldnt rag on you too much  I did the same thing to my old WASR about a year ago. It fixed the problem and i called it quits. A friend of mine as all of the proper equipment now for head spacing and we both have gauges.
I just highly dont recommend it  I don't highly recommend it either but it is an option and if you have a chome lined barrel, perhaps the best option. The arguments against it have been mostly based on emotion. Such is ARFCOM. If mods want to edit this out to make a sticky though, that's fine with me. |
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pam is a nitpicker. she trolls the threads looking for things to bitch about.
we went round and round on headspace issues. a member asked about a backup bolt for his ak. if the gun was built right and headspaced correctly when built a purchsed bolt would likely be ok. i've never even heard of an ak exploding from the bolt being changed out. i told him that if it looks ok to throw it in and try it, as all of mine interchange without problems, pam threw a shit fit. my gunsmith told me that he has never checked headspace on an ar15 or had a headspace issue, she had a hissy fit on that one too. we all know that headspace on an ar15 is not even fixable, it's done at the factory when the barrel extension is installed on the barrel. now, in another thread she's telling me that dimples don't stabilize the mags on an ak that it's the magwell opening. blah blah blah, Edited...VA-gunnut |
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now, in another thread she's telling me that dimples don't stabilize the mags on an ak that it's the magwell opening. blah blah blah, Edited...VA-gunnut. I have never seen dimples that touch the mag, can you post pics? +1 None of my AK's touch the dimples. |
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here are pics of a romanian mgfr. romak2 with original doublestack receiver, and a polish akm built on an nds1. both have abrasian marks on the dimples and the polish akm has a very tight magwell. you can see on the romanian which is quite used that the markings are on the dimples and the lower rail. the polish gun only has a couple hundred rounds downrange and it was gunkoted over park so it's finish is a little tougher than the romanain phosphated finish.     |
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[I don't highly recommend it either but it is an option and if you have a chome lined barrel, perhaps the best option. Don't you think it's odd that NONE of the kits have had the headspace set by the use of what you call the "best option"?
There is only one way to set headspace on an AK. Here's a hint: It doesn't involve a reamer. Here's another hint: It involves the barrel pin. |
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pam is a nitpicker. she trolls the threads looking for things to bitch about. we went round and round on headspace issues. a member asked about a backup bolt for his ak. if the gun was built right and headspaced correctly when built a purchsed bolt would likely be ok. i've never even heard of an ak exploding from the bolt being changed out. i told him that if it looks ok to throw it in and try it, as all of mine interchange without problems, pam threw a shit fit. my gunsmith told me that he has never checked headspace on an ar15 or had a headspace issue, she had a hissy fit on that one too. we all know that headspace on an ar15 is not even fixable, it's done at the factory when the barrel extension is installed on the barrel. I do try to keep people who don't know what they're talking about from giving "advice" that can get someone hurt. And as I recall, a gunsmith who's a member here and who has built many AKs and ARs told you that anyone who doesn't check the headspace on either rifle when changing a bolt is a "fool and a hack". Have you forgotten that already?
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Sorry if you guys don't like it but I had that problem with a Century RPK, took it to a local gunsmith, he suggested that. I wasn't comfortable with it so I just sent it back to Century to see what they would do and that's what they did. The FOS on AK lugs is pretty high, there is room to remove material, even if you're not comfortable with the idea. Since I'm not a lemming, I decline to follow your local gunsmith or anyone else over the cliff.
It's impractical to grind the lugs perfectly flat, and it's impractical to take the exact amount off both lugs. As a result it's quite likely that the lugs won't engage the trunnion properly. If the grind job is off enough, only one lug will engage. That can result in a KB.
