AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/6/2011 1:39:10 PM EDT
|
I have been using Hoppes #9 for a cleaner and BrekFree LP for a lubricant and protectant. It never made much sense to me to place a cleaner, in the same bottle as a lubricant, so I never used CLP. But the LP version seemed to work very well. I was getting low on cleaning products so I decided to see what was out there now. I did some research and kept seeing Mil-Comm being mentioned with high regard. In the end I ordered a $130 worth of their cleaner, grease and oil. I bought the small syringe for the grease and lube and a larger supply of each so I can reload the syringes when they get low. I also suggest ordering directly from Mil-Comm. It will cost a little bit more but you won't have the problems I had with Midway USA. I have delt with them for 25 years and never had a problem making a order like I did on this order. I finally gave up and ordered direct. One thing I read over and over that this is a cleaning system. For best results you need to use their cleaner, and then their grease and/or oil. Since these are all water based products it is very important that all residue of prior solvents or lubricants is removed. They recommend using 91% rubbing alcohol. I am slowly getting all my firearms switched over to Mil-Comm products. The syringes are so pinpoint accurate it allows you to put a micro spot of oil or grease exactly where you want it. The grease will stay in place and doesn't wander like other lubes. I used grease for the slide rails on my handguns and the MC2500 oil on everything else. My revolvers only get the MC2500 oil. What is interesting is the MC2500 oil is the same exact product as the TW25B grease. It is just a different viscosity. The more you use the weapon and the metallic parts go through different heat and cooling cycles it helps the grease and oil to penetrate the metal surface and form a very slick surface. Many of the reports I read said it gets better the more you use it. I understand I am at the very beginning of the process but I will report as time passes and let y'all know how it is going.
Another thing I realized is there are countless cleaning and lubricating products are the market and they all claim to be the best. The fact that Mil-Comm has been accepted by all branches of the military helped me to make my decision. Their MC25 cleaner doesn't cut copper fouling. But I have contacted Mil=Comm and on April 1st they will be announcing MC50 which will take care of copper fouling. I will be ordering a 16 oz bottle on April 2nd. Curious to see if anyone else is using their products, and with what success? NCHornet |
| I had emailed them a few questions and they highly recommended that I get all residue of previous cleaners and lubricants. I am sure some may be compatable and some aren't. With the huge variety that is currently available I can see why they would just say get any and all residual out of there. It really doesn't take long to wipe it down with the rubbing alcohol. As for the syringe. I thought about using a small bottle, or eye dropper to save a few bucks. I asked Mil-Comm if the syringes were reuseable and they said they were. I am really glad that I spent the extra and got the syringe. No way that even a eye dropper could get in areas that this syringe can. Not to mention that I can apply a very, very, very small amount. I have never used anything with greater control of placement and amount as these. |
|
This is one of the few lubes I've ever tried that did most of what it claimed to. Well, at least that I could see in my non-scientific testing. It works as a lube. Can't say much about that. It also does seem to keep carbon fouling from building up and sticking as bad as other lubes. I put some on the worst places to lube I could find to see how bad it would get. The gas piston of a couple M249 SAWs. I was curious how it would turn out, as CLP and Militec-1 just turn into a burned carbon mess. The TW25-b was the cleanest. It also kept buildup less in the rest of the guns, as well in the M16s I tried it in. And it lubed well.
