AR Sponsor
Posted: 7/31/2009 9:17:35 AM EDT
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What the best method for cleaning the lower receiver? With all the springs/metal parts in there it's pretty much impossible to use a brush.
So far I've been blowing out all contaminates with Gun Scrubber and then follow up with coating everything in Break-Free CLP. Should I clean my Lower after every trip to the range? I ask because it doesn't seem to get as dirty as everything in the Upper. As far as the Upper Receiver is concerned (not the Bolt Carrier Group) do any of you coat the entire interior with CLP? Or just the rails the BCG rides on? I scrub the Upper with a nylon brush, blow out with Gun Scrubber, and soak a few patches with CLP and wipe down the entire inside of the Upper Receiver. |
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Quoted: What the best method for cleaning the lower receiver? There is no best method. Just use whatever works for you. I use CLP and a USGI toothbrush. With all the springs/metal parts in there it's pretty much impossible to use a brush. Nah, you can do it. So far I've been blowing out all contaminates with Gun Scrubber and then follow up with coating everything in Break-Free CLP. That should work just fine. I'd blast out the lower with compressed air after the Gun Scrubber and before a light CLP lube. Should I clean my Lower after every trip to the range? I ask because it doesn't seem to get as dirty as everything in the Upper. You don't have to. I clean it when it gets visibly dirty. Otherwise I just wrap an old rag around my finger and wipe out any large particles. As far as the Upper Receiver is concerned (not the Bolt Carrier Group) do any of you coat the entire interior with CLP? Yes, or another lubricant. I use Slip2000 EWL. I'd rather have a slightly too much lube than slightly too little lube. Or just the rails the BCG rides on? I scrub the Upper with a nylon brush, blow out with Gun Scrubber, and soak a few patches with CLP and wipe down the entire inside of the Upper Receiver. That should work just fine. Like I said before, if I use a solvent like GunScrubber, I blast it with compressed air and give it a good wipe-down with a dry rag before adding lubrication. My comments in red. |
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i never clean my lower, only my upper. i do check the buffer tube though
edit: obviously a light film of oil should be on all bearing surfaces like the hammer, sear, etc but my lower just never seems to get real dirty. then again i've only shot about 400 rounds through it since i bought it 3 or so yrs ago b/c the range is an hr away and ammo is expensive a sure way to screw up your ar15 is by overlubing it. i'd say less lube is MUCH better than more lube, especially on the bolt carrier. i definitely don't put ANY lube on the actual receiver. too much lube will cause your gun to get dirtier more quickly and can clog the gas tube or buffer tube eventually. obviously you know that lube attracts dirt like a magnet, and grit is the enemy of metal parts which rub together |
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the fact that all manufacturers, armorers, gunsmiths, and well informed enthusiasts agree with me
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i never clean my lower, only my upper. i do check the buffer tube though edit: obviously a light film of oil should be on all bearing surfaces like the hammer, sear, etc but my lower just never seems to get real dirty. then again i've only shot about 400 rounds through it since i bought it 3 or so yrs ago b/c the range is an hr away and ammo is expensive a sure way to screw up your ar15 is by overlubing it. i'd say less lube is MUCH better than more lube, especially on the bolt carrier This could not be further from the truth. What gives you that idea? edit: i remove the bcg, buffer, and spring and coat inside of the whole upper receiver with clp let is soak a minute and scrub with a brush then wipe clean with a rag and some cutips being sure not to leave lint or dust from the rag/cutips. i do the same to the bcg and i give a light coat of clp to the moving parts on the bcg. i wipe out my buffer tube with a rag and a dowell and give the buffer spring a LIGHT coat of clp. i inspect the lower and see that it's good to go with no buildup of carbon and has a light coat of clp on the bearing surfaces in the trigger group. then i reassemble |
