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Posted: 11/25/2005 4:41:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2005 4:42:11 PM EDT by hispeedal2]
Who, besides UltiMak, makes an aluminum rail system for a stamped AK?
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 6:21:03 PM EDT
I did some more research and found Kreb's custom and Bruger and Thomet rail systems.

I really like them but, the price seems to high. In the AR arena, I can get a well made rail system for around $150.

Is there anyhting of comparable quality and half the price as these?
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 7:58:51 PM EDT
Howabout this?(2/3 down the page): tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/
Tomac
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:08:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomac:
Howabout this?(2/3 down the page): tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/
Tomac



The only one that I saw was polymer. Is that the one that you are ttrying to point out?

I am really looking for an aluminum or metal unit.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:12:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hispeedal2:

Originally Posted By Tomac:
Howabout this?(2/3 down the page): tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/
Tomac



The only one that I saw was polymer. Is that the one that you are ttrying to point out?

I am really looking for an aluminum or metal unit.



Yes, that's the one I was pointing out. I know it's not aluminum/metal but it is substantially cheaper and easy to install/remove.
Tomac
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 8:38:09 AM EDT
I am still looking for one that is aluminum.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:05:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2005 6:05:53 PM EDT by chapperjoe]
ther'es one on the EE not a bad price.... I'm debating it.

made out of aluminum, 100$. very 'understated'! which is something AK rail manufacturers are having a hard time understanding!

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=123&t=306097

Link Posted: 11/26/2005 10:29:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
ther'es one on the EE not a bad price.... I'm debating it.

made out of aluminum, 100$. very 'understated'! which is something AK rail manufacturers are having a hard time understanding!

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=123&t=306097




That is what I was looking for ChapperJoe.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:25:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:33:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TDMAKER:
MI is now in the early stages of r&d of a 2 rail aluminum ak handguard.Please give us some suggestions of features you would all like incorporated into such a system.
thanks
TROY
MI



more real estate on teh side rails forward of teh gas block.... If folks wanna put a light on the side of an AK railed handguard, then there's no where for you to grip the handguard cause the sides are so short. I'd suggest keeping the bottom rail standard langth, but extending the two side rails about two inches forward of the hadnguard. The ultimak solution where the entire thing is extended looks too heavy and bulky....

Kinda like this, but for an AK....


Link Posted: 11/27/2005 12:42:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TDMAKER:
MI is now in the early stages of r&d of a 2 rail aluminum ak handguard.Please give us some suggestions of features you would all like incorporated into such a system.
thanks
TROY
MI



Cool, I have a MI two piece FF rail and I love the fit and finish. I am looking forward to seeing what you guys can come up with. Just remember to keep the cost down.

ChapperJoe has some good points about the design too. That 2 inches of additional length could prove to be very helpful.

-Alan
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 2:16:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 2:55:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TDMAKER:
keeping the cost resonable on any AK part is key.The average guy has Aks for the cost of ownership and the cost to run both are fairly cheap.The biggest obstical is to make a system fit universally weather it is stamped or milled there are so mant variants out there .I have romanian ,chicom and a bunch of arsenals I will be cross referencing for dimensions hopfully this will be enough to make this universal.
TROY
MI



It would not be hard to make a basic system cheaply and then have a Add on piece, like teh TDI AR hanguards for more forward placements of light and lasers.

I dunno if its just me on this one, but If you amke a free floating tube design, or een just a a quad rail tube - I think it would sell in droves. All the present ones are either made around existing furniture or conform to the previous furniture dimesions. I think it's time for an AR style rail system, plus since you already have one or two of those :-) manufacturing costs could be kept down..

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 6:15:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:11:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TDMAKER:
chapperjoe
I like the way you think
Troy
MI



I've tried every dumb thing that's come out for the FAL/G3/AK/AR...... Learned the hard way.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 6:42:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
All the present ones are either made around existing furniture or conform to the previous furniture dimesions. I think it's time for an AR style rail system, plus since you already have one or two of those :-) manufacturing costs could be kept down..




The problem with the AK is that there isn't a way to easily add a FF tube like on the AR-15 platform because of the way the barrel attaches to the trunion. If someone was to make a new front trinion that has a bigger body that has room for attachment bolts to attach a FF front end to the trunion it would be possible but then you are talking about an extreme project that might just look ugly to most people. Then, the AK isn't really known to be a target type rifle so I am not sure that you would get enough benifit from having the FF forend to make it woth the cost or effort.

I am interested in adding a set of the synthetic railed grips to one of my future builds as I lovethe rails for attaching gear... I just fail to see a benifit to an extreme system for the AK.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 6:56:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
All the present ones are either made around existing furniture or conform to the previous furniture dimesions. I think it's time for an AR style rail system, plus since you already have one or two of those :-) manufacturing costs could be kept down..




The problem with the AK is that there isn't a way to easily add a FF tube like on the AR-15 platform because of the way the barrel attaches to the trunion. If someone was to make a new front trinion that has a bigger body that has room for attachment bolts to attach a FF front end to the trunion it would be possible but then you are talking about an extreme project that might just look ugly to most people. Then, the AK isn't really known to be a target type rifle so I am not sure that you would get enough benifit from having the FF forend to make it woth the cost or effort.

I am interested in adding a set of the synthetic railed grips to one of my future builds as I lovethe rails for attaching gear... I just fail to see a benifit to an extreme system for the AK.



doesn't have to be FF, just round. with rails at 3,6,9 and 12 instead of rails at 4,5, and 6 and than one a meter above them at 12....

that top rail is really useless. Gotta clean the gas system sometime, rails gotta come off. plus not everyone wants to use a scout position scope on the AR, some people (I'd say most, just want a light, comfortable panels and the occasional grip or bipod....

