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Posted: 1/7/2009 6:37:42 PM EDT
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Do any of you put buffers in your toys to counter wear an tear or are they more trouble
than thier worth? |
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Ahhhh........Recoil Buffers.........the never ending debate.
They are really not necessary, but an addition that I prefer to use in my AK's to curb long term wear and tear. Most AK's run fine with them, but some report problems with their use. I say pick up a $15 Buffer Tech buffer and try it out. If the rifles cycles fine for 3-4 mags, you know you're good to go. |
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Quoted:
Ahhhh........Recoil Buffers.........the never ending debate. They are really not necessary, but an addition that I prefer to use in my AK's to curb long term wear and tear. Most AK's run fine with them, but some report problems with their use. I say pick up a $15 Buffer Tech buffer and try it out. If the rifles cycles fine for 3-4 mags, you know you're good to go. You ain't kiddin'.... If the buffertech one causes you any trouble try the ones from blackjack buffers, The blackjack units are half the thickness of the buffertech buffers and less likely to cause any problems. FWIW I run the blackjacks in all my chicoms and haven't had any problems, though the buffertech ones did cause some FTF issues with a few rifles which didn't seem to like 'em. YMMV. |
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I would not use a buffer unless I needed it. Likely culprits, too much recoil (gas tube hole in barrel too large) or weak recoil spring. A perfectly tuned AK should never slam into the rear trunion. It should slowly come to a halt and just kiss that trunnion if it touches it at all. If it is slamming into it, something is wrong.
The buffer will keep you from beating the rear trunnion to death, but the AK wasn't designed to require a buffer. Look at your rear trunnion and bolt carrier for signs of slamming. But then some people just "need" to add something. If you are one of those people then I am not here to stop you! Go for it, it's your machine, do what makes YOU happy in the end ;) |
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If you "Need" a buffer for a "repair" than your barking up the wrong tree. Honestly I use them but wouldnt recommend them.
Most all AKs bolt carriers will hit/slam into the rear trunnion to a certain degree. Thats not a malfunction  people...
I have one thats gone thru 4k of 5.45 and is still in good condition. If SHTF, i probably would remove it after my first cleaning (if i had a chance). I like using the buffers, but i wouldnt rely on them. |
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A buffer reduced my WASR's recoil a bit (not that it was much anyway) and it quited the bolt cycle down. On my Yugo I couldn't tell any difference after I added it. I like them. Good argument for the skinny Blackjack ones but I just got $13+/- ones from Midway. I haven't had a FTF yet on either gun.
Have fun w/ it, add it then remove it then add it again. |
Blackjack on both 106's here
Blackjack buffer 
Buffertech (installed) As mentioned the Blackjack is thinner and from what I have read people have had fewer issues with )also a little less inexpensive I have over $2k invested (rifles and mags) in both of these weapons - that Arsenal does not make anymore...I look at the buffers I have as cheap insurance that does not perm. modify the gun - If and when they start to fail - easily removed - until then the Blackjack does work |
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they cure the guns that the bolt carrier jumps up when racked to the rear which is a fault of the spring guide not holding it down. The only time I've seen a carrier come off the rails, the problem was caused by the rails not the spring guide. The rails were too short. |
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If your carrier is hitting the rear trunnion you need a new spring. What your saying is that all my AKs and my friends' AKs need new springs? 1.Milled and Stamped Vectors 2.Polytechs milled and stamped 3.Yugo's 4.Tantals 5.Sars 6.Saiga 7.NHM 8.WASRs Im not sure where you're getting your info from, but please dont spread false info. Btw, buffers dont "cure" a damn thing. They may resolve the issue "momentarily", but its not a cure. I would recommend testing "your" own AKs. 
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I've always had this hairbrained notion.