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Quoted: i never clean my lower, only my upper. i do check the buffer tube though edit: obviously a light film of oil should be on all bearing surfaces like the hammer, sear, etc but my lower just never seems to get real dirty. then again i've only shot about 400 rounds through it since i bought it 3 or so yrs ago b/c the range is an hr away and ammo is expensive a sure way to screw up your ar15 is by overlubing it. i'd say less lube is MUCH better than more lube, especially on the bolt carrier. i definitely don't put ANY lube on the actual receiver. too much lube will cause your gun to get dirtier more quickly and can clog the gas tube or buffer tube eventually This could not be further from the truth. #1 - A dirty, but wet, AR will still run. A slightly dirty, but dry, AR will fail (eventually.) #2 - Lubrication is not magnetic towards dirt and particles. Where does this myth come from? #3 - Do you think any lubrication or dirt in the gas tube stands a snowball's chance in hell against 52,000 PSI? Also, I'm not really sure how the buffer tube can be "clogged". Take your rifle to a carbine course and run it hard. I'm talking ~800+ rounds a day, 2-3 days in a row. My wet BCG will run, no questions asked, and I know it. Will yours? |
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the ar15 will run fine wet, but unless your shooting full auto in a very dust/dirt free environment a light coat of oil is the better choice
edit: the oil doesn't magnetically attract dirt, but rather more dirt will more easily stick to a heavily oiled part than a lightly oiled part. |
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Quoted: Quoted: the fact that all manufacturers, armorers, gunsmiths, and well informed enthusiasts agree with meQuoted: i never clean my lower, only my upper. i do check the buffer tube though edit: obviously a light film of oil should be on all bearing surfaces like the hammer, sear, etc but my lower just never seems to get real dirty. then again i've only shot about 400 rounds through it since i bought it 3 or so yrs ago b/c the range is an hr away and ammo is expensive a sure way to screw up your ar15 is by overlubing it. i'd say less lube is MUCH better than more lube, especially on the bolt carrier This could not be further from the truth. What gives you that idea? edit: i remove the bcg, buffer, and spring and coat inside of the whole upper receiver with clp let is soak a minute and scrub with a brush then wipe clean with a rag and some cutips being sure not to leave lint or dust from the rag/cutips. i do the same to the bcg and i give a light coat of clp to the moving parts on the bcg. i wipe out my buffer tube with a rag and a dowell and give the buffer spring a LIGHT coat of clp. i inspect the lower and see that it's good to go with no buildup of carbon and has a light coat of clp on the bearing surfaces in the trigger group. then i reassemble "ALL" is a pretty encompassing word to use here. Name one. Then take a look at this article - Keep Your Carbine Running. Oh, and Pat Rogers, the author of that published article? Yeah, manufacturers, armorers, gunsmiths, and well-informed enthusiasts go to him for advice. |
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i'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just saying that for the average shooter less oil is the better choice. in my experience too much lube in a gun that sits leads to a sticky, gummed up weapon. obviously you want everything to be very well lubed if you're shooting 1000 rounds in a few days.
edit: so if by dirty you mean lots of fouling and carbon then yea more clp is your friend. but if by dirty you mean in the sandbox, more clp is your enemy unless you clean out the crud periodically |
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Quoted: i'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just saying that for the average shooter less oil is the better choice. in my experience too much lube in a gun that sits leads to a sticky, gummed up weapon. obviously you want everything to be very well lubed if you're shooting 1000 rounds in a few days. If that's the case, then you need to switch to a different lubricant. No lubricant should lead to a "sticky, gummed-up weapon". |
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Quoted: i'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just saying that for the average shooter less oil is the better choice. in my experience too much lube in a gun that sits leads to a sticky, gummed up weapon. obviously you want everything to be very well lubed if you're shooting 1000 rounds in a few days. edit: so if by dirty you mean lots of fouling and carbon then yea more clp is your friend. but if by dirty you mean in the sandbox, more clp is your enemy unless you clean out the crud periodically Hmm. I've been there. Twice. Have you? Because more lube is still your best bet, and if you had been, you would know that. I'm not calling you out, I'm telling you that in every environment I've ever been in with ARs and M16s, more lube was ALWAYS better. Even in Iraq. |
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and well-informed enthusiasts go to him for advice. I call them Goofball Lackies, but either way.... 
