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Posted: 3/27/2010 11:50:49 AM EDT
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How wet is too wet for an ar? Is there such a thing as too much lube say if after cleaning the BCG i took it and dunked it in a thing if lube would that be too much? |
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You dont put any lube in the bore or the chamber? For storage, yes, on ones I don't keep at the ready. Before shooting I dry patch the bore a couple times. For my SHTF guns that are ready all the time, they are chrome lined so the bore is kept dry when stored. |
| the field manual has specific lubing instructions. specific points that need either a light coat or just enough to be able to spread. its funny on some subjects people are adamant about following the TM to the letter but on lubing they have no problem going all out to excess. |
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the field manual has specific lubing instructions. specific points that need either a light coat or just enough to be able to spread. its funny on some subjects people are adamant about following the TM to the letter but on lubing they have no problem going all out to excess. Because it's a well known fact that over lubrication will do no harm, whereas lack of lubrication can and eventually will cause a malfunction. The TM isn't gospel, just a good guideline. Many experienced instructors will confirm. |
| I'm of that mindset. I have never seen an AR not run because it was over lubed but I have seen numerous rifles not run because they were underlubed. I lube mine a lot and mine rifles run 100% for hundreds to 1000's of rounds before more lube or a cleaning is needed. |
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No, not if you shake off the excess. It will be just right, IMO. Just keep the chamber and the barrel DRY. +1. You really can't over-lube the BCG, the worst that will happen is you'll get a little spit at your face on the first few rounds. Yup, it will not hurt a thing if it is very wet. In my personal experiences the barrel and chamber need not be super dry. I have never had a single malfunction because my barrel or chamber had a light coat of oil. ETA: Removing the oil from the barrel is IMHO unneccesary and the oil in the chamber just made cleanup easier. |
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Well, when a 16 (or any MG) stops running after digesting fine high quality Wolf all day, we just spray the crap out of it with CLP or whatever's handy. Then we go back and shoot it some more. Yeah, cleaning before relubing is best, but sometimes we want to just keep shoooting through a volley.
I suppose the contrarian would just wipe off as much crud as he can, then run it dry. There are reasons nobody ever does this at a shoot. First, it doesn't work. Second, the result is accelerated parts breakage, galling, etc. Sam |
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Don't forget that dirt will stick to all that oil and wear down your parts. I recommend using small amounts of gun grease in the places where you know there is going to be friction. The grease stays where you put it better than liquid. Not true. Over lubrication will never cause accelerated wear, never. |
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Quoted: Don't forget that dirt will stick to all that oil and wear down your parts. I recommend using small amounts of gun grease in the places where you know there is going to be friction. The grease stays where you put it better than liquid. +1.....I agree with the answer above. IMO,Painting or slopping oil all over every metal surface is not the correct answer. Sure it is easy to pour oil everywhere and it take no knowledge of the working of the gun for a new recruit to do this. Thus you see this in basic training where one is under time/results constraints to keep the guns running to acceptable levels/etc. But if the truth is told...... All parts of the bolt carrier are not even in contact with the upper receiver. The AR-15 bolt carrier rides on " rails " and the gun needs lube mainly when it has metal to metal contact or has friction points. It takes just a little more understanding of how the Ar-15 bolt carrier assemble works to do it better than slinging oil everywhere. (link) |
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the field manual has specific lubing instructions. specific points that need either a light coat or just enough to be able to spread. its funny on some subjects people are adamant about following the TM to the letter but on lubing they have no problem going all out to excess. Because it's a well known fact that over lubrication will do no harm, whereas lack of lubrication can and eventually will cause a malfunction. The TM isn't gospel, just a good guideline. Many experienced instructors will confirm. i have been doing nothing but teaching M16 for the military for 17 years. Can I consider myself experienced? When I go to the range it is a 100K round range day so Id say I have seen my share of issues with this thing. I can count the number of times a weapon wouldnt work due to lack of lubrication on one hand. Bad magazines, bent gas key, etc have caused more malfuntions than dryness have. Yes soaking wet will do nothing but spray off the excess in your face and turn all the moving parts into sandpaper in some of the crappiest parts of the world. Thats why the op manual suggests different cleaning styles for the environment. In the Colt armorers school they proved that only a few drops on the gas rings and gas key on an otherwise mechanically sound rifle were all this thing needed to stay working. But what do I know. |
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Quoted: Opinions are fine, but fact of the matter is too much lubrication is better than too little, and over lubrication will not cause premature wear, whereas lack there of will. For any newbie reading this listen to the majority, run it wet. Ok, I"ll bite on this.....where did you learn this about slopping oil everywhere? I don't think you learned this in the Military? |