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:14:05 PM EDT
SureFire M83



For those who may be interested.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 3:51:45 AM EDT
heck yeah.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:38:52 AM EDT
Wow, i thought this thread was dead and I was out of luck. That looks really nice. If that is really Surefire's rail system, I am interested to see the price when they come out with it. They kept the M73 pretty low priced and competitive.

Anyone hae a link to one for sale other than GB?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:42:03 AM EDT
I found it on their website:
www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/312/prrfnbr/24262

$250 seems a little steep. I would like to see a better price somewhere.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:52:27 AM EDT
I found this tri rail for only $100:

www.veriforcetactical.com/tactical_accessories/715/
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:03:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 12:06:40 PM EDT by littleguy]
Since nobody else has mentioned it,
this is the Command Arms (formerly TDI Arms) X47.

http://www.commandarms.com/img/productImages/X47/x47-4.jpg

I have one on an SAR2 and it is hands down the finest rail system available for Kalashnikov rifles. There are actually three separate parts - a lower handguard, upper handguard, and a third rail which is for mounting an optic above the dust cover (rifle is still completely strippable with this rail in place). You can use the lower rail with just the rear top rail, or just the front one, or all three. This system is not cheap - MSRP on the total package is $435.95, but the quality is head and shoulders above everything else on the market.

I'll post some pictures of my own rifle when I get a chance - or if you're near Allentown, PA next weekend, stop by the PA Expo center show and fondle it at the Area 51 Tactical booth :)


edited to add: that "veriforce" rail is chinese made and i wasn't impressed by the quality. you get what you pay for.... (and that one should cost about $25)
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:52:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 1:00:20 AM EDT by Thekatar]
TROY,

I like the fact that your company is looking to step-up to the plate regarding the Kalashnikov system. Since you are asking for suggestions I have a few for you.


3-Rail Aluminum AK Handguard: Replaces the lower hanguard. Perhaps this can come in two versions, the "regular length" which is the same size as the normal HG and an "extended length." Allow for the retention of the cleaning rod if possible.

Dedicated Aimpoint Throw-Lever Mount: This unit would attach to the optics rail found standard on many Kalashnikov variants. My suggestion would be for the mount to angle forward and cant inward so that the mount is over the centerline. Make it a standard 30mm mount that sits as low as possible.

End Plate Adaptor: This would attach between the stock and the receiver allowing for the attachment of a single-point sling in the best location. I think this can be accomplished with no alteration to the receiver or rear tang.


I have a fair amount of experience with the rifle and have "tested" (unscientifically) many aftermarket accessories and have come to several conclusions. The "scout rail" concept is just too difficult to implement correctly on/over the gas tube. There is a perfectly good attachment point on the side rail which can be utilized. My only real concern is a good place to mount an Aimpoint and a good place to mount a light. The Kalashnikov platform can make an excellent defensive carbine with just a bit of tweaking.

Edited to add: I don't think that you should kill yourself trying to make this thing fit all possible variations of Kalashnikov. IMO you should use the Saiga abd the Arsenal rifles as your baseline, possibly an FEG receiver as well. I think it is a misconception that men buy AK's because they're cheap and ergo they want cheap hardware for them.

If a guy can afford a good Arsenal AK and an Aimpoint and a Surefire weaponlight, he should also then have the resources for a high-quality mounting system such as one from MI.

Build it right, and they will come.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 3:21:45 AM EDT
I just got the TDI and if you think that TDI/FirstSamco isn't capable of precision, then you HAVE to see this piece. Everyedge on every rail is sharp as a knife, perfect dimensions, it's as light as it can be, VERY impressed. Gonna install it on my SAM 5 or Saiga 308 16" (haven't decided yet).

If you want to compete with this piece, the only thing I can think of would be an AR type quad rail that free floats the AK barral, gas tube. I can't figure out how to do it without attachment to the rear sight base, but you do hae a nice ledge under teh front receiver, and devising some kind of clamp system for the sight base could be enough to stabalize. PRoblem is who knows the variations in dimensions between all the AK sight bases out there. Maybe teh upper stabalizing point could be the area where teh AK sight was (it should come off if you're gonna bother Free loating the damn thing!)

But I do believe that's teh only untapped market in teh AK handguard rail area. Once the quad rail is on, itwould be a simple matter to pop on a longer rearward rail on top.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:14:10 AM EDT
Here's a pic of the "TDI" (the company is now CAA - CommandArms Accessories) X47 on an SAR2:

http://www.blackrifles.com/by-manufacturer/commandarms/x47_on_74_2s.jpg

another pic is here: www.blackrifles.com/by-manufacturer/commandarms/x47_on_ak74.jpg


Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:23:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:23:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:11:21 AM EDT
any new pics? Gotta decide on either this or the ultimak system... And I have not seen enough about this, or heard enough about this to justify dropping almost 500 on a hunch...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:04:43 PM EDT
I'm surprised it hasn't happened all ready, but I'm hoping I don't have to put on my nomex undies to ask.

What about a Krink four rail handguard?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:33:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
I'm surprised it hasn't happened all ready, but I'm hoping I don't have to put on my nomex undies to ask.

What about a Krink four rail handguard?



I know of a two rail, but not a four rail. http://www.autoburst.net/AKSU.html
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:42:30 AM EDT
How does this TDI thing attach to the receiver, & how much does it weigh?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:12:28 PM EDT
Not trying to be a smart ass but your scope cap is going to melt if you leave it rest on the gas block. Gets damn hot!

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:00:59 PM EDT
I just got a krebs system, very solid, doesn't move at all. I'm happy with it.
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