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Posted: 12/24/2008 10:00:29 AM EDT
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Just got it in, and its a great rifle. Its a Bulgarian kit built on an AUSA receiver. It came from the factory with a recoil buffer, so naturally I took it out. Only problem is, when you remove it and you retract the carrier all the way rearward (as far back as possible), the bolt carrier pops up about a 1/4 of a millimeter, and gets hung up on the receiver rails. Push the handle downward, and the bolt slams home. NO, it is not getting caught up on the hammer, this happens much farther back.
Obviously, this is "normal" since you have to have enough clearance to be able to remove the carrier from the receiver. However, I'm assuming that its typically the spring that limits rearward travel, and in this case, it is allowing the bolt to come far enough back that you could pull it straight up and remove the carrier assembly. Obviously you cant because there is a spring in the way, but you get the idea. Now, there is a great chance that this rifle will function perfectly. I have NOT shot it. However, I don't want the bolt carrier to pop "up" at the most rearward point of travel, and gum up my receiver rails and eventually cause problems. I could solve this by leaving the buffer in, but to me thats just a bandaid. So... 1- do I have to worry about this? 2- Is there an easy fix? I thought about swapping recoil springs with another 74, but who knows. Thanks for the help, Scott |
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#1. Recoil buffer should not be used as a "FIX".
Most rifles are test fired, but i would have to contact the place you ordered this rifle from. Knowing myself, i would probably go shoot the shit out of her w/o the buffer. Pix would help  good luck merry christmas
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Try cycling the rifle by hand quickly. See if the bolt carrier pops up or not. If it doesn't do it by hand, it shouldn't do it when the rifle is firing. Unfortunately I'm not by it right now, but doing it fast I think it was ok. My biggest concern is that over time it could beat the snot out of those receiver rails and cause a bigger issue. However, due to the ways AK's just...well...are...my guess is that it will fire fine. I guess I was just spoiled with Krebs and Vector builds though...this fucking thing reminds me of my SAR2. Not smooth at all, just...well... an AK 
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Sounds like they screwed up the receiver rails. The buffer is a band-aid. I'd make the vendor replace it. BSW I was thinking that too, but it only happens when you have the bolt carrier ALL the way back. It just seems like whatever should be limiting the travel with the spring in, in this case is not. Obviously there has to be enough room there to get the carrier out in the first place...the only problem is, most of the time when the recoil spring is installed, you cannot physically pull it back that far. I just dont know what the actual physical mechanism is that keeps it from going back far enough to allow it to pop up on a "normal" AK, so I'm just guessing. The only thing I can think of would be the spring/rod... |
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The rear trunnion is set back a little too far, the buffer was installed to take up the slack while hand cycling. During firing conditions, the carrier will not go as far back.I'm not a fan of buffers in an AK but in this case it would'nt hurt anything. Well...that makes sense lol. So, no real issues other than being annoying? Is there any simple way to adjust this or is that pretty much that? As long as it functions without the buffer, I'll just leave it in there and not worry about it I guess...unless its a really "stupid" fuck up that shouldn't have happened in the first place... I also noticed that the reciever cover sits farther back too. Not nearly as tight of a fit as my others, so that would definitely make sense. Just wondering if this is acceptable on a build or if its unacceptable. I waited a while for this thing, and I have to admit, I'm not nearly as blown away as I thought I would be...or should be for that matter. |
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Hand cycling an AK (or any firearm for that matter) does NOT equate to actual firing. Quit playing with it, go out and shoot it. If it malfunctions when you're actually shooting it, then you are allowed to complain.  Well no shit, did you even read my original post? |
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Hand cycling an AK (or any firearm for that matter) does NOT equate to actual firing. Quit playing with it, go out and shoot it. If it malfunctions when you're actually shooting it, then you are allowed to complain. Yeah, why would you function check the rifle before shooting it.