I basically agree that running the AR wet is good, but people who coat the exterior of the carrier with lube are wasting lube and creating an unnessesary surface for blown particles to stick to. It's not even debateable that an oily part with have dust stick to it more easily than a dry surface. And when you get all that overlube on the outside of the carrier slinging back into the RE, you have another area that can turn into a total mess. My philosophy is really wet IN the carrier and all over the bolt, and not so much on the exterior of the carrier. (ETA: The exterior has minimal bearing points. Lube spashed all over the outside of the carrier does no good anyway as 95% of the carrier isn' t touching the receiver anyway.) |
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here's a quote from pat rogers:
"Consider that your carbine is a machine, and like an internal combustion engine, it requires lubrication to make it function. There are certain wear points in the gun that need attention, and failure to do so can cause a stoppage. A good rule of thumb is to look for shiny marks, which indicates metal to metal contact. If it shines, get it wet. This is the cleaning protocol that I use. This isn’t “the” way, but rather “A” way. I don’t pretend to know everything, and I wind up learning something new about every day. " |
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i never meant to imply that you don't know what you're talking about, that couldn't be further from the truth. you've not given any misinformation but rather good advice. i am merely clarifying what you've said so the OP doesn't just lather everything up with clp and cause cleaning to become more of a pain the ass than it needs to be.
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i'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just saying that for the average shooter less oil is the better choice. in my experience too much lube in a gun that sits leads to a sticky, gummed up weapon. obviously you want everything to be very well lubed if you're shooting 1000 rounds in a few days. edit: so if by dirty you mean lots of fouling and carbon then yea more clp is your friend. but if by dirty you mean in the sandbox, more clp is your enemy unless you clean out the crud periodically Hmm. I've been there. Twice. Have you? Because more lube is still your best bet, and if you had been, you would know that. I'm not calling you out, I'm telling you that in every environment I've ever been in with ARs and M16s, more lube was ALWAYS better. Even in Iraq. edit: Quoted:
it was Hoppes gun oil on my ruger 10/22 that sat for several years, before i discovered CLP
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i'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just saying that for the average shooter less oil is the better choice. in my experience too much lube in a gun that sits leads to a sticky, gummed up weapon. obviously you want everything to be very well lubed if you're shooting 1000 rounds in a few days. If that's the case, then you need to switch to a different lubricant. No lubricant should lead to a "sticky, gummed-up weapon". |
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Call me a "Goofball Lacky", but here's another quote from Pat Rogers in the same article: "The AR system runs much better wet than dry, and we see that during every class." In my original reply to this thread, I said, "I'd rather have a slightly too much lube than slightly too little lube." This doesn't mean that I'm a Pat Rogers ass-kisser, but it does mean that my experiences mimic his. |
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the ar15 will run fine wet, but unless your shooting full auto in a very dust/dirt free environment a light coat of oil is the better choice edit: the oil doesn't magnetically attract dirt, but rather more dirt will more easily stick to a heavily oiled part than a lightly oiled part. No, you are wrong, for an AR15 BCG, wetter is better, period. |
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Thanks for the advice fellas. Seems like I'm on the right track. As far as the Bolt Carrier goes, I only lube the "shiny" parts....but the Bolt itself I run soaking wet. I haven't tried the Slip2000 EWL yet. Seems promising.
I just purchased a 16" LMT Defender 2000. It's great! Got about 130 round through her so far. This is my first "AR" and the maintenance processes are much more involved than what I'm used to on my SIG556. http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad198/caritoam/LMT_M4A3.jpg |
| Back to the OPs question, the lower doesn't really require that much attention, I typically use a q-tip with a little CLP to clean what I can in and around the FCG ,and every 500 rds or so I'll clean the buffer spring and inside the buffer tube, that's really about it. |
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i don't think your a goofball or an ass-kisser.
