Quoted:
I've been reading up on the MillCom products as well as the slip 2000 products.
 Since my Ar gets lonely sitting in my safe for a mounth or so every now and then the TW25B looked to be a promising product.

After researching both product lines I see where both are making their own cleaner. MC 25 and Slip 725 are the respective products and both are water based.  MillCom wants all parts void of any type of oil lube, etc. before applying their lube for optimum results. They say this can be done with their MC25 or by using 91% isoprlyl alcohol.

Here is my concern. When you strip a steel part of all lube, oil ,or protectant it must all be relubed if not it becomes a rust magnet. Miss 1 tiny spot and you will find it.  Water based products would seem to me to make the problem that much worse.

What I've used for awhile is a gallon bucket with kerosene or mineral spirits  with some BFclp added. Slosh the parts around in the bucket , scrub with a nylon brush , slosh some more, blow off with an air gun, and lay them out on news paper to finish drying off. After everything is prettty dry apply lube to the places that need it and shoot away. The reminants of the kerosene or mineral spirits + clp keeps things from rusting.

If you totally degrease especially with a water based product how do you get total rust prevention?

Quoted:
Thanks to all for the replies.  I think I'll stick with my bucket of kerosene.

Quoted:
You are correct about untreated metal becoming a problem quickly. I don't know anything about the MilCom or Slip products (but neither do most other folks here, they are repeating marketing claims and stuff they've read elsewhere, plus sharing anecdotal experiences), but I do something similar to your method to make sure everything is coated.

I keep an ammo can with about a 3-1 mix of deodorized mineral spirits and FP-10 CLP for dunking parts that I have soaked in some homemade ed's red to get the red off. If I ever clean a part with brake cleaner (rarely) for any reason or if I get a new part, I'll soak it in the mineral spirits/CLP mix figuring that it will get into pretty much everywhere and when the mineral spirits evaporate, there should be a thin film of CLP left. I think it's a good thing for any gun owner to have a container like an ammo can with enough of a mix of something like this (your kerosene and BF CLP is fine, too) so you can dunk parts.

About Slip and Millcomm being water based, I don't know enough to be worried or not worried. But I figure the folks who designed it for guns know enough to not be too stupid about it, and based on what I've read about Slip, I'd happily use it.

That said, it simply amazes me the amount of heat and smoke generated over cleaning products and procedures here. It's amazing! Guys getting all worked up and angry at folks who clean too much or too little or who advocate for this or that product. It's insane! There's no question AR types will go a long way without cleaning if they are kept well lubed. It's not an opinion, there have been enough posts about the gun going thousands of rounds between cleanings and working fine. This is if they are shot often and not left sitting, by the way. I may not clean if I am going to shoot a few days in a row or even two weekends in a row, I'll just lube. You shouldn't put a gun away for an extended time without cleaning it, though. You can keep a range gun going a long time with just lube, but a gun that sits a long time dirty can give you problems later.

On the other hand, folks get mad at other folks for advocating cleaning too much! If you are using CLP and plastic brushes and boresnakes, who cares? It is impossible to muck up a rifle with stuff like that, although over use of harsh chemicals, stiff brushes, metal rods, etcetera certainly can take their toll.

And the arguments over products? Uber insane! The chemistry of this stuff is going to be way beyond most of our understanding, but it's not that tough a decision to make. It's a weird part of our makeup as human beings that we want to know what is 'best' even if there is no best. A recent post by a member with photos of an aging steel plate with a half dozen products in a rust test seemed to indicate BF CLP was the best one out of his sample group. Fancy that! The Army got something right???

I have a gallon of FP-10, not because I think it's the best stuff on earth, but because I wanted a product that most seemed to like and which seemed to work well and buy it cheaply. So putting a pint in an ammo can with 3 pints of mineral spirits wouldn't cost me a fortune. So I can put little containers of it in all my range bags, and several on the bench. When it's gone (it's lasted years) I'll get a gallon of something else, maybe Weapons Shield, or even (gasp) BF CLP.