The difference between proper headspace and excessive headspace is about .005". I wouldn't trust anyone wielding a grinder to be that exact. Umm... no. The bolt is self leveling. It's a freaking AK, have you ever touched one? Notice the loose tolerances and the way the bolt wiggles around in the carrier? When the bolt closes, it is free to pitch/yaw slight amounts making sure both lugs are seated even if not spaced exactly the same. Have you ever taken a caliper to various AK bolts? Do you think they are machined to the exact same dimensions? If an AK were so demanding as you suggest, every garage build would have KB'd by now. And if anybody still thinks the lugs are in danger of being sheared off, take a close look at the trunnion and how little metal is supporting the lugs. Where do you think the weak link in this chain is? Like I said, the bolt is overbuilt. Red flags up the wazoo. If you suspect a headspace issue get a set of headspace gauges and test it. If it is close but still too tight "lube" the bolt lugs and trunnion in a valve grinding compound or JB bore compound. Hand cycle the action while feeding dummy rounds. If you don't have dummy rounds take it to a range point it in a safe direction and hand cycle live ammo. DO NOT lube with grinding compound and FIRE. You will blow grinding compound into your trigger group.a This does 2 things. 1. It removes material of both the trunnion and bolt in thousandths or tenths of thousandths. 2. It laps the mating surface of the bolt lugs to match the trunnion causing you to GAIN bearing surface for the lug. ETA: This is NOT a fix for parts that are surfaced hardened as this may remove the hardened layer of material. The problem in you OP most of the time caused by the trigger group. The fix is to Lap/Polish the hammer and bolt carrier where they rub. You may need to remove a small amount of material from the hump in the hammer. In general an AK in this condition just needs a couple hundred rounds break in or a light "fluff and buff." |
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now, in another thread she's telling me that dimples don't stabilize the mags on an ak that it's the magwell opening. blah blah blah, Edited...VA-gunnut. I have never seen dimples that touch the mag, can you post pics? Some people are not aware that the magazine often comes in contact with the inside of the dimples as the magazine is inserted (because it isn't always perfectly perpendicular to the receiver). Those same people are not aware of which the parts of the receiver are in contact with the magazine when it's seated in the receiver. lambo is one of those people. Therefore when he sees marks on the inside of the receiver which indicate that the magazine has been in contact with the "dimples" he draws the wrong conclusion. Since the incorrect concept has been repeated thousands of times on the innernet, it's unlikely that many will ever get it right. |
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pam is a nitpicker. she trolls the threads looking for things to bitch about. we went round and round on headspace issues. a member asked about a backup bolt for his ak. if the gun was built right and headspaced correctly when built a purchsed bolt would likely be ok. i've never even heard of an ak exploding from the bolt being changed out. i told him that if it looks ok to throw it in and try it, as all of mine interchange without problems, pam threw a shit fit. my gunsmith told me that he has never checked headspace on an ar15 or had a headspace issue, she had a hissy fit on that one too. we all know that headspace on an ar15 is not even fixable, it's done at the factory when the barrel extension is installed on the barrel. I do try to keep people who don't know what they're talking about from giving "advice" that can get someone hurt. And as I recall, a gunsmith who's a member here and who has built many AKs and ARs told you that anyone who doesn't check the headspace on either rifle when changing a bolt is a "fool and a hack". Have you forgotten that already?
+1 on Poly. I have a DPMS bolt that is .004-.006 (cheap mic) longer than my RRA bolt, it would be a good fix if I ever run a little long on headspace. By the time I'm at that point though the throat of my barrel should be about gone. |
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now, in another thread she's telling me that dimples don't stabilize the mags on an ak that it's the magwell opening. blah blah blah, Edited...VA-gunnut. I have never seen dimples that touch the mag, can you post pics? Some people are not aware that the magazine often comes in contact with the inside of the dimples as the magazine is inserted (because it isn't always perfectly perpendicular to the receiver). Those same people are not aware of which the parts of the receiver are in contact with the magazine when it's seated in the receiver. lambo is one of those people. Therefore when he sees marks on the inside of the receiver which indicate that the magazine has been in contact with the "dimples" he draws the wrong conclusion. Since the incorrect concept has been repeated thousands of times on the innernet, it's unlikely that many will ever get it right. Stupid people will look for advice that backs up their claim, smart people look for opposing advise and test it. Smart generous people post results. |
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we went round and round on headspace issues. a member asked about a backup bolt for his ak. if the gun was built right and headspaced correctly when built a purchsed bolt would likely be ok. i've never even heard of an ak exploding from the bolt being changed out. i told him that if it looks ok to throw it in and try it, as all of mine interchange without problems, pam threw a shit fit. In the history of semi-auto rifles, there has never been more cobbled franken-guns made with mismatched and/or homemade parts than the AK. Somehow they still manage to work. Some people confuse anal-retentiveness with being smart. |
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Notice the loose tolerances and the way the bolt wiggles around in the carrier? I don't think that anyone who doesn't know the difference between "tolerence" and "clearance" should give advice about anything as critical as headspace. 