Call me a "Goofball Lacky", but here's another quote from Pat Rogers in the same article: "The AR system runs much better wet than dry, and we see that during every class." In my original reply to this thread, I said, "I'd rather have a slightly too much lube than slightly too little lube." This doesn't mean that I'm a Pat Rogers ass-kisser, but it does mean that my experiences mimic his. Quoted:
Hmm. I've been there. Twice. Have you? no i have not, thankfully. thank you for your service edit: nice rifle OP |
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Quoted: Thanks for the advice fellas. Seems like I'm on the right track. As far as the Bolt Carrier goes, I only lube the "shiny" parts....but the Bolt itself I run soaking wet. I haven't tried the Slip2000 EWL yet. Seems promising. I just purchased a 16" LMT Defender 2000. It's great! Got about 130 round through her so far. This is my first "AR" and the maintenance processes are much more involved than what I'm used to on my SIG556. http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad198/caritoam/LMT_M4A3.jpg Very nice rifle. Just how I like 'em, nice and simple. I think you'll find that most here who have tried Slip2000 products are happy with the results. CLP will work just fine, too...I used it for years with great results. The biggest benefit of Slip2000 over CLP for me is that it doesn't seem to evaporate nearly as quickly. ETA: The only problem with Slip2000 stuff for me is that it's not available at Wal-Mart or any of my local gun shops. I usually order it online. |
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not when you only shoot 50 rounds and let it sit for 2 weeks. wetter is better in a carbine class when you're shooting 300+ rounds in a day.
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the ar15 will run fine wet, but unless your shooting full auto in a very dust/dirt free environment a light coat of oil is the better choice edit: the oil doesn't magnetically attract dirt, but rather more dirt will more easily stick to a heavily oiled part than a lightly oiled part. No, you are wrong, for an AR15 BCG, wetter is better, period. Quoted:
ETA: The only problem with Slip2000 stuff for me is that it's not available at Wal-Mart or any of my local gun shops. I usually order it online. i'd like to try that, where do get it on the cheap? |
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Quoted: Quoted: ETA: The only problem with Slip2000 stuff for me is that it's not available at Wal-Mart or any of my local gun shops. I usually order it online. i'd like to try that, where do get it on the cheap? I usually get it from BravoCompany. They're not always the cheapest, but I have some loyalty towards them due to kick-ass customer service I've received in the past. Unfortunately, they appear to be out of stock in both the Slip 2000 EWL and regular Gun Lube in the 4 oz. sizes at the moment. They do have the little 1 oz. bottles in stock though. Also, Brownell's and MidwayUSA both carry Slip 2000 products. |
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thx
I usually get it from BravoCompany. They're not always the cheapest, but I have some loyalty towards them due to kick-ass customer service I've received in the past. Unfortunately, they appear to be out of stock in both the Slip 2000 EWL and regular Gun Lube in the 4 oz. sizes at the moment. They do have the little 1 oz. bottles in stock though. Also, Brownell's and MidwayUSA both carry Slip 2000 products. |
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Not sure what you mean by "best". After every 2k or so I go at the lower with Q-tips soaked with either CLP or Kroil. Its pretty easy to get most everywhere.
After the last shoot I got home and decided to go at it with Brake cleaner. That was the first time for me......after having put around 24k on that lower. Relube: about everything gets a CLP coating followed by wipedown. Not soggy wet, just not dry. I leave the rings, extractor cutout area, cam pin, all bolt carrier bearing surfaces slightly more wet. I do likewise with all FCG pins and holes in the lower. Sam |
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ETA: The only problem with Slip2000 stuff for me is that it's not available at Wal-Mart or any of my local gun shops. I usually order it online. i'd like to try that, where do get it on the cheap? I usually get it from BravoCompany. They're not always the cheapest, but I have some loyalty towards them due to kick-ass customer service I've received in the past. Unfortunately, they appear to be out of stock in both the Slip 2000 EWL and regular Gun Lube in the 4 oz. sizes at the moment. They do have the little 1 oz. bottles in stock though. Also, Brownell's and MidwayUSA both carry Slip 2000 products. BravoCompany is an EXCELLENT place to shop. I purchased their in-house BCM Bolt Carrier Group on advice that it's pretty much the best there is out there. I also got my LMT Upper from them. They do have kick-ass customer service and their shipping is the fastest I've experienced. |
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BTW....as far as a rust preventitive on the oustide of my rifles...Eezox is all I use. I don't consider it that great of a lube, but it's the VERY BEST protectant in my opinion.