I don't know why I started this rant. Maybe because in another thread on cleaning frequency someone posted they wanted to punch babies they were so upset over the discussion. Anyway, I just wanted to say you are on the right track (I think) dunking parts that have been completely stripped in your spirits/CLP solution. You probably don't have to worry about Slip causing rust because it's aqueous, I suspect the engineers know what they are doing.

But I'd also say it's probably a waste of time to over-think the product decision as long as you stick with a gun-specific product that has been around a while, is widely used, and generally well thought of. I wouldn't go buy the latest 'miracle brew' as soon as it hits the market because it's probably not light years ahead of what you are using now, even though it says so on their website in big red letters.

[/ rant] I need more coffee.

Quoted:
You are correct about untreated metal becoming a problem quickly. I don't know anything about the MilCom or Slip products (but neither do most other folks here, they are repeating marketing claims and stuff they've read elsewhere, plus sharing anecdotal experiences), but I do something similar to your method to make sure everything is coated.

I keep an ammo can with about a 3-1 mix of deodorized mineral spirits and FP-10 CLP for dunking parts that I have soaked in some homemade ed's red to get the red off. If I ever clean a part with brake cleaner (rarely) for any reason or if I get a new part, I'll soak it in the mineral spirits/CLP mix figuring that it will get into pretty much everywhere and when the mineral spirits evaporate, there should be a thin film of CLP left. I think it's a good thing for any gun owner to have a container like an ammo can with enough of a mix of something like this (your kerosene and BF CLP is fine, too) so you can dunk parts.

About Slip and Millcomm being water based, I don't know enough to be worried or not worried. But I figure the folks who designed it for guns know enough to not be too stupid about it, and based on what I've read about Slip, I'd happily use it.

That said, it simply amazes me the amount of heat and smoke generated over cleaning products and procedures here. It's amazing! Guys getting all worked up and angry at folks who clean too much or too little or who advocate for this or that product. It's insane! There's no question AR types will go a long way without cleaning if they are kept well lubed. It's not an opinion, there have been enough posts about the gun going thousands of rounds between cleanings and working fine. This is if they are shot often and not left sitting, by the way. I may not clean if I am going to shoot a few days in a row or even two weekends in a row, I'll just lube. You shouldn't put a gun away for an extended time without cleaning it, though. You can keep a range gun going a long time with just lube, but a gun that sits a long time dirty can give you problems later.

On the other hand, folks get mad at other folks for advocating cleaning too much! If you are using CLP and plastic brushes and boresnakes, who cares? It is impossible to muck up a rifle with stuff like that, although over use of harsh chemicals, stiff brushes, metal rods, etcetera certainly can take their toll.

And the arguments over products? Uber insane! The chemistry of this stuff is going to be way beyond most of our understanding, but it's not that tough a decision to make. It's a weird part of our makeup as human beings that we want to know what is 'best' even if there is no best. A recent post by a member with photos of an aging steel plate with a half dozen products in a rust test seemed to indicate BF CLP was the best one out of his sample group. Fancy that! The Army got something right???

I have a gallon of FP-10, not because I think it's the best stuff on earth, but because I wanted a product that most seemed to like and which seemed to work well and buy it cheaply. So putting a pint in an ammo can with 3 pints of mineral spirits wouldn't cost me a fortune. So I can put little containers of it in all my range bags, and several on the bench. When it's gone (it's lasted years) I'll get a gallon of something else, maybe Weapons Shield, or even (gasp) BF CLP.

I don't know why I started this rant. Maybe because in another thread on cleaning frequency someone posted they wanted to punch babies they were so upset over the discussion. Anyway, I just wanted to say you are on the right track (I think) dunking parts that have been completely stripped in your spirits/CLP solution. You probably don't have to worry about Slip causing rust because it's aqueous, I suspect the engineers know what they are doing.

But I'd also say it's probably a waste of time to over-think the product decision as long as you stick with a gun-specific product that has been around a while, is widely used, and generally well thought of. I wouldn't go buy the latest 'miracle brew' as soon as it hits the market because it's probably not light years ahead of what you are using now, even though it says so on their website in big red letters.

[/ rant] I need more coffee.