Funny how when proven wrong about a subject, some people will resort to misguided pedantry to change the subject. Here's a question Pam, when you have a rifle that shoots sub-MOA, do you say that it's an accurate rifle, or a precise one? One term is the technically correct way to describe the rifle, but the other is still commonly acceptable usage in conversation. A better statement would be, anybody that is so clueless to the operations of AKs, such as thinking the bolt lugs have to be on spec within .005" or else only one will carry the load and KB, ought not trying to pretend he's an expert in the field. And what is your background BTW if you are questioning people's credentials? |
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Notice the loose tolerances and the way the bolt wiggles around in the carrier? I don't think that anyone who doesn't know the difference between "tollerence" and "clearance" should give advice about anything as critical as headspace.
Funny how when proven wrong about a subject, some people will resort to misguided pedantry to change the subject. Here's a question Pam, when you have a rifle that shoots sub-MOA, do you say that it's an accurate rifle, or a precise one? One term is the technically correct way to describe the rifle, but the other is still commonly acceptable usage in conversation. A better statement would be, anybody that is so clueless to the operations of AKs, such as thinking the bolt lugs have to be on spec within .005" or else only one will carry the load and KB, ought not trying to pretend he's an expert in the field. And what is your background BTW if you are questioning people's credentials? What's your background? The first sign that you have no clue is when you state all AK's are the same so why worry about tolerances and clearances. Any shmuck can go online and learn how to toss together a kit and make it go bang. I own a gunsmith business that builds AK's as it's primary income. Sure + or - .005 here and there is fine on someones garage build, but when you are a small shop it's all about quality, quality and guess what, Quality. It's the only way to compete with a company like Century that pumps out mediocre AK's in that kind of volume at $500 a pop. I've sold $1000 AK's a hundred times with this simple demo. I go to the range with 2-3 Century AK's in different flavors and 2-3 of my own built AK's, I then offer to let people shoot them. People say WOW about the Century especially if they are not an EBR person. They look at the better finish and wood on my AK's and ask. I just tell them to go ahead and try it. The look on there face is night and day, they know where that extra $500 of work went. I've made more sales at gun ranges than at gunshows and online adds combined. Mate the lugs to the trunnion, lap the bolt carrier to match the rails, shorten bolt tail so its not slamming the rear trunnion, mill the hump in the hammer so there is less friction, use a proper jig for pressing rivets, make sure to degrease with mineral spirits before applying any kind of finish. This list is just little common sense a lot more is trade secrets that only we do. A well built AK is smooth, charges like a pneumatic piston, has no trigger slap and a 3-4 lbs pull with short takeup and overtravel (lighter upon request), felt recoil will be less due to a two stage bolt return springs (no cheap buffer needed), The stock will be longer for the Americanized shooting stance, bolts and carriers get chromed or even TIN, DB or plain park depending on customer request. Sights are trued to the barrel so you don't get that Century post on one side of the hood. Barrels are crowned, finishes can be anything from park to powder coat, and plating. Knowing what and where to cut to add channels to divert grime and fouling. When all this is done right you have an AK that not only works but works better and is even more reliable and accurate when covered in dirt, mud and sand than any Century build is when it's bran new out of the box. Is any of that work even needed to make an AK function? Hell no. But it sure as shit makes them work better. Bottom line. If your going to do something you might as well do it right, especially if your lively hood is riding on it. |
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A better statement would be, anybody that is so clueless to the operations of AKs, such as thinking the bolt lugs have to be on spec within .005" or else only one will carry the load and KB, ought not trying to pretend he's an expert in the field. Reading comprehension is key. I never made any statement about the specifications of the bolt lugs. I posted that the difference between proper headspace and excessive headspace is about .005". That's the difference in OAL of Chinese made gauges used to check headspace in new rifles. East German gauges have a smaller difference in OAL. You have certainly revealed the "depth" of your knowledge on the topic when you cannot distinguish the difference between headspace and specifications for a bolt. Or perhaps you think that is just a matter of semantics as well.