This is why: http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html |
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Quoted: BTW....as far as a rust preventitive on the oustide of my rifles...Eezox is all I use. I don't consider it that great of a lube, but it's the VERY BEST protectant in my opinion. This is why: http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html Interesting...haven't heard of that stuff. I'm not too concerned about rusting on my ARs, not only because they're ARs but also because I shoot and clean them often enough. I might give that a shot on some of my older firearms that have been sitting for a few years. Thanks for the tip! |
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Forgot to mention that MidwayUSA sells Eezox.
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?tabid=6&categoryid=17542&categorystring=10612***678***19867***&brandId=2552 |
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BTW....as far as a rust preventitive on the oustide of my rifles...Eezox is all I use. I don't consider it that great of a lube, but it's the VERY BEST protectant in my opinion. This is why: http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html I too like Eezox as a rust preventative. Do you like the spray can or the oil can better? |
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BTW....as far as a rust preventitive on the oustide of my rifles...Eezox is all I use. I don't consider it that great of a lube, but it's the VERY BEST protectant in my opinion. This is why: http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html I too like Eezox as a rust preventative. Do you like the spray can or the oil can better? I've only tried the oil can, but I just ordered the spray b/c I ran out. |
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I've seen those corrosion tests at the links before. The conclusion I took away was that although CLP isn't "the best", it comes in second while also being generally available anywhere, suitable for use as an all-in-one product, and military tested in a lot of environments. So, I use it for a rust preventative. I use Tetra Grease to lube bearing surfaces, but would not be concerned if I temporarily ran out of it and had to use CLP until I got some more Tetra.
As to the original topic, what I do to clean anyplace on a gun that you don't disassemble and is hard to reach is as follows. Gunsmith Teddy Jacobson (Actions by T) on his web site for many years recommended a product called LPS Micro X Contact Cleaner. It is designed for electrical use, but Jacobson tested a lot of products and came up with it as both effective and safe for cleaning even modern guns with synthetic parts. It won't hurt your finish or melt your "space age polymer". It sprays on liquid but evaporates in less than a minute. Obviously you want to be someplace with good ventalation and don't smoke 'em if you got 'em. Anyway, following Jacobson's advice (from an article on cleaning handguns, but no reason not to use it on long guns), I spray it in there until it's running clean. I do this over an open trash bag with a layer of paper towels on the bottom, so when it is dripping out not yet running clean it isn't going to evaporate and leave a mess on anything. This stuff will totally degrease, so you'll need to lube and protect afterwards. I spray down all the parts I took off field stripping the same way. I find that sometimes on parts directly exposed to powder propellant gases where the carbon is kind of baked on (typically not those hard to reach places like the trigger group in handguns & AR's), the Micro X needs a little help from a nylon-bristled toothbrush applied while the stuff is still wet. It's really fast to do in any event. You still have to do the bore the old fashioned way, though. Now Jacobson is recommending Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber Synthetic Safe Cleaner over Micro X, but you'd use it the same way. His beef with Micro X was not anything about the stuff itself, but leaking valves in the cans and the manufacturer not addressing the issue when he contacted them. The Birchwood Casey product is apparently fairly new, but should be easier to get than Micro X (which had to be ordered from an industrial supply outlet). One point of potential confusion is that Birchwood Casey has an older product still on the market called "Gun Scrubber Solvent/Degreaser". That's not the same stuff as what Jacobson recommends. I looked at a can of it at Wally World and it says right on there that it might damage some plastics, so I wouldn't use it unless you're all wood & metal. The key words in the right product's label are "Synthetic Safe", and on Birchwood casey's website it has a grey cap & label vs black on the older non-recommened product. I haven't actually used it myself yet, because I'm still working through a case of Micro X, but Jacobson generally knows what he's talking about so I'll be getting some soon. To deal with relubing those hard to reach areas, I squirt CLP in and spray out the excess with canned air like you buy at computer outlets (Best Buy, whatever). The air spreads it around good and gets rid of what might otherwise drip out over time. |
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User of ezzox for both lube and rust prevent on a lot of my CC weapons. The stuff works. My supply is rather old metal camo cans That I purchased from a GS that was closing the doors 10 years ago for 20 bucks a case.