Say your bolt carrier is close to, but not hitting the trunnion. "Ooh, I'll get one of them buffer things to reduce problems in the future!" So, if the bolt carrier stays around 1-2mm away from the trunnion, but then the buffer actually gets contacted by the carrier, does that force not then get transferred to the trunnion where it wasn't before? I dunno, maybe it's just my ramblings for the morning. Like Texas Ranger said in Talladega Nights, I'm all jacked up on Mountain Dew!! |
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I've always had this hairbrained notion. Say your bolt carrier is close to, but not hitting the trunnion. "Ooh, I'll get one of them buffer things to reduce problems in the future!" So, if the bolt carrier stays around 1-2mm away from the trunnion, but then the buffer actually gets contacted by the carrier, does that force not then get transferred to the trunnion where it wasn't before? I dunno, maybe it's just my ramblings for the morning. Like Texas Ranger said in Talladega Nights, I'm all jacked up on Mountain Dew!! Totally agree with what your trying to say. In your scenario a buffer would possibly increase recoil. But the owner (this is why i wouldnt recommend buffers to most) would have to understand/know his/her own rifle. If the owner tested that rifle, he/she wouldnt even consider a buffer. thats my coffeeee high ramblings 
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If your carrier is hitting the rear trunnion you need a new spring. What your saying is that all my AKs and my friends' AKs need new springs? 1.Milled and Stamped Vectors 2.Polytechs milled and stamped 3.Yugo's 4.Tantals 5.Sars 6.Saiga 7.NHM 8.WASRs Im not sure where you're getting your info from, but please dont spread false info. Btw, buffers dont "cure" a damn thing. They may resolve the issue "momentarily", but its not a cure. I would recommend testing "your" own AKs. If the carrier is striking the stock block with sufficient force to cause peening of the carrier or block something is wrong and needs to be corrected. if the carrier touches but not with sufficient force to cause damage, something is out of spec (perhaps the spring, perhaps the effective length of the receiver, perhaps something else) but not sufficiently out of spec to be concerned about. |
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I have over $2k invested (rifles and mags) in both of these weapons - that Arsenal does not make anymore...I look at the buffers I have as cheap insurance As anyone who has ever read a homeowner's insurance policy knows, they all have an exception for acts of war. In the 60's some insurance companies "remedied" this exception by offering insurance to cover damage caused by nuclear war. That was a pretty sweet deal for the companies. After all, they'd never have to pay. If the houses were damaged as the result of a nuclear exchange the homeowners would be dead or the company would be out of business. BTW, that "insurance" was cheap too. |
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If your carrier is hitting the rear trunnion you need a new spring. What your saying is that all my AKs and my friends' AKs need new springs? 1.Milled and Stamped Vectors 2.Polytechs milled and stamped 3.Yugo's 4.Tantals 5.Sars 6.Saiga 7.NHM 8.WASRs Im not sure where you're getting your info from, but please dont spread false info. Btw, buffers dont "cure" a damn thing. They may resolve the issue "momentarily", but its not a cure. I would recommend testing "your" own AKs. If the carrier is striking the stock block with sufficient force to cause peening of the carrier or block something is wrong and needs to be corrected. if the carrier touches but not with sufficient force to cause damage, something is out of spec (perhaps the spring, perhaps the effective length of the receiver, perhaps something else) but not sufficiently out of spec to be concerned about. Exactly!!  I couldnt get the damn words out right. I knew "someone" would know exactly what to say I'm still a  but common sense is there
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Rube, by hitting , I meant striking or whacking, due to different ammo invariably they are going to touch once in
a while. And for the poster that thinks the carrier jump is caused by the rails, take your spring out and pull the carrier back. It is made to come out that way. I tig welded up rails and filed them back to where the carrier had to be popped in it fit so tight. They would still catch when hand cycled. The cure was in making the spring retainer hold the carrier down. m2c |
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Rube, by hitting , I meant striking or whacking, due to different ammo invariably they are going to touch once in a while. And for the poster that thinks the carrier jump is caused by the rails, take your spring out and pull the carrier back. It is made to come out that way. I tig welded up rails and filed them back to where the carrier had to be popped in it fit so tight. They would still catch when hand cycled. The cure was in making the spring retainer hold the carrier down. m2c So everyone who bought a certain manufacturer's receiver just happened to have defective recoil spring guides, and no one who bought another manufacurer's receiver EVER had a defective spring guide?
I fold my own. I am careful about sizing the cutout for the carrier. I've never had a problem with the carrier trying to leave the rails. Coincidence? You're free to believe what you will. I know better. |
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It happens on many ak's, I have a had a number of them brought to me and one on an armory receiver I built do
it. You can't cut the receivers apart to repair them. I think the rear trunnion may be tilted back on some and a little to high on others. The tapco hammers are also high and put more upward pressure on the carrier assembly possibly making the problem appear in a gun it otherwise wouldn't. Blackjack buffers have been a quick fix for a lot of ak's or you would see even more of them needing work I think. |
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I think the rear trunnion may be tilted back on some and a little to high on others. The tapco hammers are also high and put more upward pressure on the carrier assembly possibly making the problem appear in a gun it otherwise wouldn't. Blackjack buffers have been a quick fix for a lot of ak's or you would see even more of them needing work I think. So your using a buffer to "repair" a problem with stock block placement the way some people use cans, wire and tape to "repair" a hole in an exhaust pipe? |
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I think the rear trunnion may be tilted back on some and a little to high on others. The tapco hammers are also high and put more upward pressure on the carrier assembly possibly making the problem appear in a gun it otherwise wouldn't. Blackjack buffers have been a quick fix for a lot of ak's or you would see even more of them needing work I think. So your using a buffer to "repair" a problem with stock block placement the way some people use cans, wire and tape to "repair" a hole in an exhaust pipe? Hay that works !!
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It is my understanding that the bolt carrier on an AK is designed to stop exactly 3mm from hitting the stock mounting block, each and every time. This is regardless of how clean or dirty the rifle is, operating in 20 below zero arctic conditions or 110 degrees in the Sahara desert, variances in ammo, brand new "stiff" rifle or a well-used one with wear-polished surfaces. The AK rifle is a precision shooting machine that even impresses NASA with its exacting operational principles...
Or, maybe not!
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