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the field manual has specific lubing instructions. specific points that need either a light coat or just enough to be able to spread. its funny on some subjects people are adamant about following the TM to the letter but on lubing they have no problem going all out to excess. Because it's a well known fact that over lubrication will do no harm, whereas lack of lubrication can and eventually will cause a malfunction. The TM isn't gospel, just a good guideline. Many experienced instructors will confirm. i have been doing nothing but teaching M16 for the military for 17 years. Can I consider myself experienced? When I go to the range it is a 100K round range day so Id say I have seen my share of issues with this thing. I can count the number of times a weapon wouldnt work due to lack of lubrication on one hand. Bad magazines, bent gas key, etc have caused more malfuntions than dryness have. Yes soaking wet will do nothing but spray off the excess in your face and turn all the moving parts into sandpaper in some of the crappiest parts of the world. Thats why the op manual suggests different cleaning styles for the environment. In the Colt armorers school they proved that only a few drops on the gas rings and gas key on an otherwise mechanically sound rifle were all this thing needed to stay working. But what do I know. That's interesting, because if what you say about your experience is true, then you have seen many many many more rounds downrange than I have. However, I have seen several folks at my range with ARs having malfunctions, half the time it's due to shitty mags, and the other half because their BCG is bone dry. After a good dose of lube on their bolt and carrier rails, the weapons run 100% for the remainder of the range session. And I have seen the bone dry scenario more times than I can count on one hand. I have yet to witness a malfunction due to too much lube though. This article is written by a guy who has probably seen more rounds down range than just about anybody: http://www.ar15.com/content/swat/keepitrunning.pdf |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: the field manual has specific lubing instructions. specific points that need either a light coat or just enough to be able to spread. its funny on some subjects people are adamant about following the TM to the letter but on lubing they have no problem going all out to excess. Because it's a well known fact that over lubrication will do no harm, whereas lack of lubrication can and eventually will cause a malfunction. The TM isn't gospel, just a good guideline. Many experienced instructors will confirm. i have been doing nothing but teaching M16 for the military for 17 years. Can I consider myself experienced? When I go to the range it is a 100K round range day so Id say I have seen my share of issues with this thing. I can count the number of times a weapon wouldnt work due to lack of lubrication on one hand. Bad magazines, bent gas key, etc have caused more malfuntions than dryness have. Yes soaking wet will do nothing but spray off the excess in your face and turn all the moving parts into sandpaper in some of the crappiest parts of the world. Thats why the op manual suggests different cleaning styles for the environment. In the Colt armorers school they proved that only a few drops on the gas rings and gas key on an otherwise mechanically sound rifle were all this thing needed to stay working. But what do I know. That's interesting, because if what you say about your experience is true, then you have seen many many many more rounds downrange than I have. However, I have seen several folks at my range with ARs having malfunctions, half the time it's due to shitty mags, and the other half because their BCG is bone dry. After a good dose of lube on their bolt and carrier rails, the weapons run 100% for the remainder of the range session. And I have seen the bone dry scenario more times than I can count on one hand. I have yet to witness a malfunction due to too much lube though. This article is written by a guy who has probably seen more rounds down range than just about anybody: http://www.ar15.com/content/swat/keepitrunning.pdf From the East coast to the West coast, everyone and his brother has a favorite lube or a favorite way to lube the AR-15. All AR-15 instructors don't teach the same method either. This is probably a good thing as we don't get stuck in one method and we keep improving the AR lubrication with new products and methods. |
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aceduece, This is exactly the way my instructor/ gunsmith showed me to lube my carbine. The only difference is we use white lithium grease. I was told that lubing anything else was a waist, and inviting more dirt and grit to stick and build up on the bolt. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but this is the part that I really disagree with. As more lube than needed might be a waist, it doesn't contribute to a dirtier bolt, and some might argue that it actually inhibits carbon build up. |
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Quoted: aceduece, This is exactly the way my instructor/ gunsmith showed me to lube my carbine. The only difference is we use white lithium grease. I was told that lubing anything else was a waist, and inviting more dirt and grit to stick and build up on the bolt. Everything else is a waste......... as it does not contact the "upper receiver rails" and the " bolt carrier rails". Slopping oil everywhere is just making the bolt wet/oily until it burns or evaporate off. I can probably see putting drops of oil into the two holes if you had prolonged firings, as the hot bolt and carbon gases can be a problem. I think grease in the right place just last longer. Hey....things change. |
| Interesting for a newbie to AR/M rifles, but definitely not firearms. I've always felt a little too much is better than a bit too little in handguns. There is a school of thought that says put lube on every metal part––very thin coat, and liberally on metal to metal contact parts. That always made sense to me. Heavier on the BCG rails, light on the outside of the bolt, light in the bore and heavier in the fire control group. I like silicone rags on the outside wipe down rather than oil these days. Judging from the wear inside my Hi-Power after almost 40 years, this has worked well for me and I'll continue on my M-4. |
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Quoted: I'm of that mindset. I have never seen an AR not run because it was over lubed but I have seen numerous rifles not run because they were underlubed. I lube mine a lot and mine rifles run 100% for hundreds to 1000's of rounds before more lube or a cleaning is needed. I heard many soldiers dunking their M16s in CLP just before qualification on the range. |
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