eta. G96 appears to work just like ezzox, but seams a much lighter viscosity. |
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it was Hoppes gun oil on my ruger 10/22 that sat for several years, before i discovered CLP Hoppes oil is garbage. #9 is a great solvent, but the oil is terrible for the very reason you mentioned. It also burns off quickly and runs too easily. Breakfree CLP and LP are better choices. Slip2000 products and LaRue machine gunner's lube are also good. I'm currently messing around with a 50/50 split of ATF and synthetic 10W-30. |
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Here is my method. It works so far:
1. Squirt a liberal amount of something like breakfree into the housing, let it sit for a minute or so. 2. Nail it with compressed air to remove excess cleaning product 3. clean out any debris with a q tip. Make sure you dont lose the cotton off it into the reciver (if you do, get it out) 4. Always insure the springs are lightly lubed. Once a year or so I remove the trigger group, inspect the parts, and really scrub out the inside. At this time I will usually replace the trigger, disconnector, and hammer springs (they are not expensive) along with the bolt rings. I also gauge everything else on the weapon as per the army TM. I fire up to 8,000 rounds annually through the AR that I am referring to ( I am on my 3rd barrel) |
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the fact that all manufacturers, armorers, gunsmiths, and well informed enthusiasts agree with me
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i never clean my lower, only my upper. i do check the buffer tube though edit: obviously a light film of oil should be on all bearing surfaces like the hammer, sear, etc but my lower just never seems to get real dirty. then again i've only shot about 400 rounds through it since i bought it 3 or so yrs ago b/c the range is an hr away and ammo is expensive a sure way to screw up your ar15 is by overlubing it. i'd say less lube is MUCH better than more lube, especially on the bolt carrier This could not be further from the truth. What gives you that idea? edit: i remove the bcg, buffer, and spring and coat inside of the whole upper receiver with clp let is soak a minute and scrub with a brush then wipe clean with a rag and some cutips being sure not to leave lint or dust from the rag/cutips. i do the same to the bcg and i give a light coat of clp to the moving parts on the bcg. i wipe out my buffer tube with a rag and a dowell and give the buffer spring a LIGHT coat of clp. i inspect the lower and see that it's good to go with no buildup of carbon and has a light coat of clp on the bearing surfaces in the trigger group. then i reassemble That could not be further from the truth. You should maybe read some AAR from military sources, the tacked thread at the top of general AR discussion http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=360169 where Mr. Pat Rogers talks about classes he gives and the number one cause of malfunctions in the AR platform ( hint that would be lack of lube ) to educate yourself. Good luck. |
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BTW....as far as a rust preventitive on the oustide of my rifles...Eezox is all I use. I don't consider it that great of a lube, but it's the VERY BEST protectant in my opinion. This is why: http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html Here's another article that's similar from Brownell's. The Gun Zone article is kinda useless without pics. They also used products not designed for rust prevention (Kroil, Militec-1) and their results for Sheath run counter to what Brownells found. |
| You clean your lower reciever? Except for the buffer, buffer spring and tube, I don't really do much to the lower except a little oil in the takedown pins and face of the hammer. The buffer assembly gets cleaned and relubed every few cleanings. I might wipe out the mag well once in a while. |
| When it looks like it needs cleaning (when I feel guilty enough to clean the lower receiver) I hold it butt stock up in one hand and spray the lower out with carb. cleaner. After it dries I liberally apply lub to the moving parts, springs and inside of the receiver. |
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You clean your lower reciever? Except for the buffer, buffer spring and tube, I don't really do much to the lower except a little oil in the takedown pins and face of the hammer. The buffer assembly gets cleaned and relubed every few cleanings. I might wipe out the mag well once in a while. You clean the buffer assembly? I musta forgot. Well, I pulled it and did a wipedown with Kroil.......think that A1 riflestock went on for good well over 20k ago. There was some dust in there, otherwise nothing. No black carbon crud, no birds nests. Guess I can forget about it. Sam |
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