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The rear trunnion is set back a little too far, the buffer was installed to take up the slack while hand cycling. During firing conditions, the carrier will not go as far back.I'm not a fan of buffers in an AK but in this case it would'nt hurt anything. Well...that makes sense lol. So, no real issues other than being annoying? Is there any simple way to adjust this or is that pretty much that? As long as it functions without the buffer, I'll just leave it in there and not worry about it I guess...unless its a really "stupid" fuck up that shouldn't have happened in the first place... I also noticed that the reciever cover sits farther back too. Not nearly as tight of a fit as my others, so that would definitely make sense. Just wondering if this is acceptable on a build or if its unacceptable. I waited a while for this thing, and I have to admit, I'm not nearly as blown away as I thought I would be...or should be for that matter. Its a common problem with some early AK builds, more of an annoyance than an actual problem. If your top cover is a little short you can bend the rear bottom edge out slightly and tighten it up some. Go easy and work your way across evenly. |
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The rear trunnion is set back a little too far, the buffer was installed to take up the slack while hand cycling. During firing conditions, the carrier will not go as far back.I'm not a fan of buffers in an AK but in this case it would'nt hurt anything. Well...that makes sense lol. So, no real issues other than being annoying? Is there any simple way to adjust this or is that pretty much that? As long as it functions without the buffer, I'll just leave it in there and not worry about it I guess...unless its a really "stupid" fuck up that shouldn't have happened in the first place... I also noticed that the reciever cover sits farther back too. Not nearly as tight of a fit as my others, so that would definitely make sense. Just wondering if this is acceptable on a build or if its unacceptable. I waited a while for this thing, and I have to admit, I'm not nearly as blown away as I thought I would be...or should be for that matter. Its a common problem with some early AK builds, more of an annoyance than an actual problem. If your top cover is a little short you can bend the rear bottom edge out slightly and tighten it up some. Go easy and work your way across evenly. Roger that. I might give that a shot, even though honestly its barely noticable. Maybe a 1/16th of an inch of play, if that. Either way, my plan is to gunkote this rifle anyways so if I do mar up the finish on the receiver rail, it shouldn't be a problem. Spray it, bake it, and thats that. So basically, I shouldn't worry about this and just accept it as is? I certainly can leave the buffer in, since this AK is basically a range gun and there are 3 others in front of it in the SHTF line, I just want to ensure that my rifle is OK and that it otherwise isn't a problem...It just seems like a really stupid problem given that it came from a group that...well...builds alot of AK's. I just don't like having plastic in a gun...thats all. Its already smoothed up a little bit just by hand cycling it. But I had an idea. If I took a file and ever so lightly rounded out the very front of the rail slot on the carrier, and then did the same to the very back of the receiver rail, I imagine it wouldn't take much to angle them in a way that even if I did yank it back all the way during loading *without the buffer installed*, it wouldn't cause the carrier to hang up. Since those areas serve no purpose in indexing anything or preventing movement...removing a little material to round it out wouldn't hurt...atleast I dont think it would. Thoughts? |
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Hey I did not read any of the responses in this thread, so this may be redundant.
What you are describing will more than likely only be a problem for a short time while manually cycling the bolt. I can't guarantee you anything, but I am sure it will not pose a problem when shooting live. Shoot a few hundred rounds through it, I bet the problem goes away all together. |
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No, its not an inconvenience, it is a defect. There are several causes for it and several fixes. That the parts kit does it on a new receiver is not necessarily the fault of the builder - that it was shipped to the customer that way is the builder's fault. The bolt carrier relief cut may already have been adjusted for a different receiver cut relationship.