I have read that it may not have the most anti-wear properties though. Anti-friction yes, but not so great anti-wear. Didn't make sense to me at the time as Tetra was said to be very good, and it seems they are very close to each other. Lots of PTFE in a grease carrier. And this was on a SIG forum, saying how it could allow the aluminum frame to wear too quickly. Which again seems odd since SIG now included a sample with all their guns. And as a disclaimer sort of thing, well we don't even carry it in the store. And if we did, it's one of the things, like the lubes we do carry that would only be carried in the store itself and not the website. So this is all my personal opinion, not trying to convince anyone to go and buy it from us. I've nothing to gain from praising this product. I'm tempted to try and get it in the store, but mostly for selfish reasons. I'd be able to get it for a lot less if we did! That was the reason I started using Tetra products years ago. It was cheaper than the TW25-b. And now that I work for a place that carries Tetra I can get it for even less. |
| Yes. The TW25B is exactly the same as the MC2500 it is just in a thicker grease form. I use the grease on the slide rails of my semi auto handguns. The grease also stays where you put it better than anything else that I have used. I am currently using the oil on my carrier but see no reson why the grease couldn't be used. |
|
Mil-Comm products work very well, you will notice an improvement on the first use, for the best results you will have to remove all other lubes and rinse with 91% Isopropyl Alcohol. To clean the carbon off I spray the MC-25 cleaner onto all parts to be cleaned and brush them to loosen the carbon build up. I have made up some MC-25 cleaning wipes to use after everything is brushed to remove the old lube & carbon, this is not a must, but it speeds things up a bunch. After everything is cleaned with the MC-25 cleaner I wipe it off with wipes that are soaked in TW25B-CX (AKA "TW25B-EP spray") and I use these the same way as BF's CLP wipes are used. I wipe everything down to get remaining dirt off and anything that needs lube from here gets a coating of TW25B grease... the gas rings & gas key each get a drop of MC-2500 Oil (AKA "TW25B-Oil").
To make my own wipes I use Rite Aid Alcohol Wipes, I let them dry out so I can add MC-25 cleaner to one container and TW25B-CX (AKA "TW25B-EP spray") to the other container. To lube my rifle, I follow the directions listed on the Mil-Comm site for an M-16 found here. |
|
Meat,
That is a great idea for making your own wipes. They would be great to take to the range or in the field. Just an update on Mil-Comm, I used the email form on the Mil-Comm website to send them four emails over a months time asking them if April first was still a valid date for coming out with their new MC50 product that will cut lead and copper fouling. When I failed to get a reply it really dropped my opinion of Mil-Comm. I own my own business and I practice what I preach. I just happened to stumble across their Facebook page and I decided to vent a little. I told them about not replying to my emails. I also sent my last email to them and telling them why I was upset. Instead of using the form on their website this time I manually entered the email address on my email program. The next morning I was really surprised to have a email sitting in my inbox from the CEO of Mil-Comm. Charles told me that he checked and they never received a email from me. The only one they had was the one I sent the might before. Then it clicked, I told Charles that all the emails that went unreplied to were sent via their email form on their website. Charles told me he was going to look into it and get back to me. A few days later I received another email from Charles with an apology, but also thanking me for pointing out the problem to him. He was shocked to find out that the form was useless as the emails were never forwarded and they just went no where. As a business owner myself the thought of all those emails going unread is not a pleasant thought. This could result in hundreds, or even thousands of customers sending a email by using their form that were never read by anyone. Charles was shocked that this had happened and I am sure he had some words for their tech people. Charles said most people wouldn't send multiple emails, they would simply give up and cross Mil-Comm products off their list. Of course the problem is now fixed so if you use the email form you will get a reply. However the MC50 has been delayed due to the manufacturers of the containers they decided to use for the MC50. Hopefully it will be released in the next few weeks. If you have ever used their syringes you will know they use some pretty cool packaging to put their products in. I am looking forward to trying the new MC50 out. If any of you have sent Mil-Comm a email that has gone unreplied to please try sending it again. I can promise you that Charles cares very much about the products they manufacture. I am glad I was able to help them discover this very important flaw with their website. |
|
I was initially turned onto Mil-comm here by a member with the screen name S-28 in about 2001,who had extensive use of the product as an armorer.Ive been using the Mil-comm every since.....on pistols primarilly..