In any case, I'm confident that most people reading this thread can figure out that they should not follow your advice and take a grinder to the bolt lugs, so I have fulfilled my purpose. 
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here are pics of a romanian mgfr. romak2 with original doublestack receiver, and a polish akm built on an nds1. both have abrasian marks on the dimples and the polish akm has a very tight magwell. you can see on the romanian which is quite used that the markings are on the dimples and the lower rail. the polish gun only has a couple hundred rounds downrange and it was gunkoted over park so it's finish is a little tougher than the romanain phosphated finish. http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/badka2ma/100_0883.jpg http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/badka2ma/100_0884.jpg http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/badka2ma/100_0890.jpg http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq293/badka2ma/100_0892.jpg Unfortunately, your pics show that the mags contact the sheet metal rails and not the dimples. |
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[I don't highly recommend it either but it is an option and if you have a chome lined barrel, perhaps the best option. Don't you think it's odd that NONE of the kits have had the headspace set by the use of what you call the "best option"?
There is only one way to set headspace on an AK. Here's a hint: It doesn't involve a reamer. Here's another hint: It involves the barrel pin. Well look at the brains on Pam eh? Of course if you are going to remove the barrel from the trunnion anyways in building from a kit, it's better to set the headspace when mating the 2 back up. It seems because that's the way it's usually done, people get into the habit of thinking that's the only way to do it. How about some critical thinking though? Why should a person not grind (maybe I shouldn't use that word, sounds like you are taking it to a bench grinder).. resize the lugs instead of your method? Nobody has given a good reason other than their emotional reaction to the idea. Your argument of unequal loading of the lugs has already been shown to be erroneous. The "best option" however completely changes when the gun has been finished. Anybody that is capable of going back, pressing/punching out the barrel pin (god forbid he has a Romanian G kit), moving the press fit barrel in the trunnion to the correct headspace, resizing barrel pin hole, pressing in an oversized barrel pin in, etc... is capable of resizing the lugs so that it functions without issue. The only difference is your "accepted" traditional way is a hell of a lot more trouble, arguably is more likely to result in damaging the gun, and requires a lot more tools. |
| Even though some bolt lugs peen, it may have already been stated that contact surfaces on most factory Kalashnikov rifles are surface hardened. There is another problem with grinding the bolt lugs, it is quite dificult to grind material on, if the headspace is too tight, a round will not even chamber, if the headspace is too loose a round will chamber and when fired may have enough casing un supported to cuase a serious safety concern. |
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[I don't highly recommend it either but it is an option and if you have a chome lined barrel, perhaps the best option. Don't you think it's odd that NONE of the kits have had the headspace set by the use of what you call the "best option"?
