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2/14/2007 2:13:11 PM EDT
anyone heat up their rivets before you smash them?
2/14/2007 4:23:25 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't
2/14/2007 4:46:01 PM EDT
[#2]
sounds like a bad idea.  
2/14/2007 4:57:07 PM EDT
[#3]
You are squeezing a small piece of mild steel not building a railroad bridge. Dont make this harder than it has to be.
2/14/2007 5:46:46 PM EDT
[#4]
I actually did this today.  I only did it on the long rivets at the stock.  The rivets seemed to smash down more uniformly.   I only heated the last 1/2 inch of the undomed end with mapp gas until it glowed red.  Tapped it thru the hole and peened it down.  
2/15/2007 3:03:04 PM EDT
[#5]
What the hell for?  They smash fine without heat.
2/15/2007 5:04:34 PM EDT
[#6]
 I know that some of the 1919A4 builders do that, but their rivets are much larger than the 47s.
2/16/2007 2:58:02 AM EDT
[#7]
the 1919 rivets (if correct) are a harder steel and require heating for a nice smash.  The AK rivets are much softer and can be done w/o heating.  If you want to heat them, you won't do any harm.  Just an extra unnecessary step.

caspian
2/16/2007 3:06:20 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
anyone heat up their rivets before you smash them?


VERY BAD IDEA...

Unless you have proper heat-treating equipment, you WEAKEN the rivets...

Just drive them straight, or if that's too hard, use an alternate fastener such as hi-loks or CherryMax (pop) rivets...

Rivets are (technically) my job... In general, we NEVER heat them up....

2/16/2007 6:43:05 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
Rivets are (technically) my job... In general, we NEVER heat them up....



I remember seeing video of old bridge construction where they heated rivets red hot then pounded them in the bridge.  Is there a certain type of steel that isn't affected or actually benefits?

thanks
Caspian
2/16/2007 8:20:35 AM EDT
[#10]
When I first got interested in BIY AK, I spent weeks searching the net, reading, printing etc. every thing I could find on the subject.  There was one, only one "how to" page, with instruction on heating rivets.  I actually considered it as an option as the whole process of riveting with presses, jigs, ground up cheapo bolt cutters and such all sounded like a pain in the ass.  First build was rough.  Will definately do-over eventually.  Second build went WAY better.  


My third kit is here, waiting for the big brown van a polish underfolder flat from Curtis.  (who makes the best stuff by the way)  

Point is, no need I think to heat rivets.  Just don't try to squeeze trunnions with bolt cutters.  They CAN be broke.  

PCM


2/16/2007 9:47:43 AM EDT
[#11]
The long rivets in the rear straight stock trunions sometimes swell in the trunion and form very little head. To compensate for this a slightly longer rivet is needed to allow for this compression swell to fill in then form a head. These longer rivets sometimes roll to the side and create lopsided heads.
I experimented with heating the end of the long rivet in a spare trunion and had great results. The hot soft end of the rivet smashed easily and did not roll over or swell deep as a few of my first cold attempts did. I have only built underfolders since then, but will heat the long ones if I should build another straight stock.
The above guy who asked "why" is correct, you don't have to if you do evrything right. But if you have a slightly egged rear trunion from a wandering drill bit, this could be an effective save.
2/16/2007 2:07:40 PM EDT
[#12]
"But if you have a slightly egged rear trunion from a wandering drill bit, this could be an effective save."

Hey, that's a great tip.  something I hadn't thought of.  Thanks!

PCM
2/16/2007 2:21:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Really this was what I was getting at, I am doing my first build on a romy. My rear trunnion rivet seemed to just expand in the hole and there was very little head left, I ended up tig welding a head on. The next one I thought I might heat up, just wondering.
2/16/2007 3:20:53 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
Really this was what I was getting at, I am doing my first build on a romy. My rear trunnion rivet seemed to just expand in the hole and there was very little head left, I ended up tig welding a head on. The next one I thought I might heat up, just wondering.


I'd say that either 1) The rivets you were using were too short, 2) The rivets were too narrow or 3) The holes in the trunions were drilled out and enlarged.
2/16/2007 3:24:04 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Rivets are (technically) my job... In general, we NEVER heat them up....



I remember seeing video of old bridge construction where they heated rivets red hot then pounded them in the bridge.  Is there a certain type of steel that isn't affected or actually benefits?

thanks
Caspian


That method is designed into the structure of the bridge, I'd assume...

We're talking about aviation-style rivets here, for gun assembly...

You don't heat THESE types of rivets...
2/16/2007 3:25:06 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Really this was what I was getting at, I am doing my first build on a romy. My rear trunnion rivet seemed to just expand in the hole and there was very little head left, I ended up tig welding a head on. The next one I thought I might heat up, just wondering.


I'd say that either 1) The rivets you were using were too short, 2) The rivets were too narrow or 3) The holes in the trunions were drilled out and enlarged.


Rivets expand to fill holes...

It's always better to have a little extra, and a slightly 'tall' head than to over-buck 'em and have the rivet fail...
2/16/2007 3:59:14 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:Unless you have proper heat-treating equipment, you WEAKEN the rivets...


these rivets are soft enough to be squished by bolt cutters and vises.  how much of a heat treat do they have?  it seems that they aren't heat treated at the time of manufacture, so there's really no way to lose the temper is there?

help me to understand this since you seem to have some background in rivets.

i'm getting ready to rivet a 1919 tomorrow and am very interested in rivets and the different types.

thanks
caspian
2/17/2007 7:07:53 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:Unless you have proper heat-treating equipment, you WEAKEN the rivets...


these rivets are soft enough to be squished by bolt cutters and vises.  how much of a heat treat do they have?  it seems that they aren't heat treated at the time of manufacture, so there's really no way to lose the temper is there?

help me to understand this since you seem to have some background in rivets.

i'm getting ready to rivet a 1919 tomorrow and am very interested in rivets and the different types.

thanks
caspian


heating steel changes the "phase" (I think thats the proper term, Materials 201 was sooo long ago...)  it is in.  And that usually makes it "weaker".  Now if you heat, then quench in water, you make it stronger but reduce the amount of strain to failure,  just as an FYI.  you don't want "strong" rivets, you want them to strain.
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