That said I have run the AR's through a couple high round count carbine classes with excellent long term results. I have no bad comments about Mil-comm,it has worked well for me over the years.Certainly never had a weapon run dry using Mil-comm,or noted any excessive wear on my Beretta's,SIG's,1911 AR's etc. etc... Most recently broke in a new Zastava EZ9 straight out of the box using Mil-comm MC2500 and TW25B accordingly,and have noted no wear to the pistols painted frame,which I understand is know to have a fragile finish. As Unicorn stated the Mil-comm does stick around extremely well in use,and storage for that matter,and does aid in preventing fouling attachment even with direct exposure to excessive heat within the weapon.. I have a couple pistols that have been in storage for over two years(open air lockers) that I PM'd with MC2500 and TW25B.They look the same as the day I put them in the lockers which clearly indicates to me that evaporation of the lubes is not a concern. Here is a little further ramble on what Ive found to work for me: As far as application,I initially followed the application instructions to the letter.I actually was quite obsessive about it to the point it became a PIA.Which caused me to simplify my routine and just use the wipe off old and apply new technique and Ive seen no issues as a result. One other thing that almost drove me nuts was the dry look the TW25B gives a weapon when applied lightly,especially in EP form.This caused me to over lubricate weapons initially which quickly showed to be an issue as it caused undue debris attachment.So make sure to use the specified amounts to the parts needs and do not over lube....more aint better on every part of the weapon,especially the exterior. To me the MC25 cleaner works well at removing oils and loose fouling,but does not do much for hard carbon or petroleum based greases.About the only use I have for the MC25 is for cleaning/flushing a bore after using Hoppe's No.9 solvent or similar.I do not use the MC25 or the alcohol wipe down for prep.. I would not use the MC25 cleaner in hard to reach or confined areas such as the FCG,pins etc.. as it will be difficult to dry the parts. As a note,I would be careful about using the alcohol wipe down,TW25B EP or TW25B wipes on painted surfaces.Some paints do not behave well with alcohol and come right off.So if you have a spay paint camo job or stove black touched up receivers I'd make note.....ask me how I found out. That said Ive found that just wiping the parts as dry as you can of lube from previous use(CLP etc.),then wiping the parts down with MC2500 as I would with a CLP works well too.As a note the MC2500 oil works extremely well as a CLP,albeit expensive for that purpose,it penetrates/creeps and cleans about as well as most of the CLP's....which is certainly helpful in the field. The TW25B in EP form is also a very good CLP,but Ive found its hard to carry in the field beyond the TW25B wipes. Ive also found that the TW25B tends to work a bit longer as a lube if the parts have a light film of MC2500 oil on the parts before TW25B application,kind of like a floater if you will.It also enhances the corrosion protection from what Ive seen in my redneck tests and personal use.. I talked with Gordon Furlong at Mil-comm a few years back about this and he said he had heard others mention the same. He also recommended that I try the MC3000 semi-fluid which is also an excellent product that does not get the attention it deserves.Closely resembles LSA-T IMHO and is great for folks who like a high viscosity oil rather than the dry looking TW25B.. As far as PM Ive found that the parts basically wipe clean with a cloth,patch or q-tip as advertised.If I do encounter any hard carbon I simply apply a bit of MC2500 oil and scrub with a tooth brush or similar.Then apply the TW25B to the bearing areas and MC2500 oil to the FCG,pins etc..Takes me about ten minutes to PM a pistol using the Mil-comm. Otherwise Ive found that the most important factor to applying the Mil-comm is to simply get it on a clean as possible weapon and use it.The Mil-comm will displace other lubes and fouling through use rather quickly in my experience. As far as the folks at Mil-comm....they are absolutely golden.Some of the most kind and open folks Ive ever dealt with. Sorry for the ramble. |
|
Quoted:
I am no chemist or metal expert. But common sense tells me that if friction is reduced so is wear? I did quite a bit of research and I never heard that this was a problem. I don't like mixing different products. We will see how it works out. I can't remember the reasoning. Possibly something about anti-wear additives and how the slide and frame wear during the higher pressure during firing? Not sure if any of the parts in a gun rub that tightly together under pressure like parts in an engine do though. |
AR Sponsor