CAUSES 1. bad recoil spring 2. wrong (from a different gun) recoil spring guide. There is a reason they are numbered to the gun - they are not always interchangeable. 3. receiver cutout too large 4. Bolt carrier relief cut too far back 5. bolt carrier relief cut has improper lead angle. It is supposed to be a wedge to slide under the rail. 6. wrong type of US gas piston (thread length is important as it affects recoil spring length) FIXES 1. Recoil buffer. Avoids the problem - doesn't fix it 2. Replace recoil spring 3, Substitute different recoil spring guide. 4. Substitute Wolf +15% recoil spring. Like the buffer, this works around the problem without fixing it. 5. adjust lead angle on bolt carrier relief cut 6. weld bolt carrier rail longer on the right side and then do #5. 7. extend gas piston thread length or replace gas piston. An AK74 piston thread length is longer. While and AK47 piston usually works on a 74, sometimes it will cause this issue. There is nothing random about the AK design. Every little cut and bevel is there for a specific reason. Many of the things I had previously assumed were shoddy Warsaw Pact construction turned out to be there for a reason - just a reason that eluded me at the time. On some of my earlier builds, I figured that all the recoil spring guides were the same and sanded off the numbers. The result was guns with the defect of the bolt carrier popping out of the rails. I should have known that there would be no reason to number a part if there was no reason to number the part. After 500 AK builds, I no longer try to second guess Mr. Kalishnikov. |
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No, its not an inconvenience, it is a defect. There are several causes for it and several fixes. That the parts kit does it on a new receiver is not necessarily the fault of the builder - that it was shipped to the customer that way is the builder's fault. The bolt carrier relief cut may already have been adjusted for a different receiver cut relationship. CAUSES 1. bad recoil spring 2. wrong (from a different gun) recoil spring guide. There is a reason they are numbered to the gun - they are not always interchangeable. 3. receiver cutout too large 4. Bolt carrier relief cut too far back 5. bolt carrier relief cut has improper lead angle. It is supposed to be a wedge to slide under the rail. 6. wrong type of US gas piston (thread length is important as it affects recoil spring length) FIXES 1. Recoil buffer. Avoids the problem - doesn't fix it 2. Replace recoil spring 3, Substitute different recoil spring guide. 4. Substitute Wolf +15% recoil spring. Like the buffer, this works around the problem without fixing it. 5. adjust lead angle on bolt carrier relief cut 6. weld bolt carrier rail longer on the right side and then do #5. 7. extend gas piston thread length or replace gas piston. An AK74 piston thread length is longer. While and AK47 piston usually works on a 74, sometimes it will cause this issue. There is nothing random about the AK design. Every little cut and bevel is there for a specific reason. Many of the things I had previously assumed were shoddy Warsaw Pact construction turned out to be there for a reason - just a reason that eluded me at the time. On some of my earlier builds, I figured that all the recoil spring guides were the same and sanded off the numbers. The result was guns with the defect of the bolt carrier popping out of the rails. I should have known that there would be no reason to number a part if there was no reason to number the part. After 500 AK builds, I no longer try to second guess Mr. Kalishnikov. So would you recommend I send it back if swapping out recoil rod/spring assemblys with my other AK's doesn't solve the problem (and also not create problems in others as well?) |
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I'd certainly talk to the builder. But if he didn't know how to fix it the first time, what makes you think sending it back would help? Heck, I don't know why you wasted your time building it on an AUSA receiver. Its an expensive kit - why not use a heat-treated NODAK receiver?
And the builder shipped a gun that he knew was defective - or do you think he put the buffer there as a free bonus? So I'd be less confident. |
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Hey I did not read any of the responses in this thread, so this may be redundant. What you are describing will more than likely only be a problem for a short time while manually cycling the bolt. I can't guarantee you anything, but I am sure it will not pose a problem when shooting live. Shoot a few hundred rounds through it, I bet the problem goes away all together. They jumped my ass for essentially saying the same thing.
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Hey I did not read any of the responses in this thread, so this may be redundant. What you are describing will more than likely only be a problem for a short time while manually cycling the bolt. I can't guarantee you anything, but I am sure it will not pose a problem when shooting live. Shoot a few hundred rounds through it, I bet the problem goes away all together. They jumped my ass for essentially saying the same thing.