There is only one way to set headspace on an AK. Here's a hint: It doesn't involve a reamer. Here's another hint: It involves the barrel pin. Well look at the brains on Pam eh? Of course if you are going to remove the barrel from the trunnion anyways in building from a kit, it's better to set the headspace when mating the 2 back up. It seems because that's the way it's usually done, people get into the habit of thinking that's the only way to do it. How about some critical thinking though? Why should a person not grind (maybe I shouldn't use that word, sounds like you are taking it to a bench grinder).. resize the lugs instead of your method? Nobody has given a good reason other than their emotional reaction to the idea. Your argument of unequal loading of the lugs has already been shown to be erroneous. The "best option" however completely changes when the gun has been finished. Anybody that is capable of going back, pressing/punching out the barrel pin (god forbid he has a Romanian G kit), moving the press fit barrel in the trunnion to the correct headspace, resizing barrel pin hole, pressing in an oversized barrel pin in, etc... is capable of resizing the lugs so that it functions without issue. The only difference is your "accepted" traditional way is a hell of a lot more trouble, arguably is more likely to result in damaging the gun, and requires a lot more tools. Option 1 = The easy way Option 2 = The right way Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. |
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Notice the loose tolerances and the way the bolt wiggles around in the carrier? I don't think that anyone who doesn't know the difference between "tollerence" and "clearance" should give advice about anything as critical as headspace.
Funny how when proven wrong about a subject, some people will resort to misguided pedantry to change the subject. Here's a question Pam, when you have a rifle that shoots sub-MOA, do you say that it's an accurate rifle, or a precise one? One term is the technically correct way to describe the rifle, but the other is still commonly acceptable usage in conversation. A better statement would be, anybody that is so clueless to the operations of AKs, such as thinking the bolt lugs have to be on spec within .005" or else only one will carry the load and KB, ought not trying to pretend he's an expert in the field. And what is your background BTW if you are questioning people's credentials? What's your background? The first sign that you have no clue is when you state all AK's are the same so why worry about tolerances and clearances. Any shmuck can go online and learn how to toss together a kit and make it go bang. I own a gunsmith business that builds AK's as it's primary income. Sure + or - .005 here and there is fine on someones garage build, but when you are a small shop it's all about quality, quality and guess what, Quality. It's the only way to compete with a company like Century that pumps out mediocre AK's in that kind of volume at $500 a pop. I've sold $1000 AK's a hundred times with this simple demo. I go to the range with 2-3 Century AK's in different flavors and 2-3 of my own built AK's, I then offer to let people shoot them. People say WOW about the Century especially if they are not an EBR person. They look at the better finish and wood on my AK's and ask. I just tell them to go ahead and try it. The look on there face is night and day, they know where that extra $500 of work went. I've made more sales at gun ranges than at gunshows and online adds combined. Mate the lugs to the trunnion, lap the bolt carrier to match the rails, shorten bolt tail so its not slamming the rear trunnion, mill the hump in the hammer so there is less friction, use a proper jig for pressing rivets, make sure to degrease with mineral spirits before applying any kind of finish. This list is just little common sense a lot more is trade secrets that only we do. A well built AK is smooth, charges like a pneumatic piston, has no trigger slap and a 3-4 lbs pull with short takeup and overtravel (lighter upon request), felt recoil will be less due to a two stage bolt return springs (no cheap buffer needed), The stock will be longer for the Americanized shooting stance, bolts and carriers get chromed or even TIN, DB or plain park depending on customer request. Sights are trued to the barrel so you don't get that Century post on one side of the hood. Barrels are crowned, finishes can be anything from park to powder coat, and plating. Knowing what and where to cut to add channels to divert grime and fouling. When all this is done right you have an AK that not only works but works better and is even more reliable and accurate when covered in dirt, mud and sand than any Century build is when it's bran new out of the box. Is any of that work even needed to make an AK function? Hell no. But it sure as shit makes them work better. Bottom line. If your going to do something you might as well do it right, especially if your lively hood is riding on it.
Let's see, one sentence where you flat out lie about what I'm saying, and countless paragraphs about how great your guns are. Good for you, what's your point? Nobody is arguing about trying to finesse an AK. The argument is what works and doesn't work. I never said "all AK's are the same", nice try. My background as already mentioned is in mechanical engineering. That's great that you've built lots of guns. I've met plenty of people like you at gun shows. I take what they say with a grain of salt also. |
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Notice the loose tolerances and the way the bolt wiggles around in the carrier? I don't think that anyone who doesn't know the difference between "tollerence" and "clearance" should give advice about anything as critical as headspace.
