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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 47 -VS- 74??? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/7/2007 8:23:08 AM EDT
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Im sure this has been beat to death on here but I have been gone overseas for a while and I wanted to know a few things about the 47 vs the 74. OK so over all which is better. In a SHTF which would you want and why? I have a 47 now would it be better to have another 47 or sale the one i have and get a 74 and the start on another 74? Or would you go with two 47s? What about ammo? You can by 47 at wal mart if you have too but not the 74. knock down and kill power of a 74 vs a 47? Accuracy of a 47 vs 74? Coolness factor 47 or 74? Any pros or cons of either? Thanks guys and sorry again if this is a dead horse that Im flogging. 
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I have a 47 now would it be better to have another 47 or sale the one i have and get a 74 and the start on another 74? Or would you go with two 47s? What about ammo? You can by 47 at Wal mart if you have too but not the 74. knock down and kill power of a 74 vs a 47? Accuracy of a 47 vs 74? Coolness factor 47 or 74? Any pros or cons of either? In order: You already have a 47, I recommend having a 74 to go along with it. Right now, there is no American-made 5.45x39 ammo to be bought at Wal mart, but there's probably a really good chance American makers will start due to the growing popularity of the AK-74. "Knock down" and Kill power is too fuzzy for a really good comparison. The 7.62 penetrates better in brick which is why the Russian's used it in Chechnya house-to-house fighting, but they use the 5.45 BY PREFERENCE for everything else. When the Soviets began development of the 5.45, they were clear that he 5.45 HAD to be NO LESS effective than the 7.62 in Real World combat. Russian results from Afghanistan and Chechnya indicate that the round met the expectation. The tumbling 5.45 has a great reputation as a good combat round, and American deer and varmint hunters say it's a very good killer. Accuracy of the 5.45 is generally better than the 7.62. The round is much higher velocity and flatter shooting than the 7.62, and most actual shooters report better accuracy with the AK-74. "Coolness" is subjective and like art, is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I prefer my AK-74 Bulgarian to the Bulgarian Arsenal SLR I used to have. There are no real pros or cons, other than that "right now" the cheapest ammo you can buy is military surplus 5.45. 1080 round cans can be bought for $118.00 a can from distributors like Aim, Century, etc. If you stock up, any shortages or higher future prices will not be a factor. |
Considering just how much 5.45 ammo has been surplused, it will be quite a while until the stocks run out. The importers haven't even started on the East German stuff yet. |
When was the E German made? |
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You should have both. Like others have said, the 5.45 shoots flatter (similar external ballisitics to .223), is lighter to carry around, has less recoil (when combined with a true AK-74 muzzle break, makes for "stupid fast" followup shots), and it generally a little more accurate. But that's not to say that the 7.62 doesn't have it's advantages, either. Within its effective range envelope, it's big, fat-assed 123gr. bullet can can punch through things the smaller caliber's half-as-heavy bullets cannot. Recoil is still very mild compared to full power cartridges, like .308, 7.62x54R, or 8mm Mauser. Ammo is still cheap compared to other centerfire cartridges and can be found pretty much anywhere ammo is sold. |
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If you are talking about for range fun/collection, definitely go with an AK74 for variety. If your main reason for the purchase is SHTF, definitely go with another AK47. The way I think, the reasons for two AK47's vs one AK47 and one AK74 for SHTF are: 1. You have rifles that use the exact same parts so spares/interchangeability of parts is much better. 2. You can share ammo and mags with two AK47s. 3. 7.62x39 is ten times more common to find anywhere in the USA than 5.45x39. In 1994, there was an executive order banning ammo from China. There could possibly be an executive order banning all importation of ammo in the future. There is probably a 1000+ to 1 ratio of rifles that shoot 7.62x39 vs rifles that shoot 5.45x39 in the USA (think of all those SKSs, WASRs, Chinese AKs, Yugo AKs, etc that have been imported over the years). If there was ever any domestic production of 5.45x39, it would probably cost a butt load of money per round to buy because of the small amount of production on account of relatively low demand. Even if 5.45 doesn't get banned from importation, the reason the price is so low is that most is corrosive military surplus. Surplus comes and goes (look at 8mm and 7.62x54R). A few years ago you couldn't find 5.45 very easily. When you could find it, it was expensive. 4. Most modern combat takes place under 300m. In a SHTF scenario, most of the trouble will be in urban areas with lack of food, water, etc because of high population density. Most fighting in urban areas would be 100m and under because of buildings and such. Heck, looters and bad people aren't going to be wearing uniforms, how could you even ID a bad guy at over 300m, let alone shoot him? No, I'm guessing that 90% of the time you won't even be able to know someone is a bad guy until they are in shouting range. At those ranges in urban areas, the 7.62x39 is a superior round because it can turn cover into concealment on account of its better penetration. |
| 74 all around is a better round, flatter shooting, tumbles within the first three inches after punching through, more accurate out to reasonable distances however it is also corrosive. If you don't clean the damn things within a couple hours after shooting then you'll have rust forming inside your gas block, gas tube, muzzle break, rear sight block, etc. If the SHTF then you don't want to be stuck having a weapon that needs more maintainance than an AR15. They are cheap to shoot and fun for the range but other than that I wouldn't carry one. All around I believe the .223 is the best for AK's if you also own some AR's. |