Actually it was your sarcasm and attitude. |
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I'd certainly talk to the builder. But if he didn't know how to fix it the first time, what makes you think sending it back would help? Heck, I don't know why you wasted your time building it on an AUSA receiver. Its an expensive kit - why not use a heat-treated NODAK receiver? And the builder shipped a gun that he knew was defective - or do you think he put the buffer there as a free bonus? So I'd be less confident. I didnt have a choice in the receiver. I ordered it from a company that builds the kits, and sends them out. They offer a few different stock and furniture options, all I did was add it to the cart, wait a month or so, and presto. Heres my AK. I was under the impression that they were now using Nodak Spud receivers, but apparantly I was mistaken. I'm not going to out the builder just yet, but I'm sure you guys are smart enough to figure it out. If you must know, PM me but I'd like to keep it off the public forum until the issue is resolved...whether I send it back in or not. I'm going to talk to them and see what they say, but the bottom line is, I am looking for some advise from YOU guys as opposed to them. If they tell me that its OK and there is nothing they can do, do I accept it or do I fight for them to replace it? Thats what I am getting at. I am not knowledgable enough about the issue to detirmine whether or not it is serious enough to pursue. If it genuinely is something that will work itself out and disappear after getting shot, I'll go ahead and do that. I just dont want to have a gun that has a hidden issue that will present itself later on and by then be too damaged to repair. I also dont want a gun that uses a recoil buffer as a bandaid to mask a future potential problem. You're exactly right. Im not sure if I do trust the builder, hence why I am attempting to get infromation from unbiased shooters as opposed to them. I also happen to live 15 minutes from Krebs, and I'm sure they wouldnt mind helping me diagnose the problem if I asked them politely
I will try and snap up some pictures later today and get them posted. Not sure if they will help, but we'll see. |
| I would be a little leery of the ORF builds on the AUSA receivers (some bad reports of rust and cosmo seeping out after shooting.) Make them replace it and make them use a NODAK. Any reputable builder will stand behind their work. I have put buffers in all of my '74s as the only real problem I have with them is the chinese drums FTF. |
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I think you're right. They're going to have to replace this one.
Its got to be something with the receiver. I took my Krebs sidefolder 74, literally swapped out every part I could, and tried it. No matter what part was where, spring, bolt carrier, etc, the new 74 would hang up, and the new parts worked fine in the Krebs. It has to be either the receiver or the trunion being set too far back as one poster above pointed out. I'm out of ideas. THE ONLY TIME IT WOULDNT hang up 100% of the time was if I took the safety out. Can't figure that one out considering it doesn't touch the carrier, but it didnt happen as much. The pressure from the hammer pushing up on the bolt though is enough to make something catch on something and hang it up. Though a funny point...my Krebs build is on an AUSA reciever, and its been flawless. |
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I have an AUSA receivered AK74. They are OK but not the same quality compared to a NDS receiver.
The AUSA ejector has noticeable wear/battering that has settled down after 2000 rounds. The ejectors in my NDS guns show almost no where after the same amount of rounds. That sold me on the NDS products. |
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Nothing wrong with AUSA Recievers, the rear trunnion is just set too far back. Is this something that can be adjusted, or since its already basically riveted in place will it have to be replaced? Makes total sense though. Explains the gap between the stock and receiver, as well as the receiver cover. The amount of gap between everything is nearly identical so that pretty much has to be it... Scott |
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uh - yeah - sorry I left that one out - I figured if there was a gap you'd have mentioned it. The repair here is to weld in the incorrectly drilled holes and do them again. Possibly need a new rear trunion too if those holes are oversized. Ok so in other words I'll be asking them to replace the receiver...lol |
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Scott, Have you actually fired the rifle yet? Nope, not going to waste the ammo though. I don't want this thing getting hung up on me every time I try to load it, and the gaps would certainly confirm that the rear trunion is too far back. As soon as I hear back from the vendor, I'm going to request a return label and have it replaced. Already started to refinish the wood though, so hopefully they'll let me keep that and send me a new one without any furniture
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