Funny how when proven wrong about a subject, some people will resort to misguided pedantry to change the subject. Here's a question Pam, when you have a rifle that shoots sub-MOA, do you say that it's an accurate rifle, or a precise one? One term is the technically correct way to describe the rifle, but the other is still commonly acceptable usage in conversation. A better statement would be, anybody that is so clueless to the operations of AKs, such as thinking the bolt lugs have to be on spec within .005" or else only one will carry the load and KB, ought not trying to pretend he's an expert in the field. And what is your background BTW if you are questioning people's credentials? What's your background? The first sign that you have no clue is when you state all AK's are the same so why worry about tolerances and clearances. Any shmuck can go online and learn how to toss together a kit and make it go bang. I own a gunsmith business that builds AK's as it's primary income. Sure + or - .005 here and there is fine on someones garage build, but when you are a small shop it's all about quality, quality and guess what, Quality. It's the only way to compete with a company like Century that pumps out mediocre AK's in that kind of volume at $500 a pop. I've sold $1000 AK's a hundred times with this simple demo. I go to the range with 2-3 Century AK's in different flavors and 2-3 of my own built AK's, I then offer to let people shoot them. People say WOW about the Century especially if they are not an EBR person. They look at the better finish and wood on my AK's and ask. I just tell them to go ahead and try it. The look on there face is night and day, they know where that extra $500 of work went. I've made more sales at gun ranges than at gunshows and online adds combined. Mate the lugs to the trunnion, lap the bolt carrier to match the rails, shorten bolt tail so its not slamming the rear trunnion, mill the hump in the hammer so there is less friction, use a proper jig for pressing rivets, make sure to degrease with mineral spirits before applying any kind of finish. This list is just little common sense a lot more is trade secrets that only we do. A well built AK is smooth, charges like a pneumatic piston, has no trigger slap and a 3-4 lbs pull with short takeup and overtravel (lighter upon request), felt recoil will be less due to a two stage bolt return springs (no cheap buffer needed), The stock will be longer for the Americanized shooting stance, bolts and carriers get chromed or even TIN, DB or plain park depending on customer request. Sights are trued to the barrel so you don't get that Century post on one side of the hood. Barrels are crowned, finishes can be anything from park to powder coat, and plating. Knowing what and where to cut to add channels to divert grime and fouling. When all this is done right you have an AK that not only works but works better and is even more reliable and accurate when covered in dirt, mud and sand than any Century build is when it's bran new out of the box. Is any of that work even needed to make an AK function? Hell no. But it sure as shit makes them work better. Bottom line. If your going to do something you might as well do it right, especially if your lively hood is riding on it.
Let's see, one sentence where you flat out lie about what I'm saying, and countless paragraphs about how great your guns are. Good for you, what's your point? Nobody is arguing about trying to finesse an AK. The argument is what works and doesn't work. I never said "all AK's are the same", nice try. My background as already mentioned is in mechanical engineering. That's great that you've built lots of guns. I've met plenty of people like you at gun shows. I take what they say with a grain of salt also. Ok I'll tell you exactly what you want to hear. Gringing down your lugs to open up headspace is a perfectly acceptable fix if you disregard the possibility of grinding off the surface hardening and opening your headspace too much. Peace Out, and good luck, your gonna need it. |
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A better statement would be, anybody that is so clueless to the operations of AKs, such as thinking the bolt lugs have to be on spec within .005" or else only one will carry the load and KB, ought not trying to pretend he's an expert in the field. Reading comprehension is key. I never made any statement about the specifications of the bolt lugs. I posted that the difference between proper headspace and excessive headspace is about .005". That's the difference in OAL of Chinese made gauges used to check headspace in new rifles. East German gauges have a smaller difference in OAL. You have certainly revealed the "depth" of your knowledge on the topic when you cannot distinguish the difference between headspace and specifications for a bolt. Or perhaps you think that is just a matter of semantics as well.