All of the surplus is. Wolf makes some that isn't, but is much more expensive. (Did I just say that? ) |
Basically all the former Com Block countries are getting adopted into NATO and will be using 5.56 from here on out. Primarily dumping all 5.45x39 onto our market at lowball prices. I love my 5.45 but you do have to clean it very well with warm water. I just throw mine in the tub to dissolve the salts from the primer. |
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My answer to this question is this: Do you already have a stockpile of 7.62x39 ammunition and plenty of magazines for this caliber? If so, don't even think about changing calibers. In fact, think about more ammunition instead of another rifle. If you don't have a stockpile of ammunition and magazines for the 7.62x 39 rifle, make up your mind about which caliber you want, buy however many rifles you want in that caliber and stock up on magazines and cartridges for the caliber you choose. Plan on getting EVERYTHING you want/need BEFORE 1/1/09 (actually, I'd buy it all ASAP). ETA: My personal choice is 7.62, but your circumstances may be such that 5.45 is the better choice. I'd be very careful about buying a 5.56x45 AK. Many of those rifles have reliability issues. Do your research before laying down your money. |
These answers are better answered by you. Do your current rifle do everything you want? If it does, then get another one of the same. If it doesn't get the other one. |
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I would stick with the 7.62x39 round. Most of the surplus 5.45 ammo is corrossive and is just the Comm version of the .223/.556. The lighter and smaller .556 has "always" had questions about it's killing power.This has led to the SF recent experients with the 6.8 bullets in @115 gr as the .223 just was not heavy enough. That said, the 7.62x39 has "never" had a question about it's killing power. 7.62x39 ammo is non-corossive, cheap and easily found. The 7.62x39 is compared to a 30/30. Both the 7.62x39 and the 30/30 can easily take hog and deer, so your gun can be used to harvest either. 
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I have 3 7.62 AK's now, with another on the way and one 5.45 Krinkov that I need to build. Because the Krinkov's barrel will be so much shorter, I don't think I'll get a chance to do a good comparison. This obviously means that I should pick up a 5.45 16" carbine to find out for myself!
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O'Really? Respected professionals like Doctor Gary K. Roberts CDR, USN disagree:
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yeah and eggs are good for you, no wait eggs are bad, no wait good, i mean bad. this stuff had always been back an forth, look at the 9mm vs 45 acp arguments. It depends on the round and on the target. if the bad guy takes 2 5.45x39 rounds i doubt hes going to be to thankful it wasnt 7.62x39. you want real instant stopping power in an ak get a siaga 12 everything else is a very long drawn out argument. and the bad thing about that argument is that everyone is pretty much right under different circumstances.  oh yeah, buy both |
I assure you that people who are being shot at with it never question the power of the 7.62x39 cartridge. I assume that people who are being shot at with 5.45x39 or 5.56x45 cartridges don't question the power of those cartridges either. It's the folks who are far from where the bullets are flying who ask those questions. |
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And I assure you that I will cosider the findings of the foremost expert in the field of terminal ballistics pretty much above anyone and everone else. Considering Commander Gary K Roberts has both the degree, the lab and has seen the elephant. It isn't the rounds fired in my direction that are to be questioned, it is the rounds being fired at the enemy and that they be capable of doing their job. There is considerable evidence that the 7.62x39 has less to brag about here than some would like to try and claim. |
agreed thus 5.45 is closer to an AR15 w 5.56 so why not get a AR15 with all it's add-ons and choices? bottom line is I sure wouldn't want to be hit by any of them 
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It seems that you should have quoted the rest of the post, since not too many of us will be using Chinese steel core. |
I can't find anything that identifies him as an authority on wound ballistics. I found some old posts he made on another website ,but of course he doesn't make that claim for himself. And I found a dentist in Palo Alto CA, but I can't seem to find anything about his combat experience, degree or lab. |
Don't worry. He is one of the most respected in the industry when it comes to terminal balistics. I don't know what his combat experience is. I do agree, though, that I don't want to be shot by any of the calibers discussed here. |
Try harder. |
No thanks. I'll simply give your claims the weight I give all the other unsupported statements I read on the 'net. |
 Wow talk about not opening your eyes.....  You'd learn a lot more and be better at determining BS vs. truth if you knew how to research. [cough]google[/cough] is a good place to start. |
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If you're using Firefox (hit Ctrl + F) and type in Roberts....see how many times his name pops up on the page below. www.firearmstactical.com/wbr.htm BTW Dr. Roberts IIRC studied under Dr. Martin Fackler who is another big name in terminal ballistics. |
And I will give your statements the same consideration I always do when I read them....and for some reason, I once again wish Goatboy would add an igonre feature so I could filter out some of the uninformed opinions, disinformation and noise. Who Dr. Roberts is and his standing is no more determined by your opinion and beliefs than whether the existance of India is dependant upon your belief in its reality. |
I have been shooting EBRs for over 30 years. I own a bunch. They are all either 5.56x45 , 7.62x39 , or 7.62x51 The 74s are nice rifles and fun to shoot , but you have to draw the line somewhere.  |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 47 -VS- 74??? (Page 1 of 2)
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