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Posted: 5/27/2015 12:16:07 PM EDT
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I'm going to be switching over to the Mil Comm cleaners and lubricants. Does anyone know of any reason I should not?
I wanted something non toxic to replace the Hoppe's stuff I've been using since I was a kid. I looked into Froglube, but it has some serious issues, plus I have no desire to be able to eat my gun oil. I just want something that's relatively safe and won't give me a headache every time I clean my guns. If anyone has used Mil Comm stuff in the past, I would appreciate it if you could help me with the following questions. 1. Do the Mil Comm lubricants provide good corrosion protection? 2. Should I be using MC25 or MC50 cleaner? I only want to use one or the other, not both. MC25 does not clean copper, just carbon. I have heard that some people do not clean the copper out of their barrels because it shifts the POI for the first few shots. What are the potential consequences of not cleaning the copper out? 3. I will be using the TW25 lubricant to replace oil. I will be using it in my barrel, as well as to coat all parts for corrosion resistance. Now, I like to use lithium grease in my BCG at a few points, such as the contact points for the bolt and the cam pin, as well as the four rails. Will using the MC1210 lithium grease alongside the TW25 cause me any issues? Again, I will use a very light coat of the TW25 on every surface (minus the firing pin) for corrosion resistance, then use the MC1210 lithium grease for the bearing surfaces. Thanks for the help. :) |
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Quoted:
I'm going to be switching over to the Mil Comm cleaners and lubricants. Does anyone know of any reason I should not? Other than cost, no. I wanted something non toxic to replace the Hoppe's stuff I've been using since I was a kid. I looked into Froglube, but it has some serious issues, plus I have no desire to be able to eat my gun oil. I just want something that's relatively safe and won't give me a headache every time I clean my guns. If anyone has used Mil Comm stuff in the past, I would appreciate it if you could help me with the following questions. 1. Do the Mil Comm lubricants provide good corrosion protection? Yes. 2. Should I be using MC25 or MC50 cleaner? I only want to use one or the other, not both. MC25 does not clean copper, just carbon. I have heard that some people do not clean the copper out of their barrels because it shifts the POI for the first few shots. What are the potential consequences of not cleaning the copper out? I can't tell you from a technical perspective, but I don't worry about Cu and don't seem to have any accuracy issues. 3. I will be using the TW25 lubricant to replace oil. I will be using it in my barrel, as well as to coat all parts for corrosion resistance. Now, I like to use lithium grease in my BCG at a few points, such as the contact points for the bolt and the cam pin, as well as the four rails. Will using the MC1210 lithium grease alongside the TW25 cause me any issues? Again, I will use a very light coat of the TW25 on every surface (minus the firing pin) for corrosion resistance, then use the MC1210 lithium grease for the bearing surfaces. I use MobilGrease 28 on my FCG because that's what we have; I don't have any compatibility problems with it and TW-25b; both being greases, they tend to stay where you put them. I don't see why you couldn't use MC grease with TW-25b. Thanks for the help. :) Mil-Comm products are very common in the military, at least in my neck of the woods (small arms, mortars, mini-guns, chain guns, etc.) and I suspect larger weapons as well. |
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I can see no reason not to use the Mil-comm if thats what you want.IMHO its one of the best lines of weapons specific lubes there is available.Certainly is well established and a solid track record.In fact its the only lube I will use on my handguns,period.
1.Corrosion protection-in my experience the Mil-comm is one of the best protectants Ive used to date and that has alot to do with the fact that it does not evaporate off or become thick, even after years of storage.For example I have a few pistols Ive basically retired to the open air lockers that have been in storage for over five years and they look like I just did PM on them yesterday.Lube film is still visible and not a spec of corrosion even though my storage environment has a RH of around 60% year round.Ive gone weeks at a time on CCW with only needing to punch the bores to remove debris.Not to mention the months of the year Ive used it for hunting in all kinds of weather,and extensive use training at the ranges,again in all sorts of weather....have seen no issues with any corrosion. in my testing the Mil-comm displaces moisture about as well as WD40,especially the MC2500 oil.I tested for this by mixing a couple drops of water into a small pool of oil.The oil almost immediately lifts the water to the surface in beads.In comaparison CLP turns white and does not disassociate the water in the same way.In use rain beads up on the weapons as if they were waxed.So GTG in my opinion. 2.As far as cleaning the bore I still use Hoppe's No.9 or Sweets 7.62.In regards to copper,I only go after the copper once a year in the AR's and for that I use Sweets 7.62.Otherwise Ive seen no issues with the chrome lined bores.Only issue Ive had in the past accuracy and fouling wise was carbon build up inside the flash hider at the muzzle.Never seen copper fouling issues in my AR's. For hard carbon on the parts I'd just use the MC2500 oil as it cleans/penetrates about as well as the current CLP's.Otherwise once you get the Mil-comm established in the gun most of the cleaning will just be wipe off and reapply.Only hard carbon will be in the carrier,chamber and bolt tail,which will be also clean up with a bit of the MC2500 oil and an appropriate brush. To be honest Im just not satisfied with Mil-comm MC25 as it cleans about as well as 409 IMHO.Or at least what I had a few years ago anyway.The MC25 cleaner is great for prepping a surface,to remove remaining oil residue before application of a new lube,or cleaning soil but thats it for me.I have not used the MC50,so can't comment on it. If you want a non-odor safe cleaner I still say Mpro7 is the best of the bunch.Otherwise the water based cleaners evaporate off too fast to penetrate and break down fouling.Basically just remove the surface. 