I notice you didn't answer my questions 
That's quite a bit of spin there, if anybody's words reveal their understanding of the matter, it would be right here: Quoted:
It's impractical to grind the lugs perfectly flat, and it's impractical to take the exact amount off both lugs. As a result it's quite likely that the lugs won't engage the trunnion properly. If the grind job is off enough, only one lug will engage. That can result in a KB.
The difference between proper headspace and excessive headspace is about .005". I wouldn't trust anyone wielding a grinder to be that exact. 
In any case, I'm confident that most people reading this thread can figure out that they should not follow your advice and take a grinder to the bolt lugs, so I have fulfilled my purpose.
Oh the power you yield Rather sad if you feel a sense of purpose here.
BTW, Valmet gauges are almost 3x that amount. |
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[I don't highly recommend it either but it is an option and if you have a chome lined barrel, perhaps the best option. Don't you think it's odd that NONE of the kits have had the headspace set by the use of what you call the "best option"?
There is only one way to set headspace on an AK. Here's a hint: It doesn't involve a reamer. Here's another hint: It involves the barrel pin. Well look at the brains on Pam eh? Of course if you are going to remove the barrel from the trunnion anyways in building from a kit, it's better to set the headspace when mating the 2 back up. It seems because that's the way it's usually done, people get into the habit of thinking that's the only way to do it. How about some critical thinking though? Why should a person not grind (maybe I shouldn't use that word, sounds like you are taking it to a bench grinder).. resize the lugs instead of your method? Nobody has given a good reason other than their emotional reaction to the idea. Your argument of unequal loading of the lugs has already been shown to be erroneous. The "best option" however completely changes when the gun has been finished. Anybody that is capable of going back, pressing/punching out the barrel pin (god forbid he has a Romanian G kit), moving the press fit barrel in the trunnion to the correct headspace, resizing barrel pin hole, pressing in an oversized barrel pin in, etc... is capable of resizing the lugs so that it functions without issue. The only difference is your "accepted" traditional way is a hell of a lot more trouble, arguably is more likely to result in damaging the gun, and requires a lot more tools. Option 1 = The easy way Option 2 = The right way Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. So the right way to Mr Gunsmith is the way more likely to cause damage to the gun? You sound like the BrakeCheck guy that tells me I need to bleed the lines anytime I change the brake pads. |
| Mateba, I imagine you may have more success if you focused on disputing the statements and not the people making them. It is hard for me to read your text when it is fairly blatant you are after certain people posting as well as what they are saying, invest your time and energy in to the facts and disputing them, it will get you a lot further. This is college primer level argumentative skills. |
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Gringing down your lugs to open up headspace is a perfectly acceptable fix if you disregard the possibility of grinding off the surface hardening and opening your headspace too much. Where did anybody suggest forgoing the use of gauges to check the headspace after resizing? The same dangers of too much headspace exist any time you adjust it.
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Mateba, I imagine you may have more success if you focused on disputing the statements and not the people making them. It is hard for me to read your text when it is fairly blatant you are after certain people posting as well as what they are saying, invest your time and energy in to the facts and disputing them, it will get you a lot further. This is college primer level argumentative skills. If you're having trouble reading, it's probably from hypoxia up on that soap box. Come on down. If you read the thread again, you'll see I have never gone after the person unless they initiated it in turning things personal. It's always easier and safer to pounce on the person arguing against the conventional "wisdom" though isn't it? |
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What a friggen disaster this thread has turned into.
Mateba, that sad part is that your original intentions behind this thread were good. You wanted to try and help the members of the forum with some information. You then decided to get into pissing matches because people didn't agree with this statement: "Solution: ... if you're feeling brave, you can grind down the back of your lugs if it's just a small amount." So you admit that it is a risky proposition in your main post, but want to fight to the death with people saying it shouldn't be done.
Since this thread has strayed from it's original intent, I'm going to lock it. |
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