3.I personally think the MC2500 oil should be used along with the TW25B in combination.Which is also described in Mil-comms application instructions.For instance after wiping clean I like to wipe the action/parts with the MC2500 on a patch to remove any remaining residue,which leaves a light sheen of the oil on the parts.I then apply the TW25B with a stencil brush in the amounts described in mil-comm's application instructions.This is basically the oil floater for the TW25B like we use to do with the heavier greases years ago.Doing this I have seen that it extends the performance of the TW25B allowing for higher round counts and no need to relube, within reason.That said I do PM after every use,so the "sun never sets on a dirty weapon" in my house or otherwise. The MC2500 oil is also needed for the pins/FCG,tight spaces that needs lube to migrate/penetrate, unless you plan on using the TW25B EP spray. IMHO there is no reason to use the heavier grease,TW25B is all you need applied in a "level II application" for the bearing/friction areas.More than adequate for the bearing areas of the cam pin,hammer face and carrier rails of the AR.It remains semi-fluid in any temp and does not attach fouling.Ive never had any of the MC1210,so I can't comment. So get a bottle of the MC2500 and tube of TW25B,thats all you need. |
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I switched a few years back and never looked back. It is one of the very best cleaners and lubricants that you can buy. I love the refillable syringes, I can place a small dot of lube right where I want it. I used both the 25 and 50. When I switched the 50 wasn't out yet. When the 25 is gone I will just use the 50. Be sure to get a high percentage Alcohol and clean all the old lubricant off your firearms. I did a non formal test with Mil Comm products. I have 3 P228's, one is carried daily and shot quite a bit. The other two are pretty much safe queens for right now. After 2 years of shooting and using the Mil Comm products the pistol I carry daily is much smoother and slicker than the other 2. It simply takes times for it to bond to the surface. I am in no way connected with them, I tried their product and was very happy with it and I am telling others. They aren't cheap, but quality seldom is.
NCH |
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Final report:
First I heat up the parts with a hair dryer to the point that they're not too hot to touch, but too hot to hold for more than a few seconds with bare hands, if that makes any sense. Then I wipe them all down with MC2500 oil, every square inch of them. After they've cooled, I wipe off any excess oil. Even though you can't see any oil on them, they feel slicker. This layer is to get the teflon into the pores of the metals and finishes. The testing I've seen suggests that MC2500 is better for this than TW25B, theoretically due to its viscosity. The point is to provide corrosion protection for all parts, as well as to lay down a substrate on the parts that will need further lubrication. Next comes the TW25B. I apply it to the metal cold, anywhere there's friction or a moving part. This includes the entire BCG, the barrel extension, the upper receiver, and the takedown and pivot pins. And of course the charging handle. The trick is to use it very sparingly. You shouldn't be able to see it at all, and you really want to rub it in. The only place I leave excess is on the bolt tail, and that's just to make cleanup easier by preventing carbon from sticking, at least in theory. Finally comes the MC1210 for the heavy bearing surfaces. Again, sparingly. The only place I use this is on the BCG. I put some on the gas rings, the raised portion of the bolt body where it rides in the carrier, the cam pin, and on the four carrier rails. For the lower, I put a tiny drop of MC2500 on each contact point in FCG, then work it in by working the trigger, using my hand as a hammer stop of course. I then place a small amount of MC1210 on the top of the hammer where it makes contact with the carrier as it travels to the rear. The reason I use the MC1210 for this is because it stays where I put it. |
| On a last note, I do all my barrels the same. I heat them up, after cleaning of course, and apply the MC2500 oil. After cool down, I then remove any excess with a clean patch. With the same patch, I then apply the TW25B, running the patch through a few times to really rub everything in. Check with a bore light to make sure there's no excess hiding in there, and all is well. Like I said, the MC2500 seems to provide great corrosion resistance, while the TW25B seems to really prevent particulate from sticking. |
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I use a similar method for my Glock now, too, sans MC1210. I detail strip the slide, then heat up the parts with a hair dryer, then give them a spit polish with the MC2500, excluding the striker, which I dare not touch. I then use the TW25B in the "3" and "2" locations (see Glock manual or Google "Glock 3,2,1 system"), then a tiny drop of MC2500 in the trigger bar, being the "1" spot inside the frame indicated in the Glock manual. I feel like the MC2500 gets in there better than the TW25B.
Well, that's the final report. If you try it, let me know how it works for you. |
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