AR Sponsor
Posted: 4/21/2009 6:11:09 PM EDT
|
Does anyone have a video of themselves, a friend, or just some random guy cleaning an M16/M4 in a deployed situation? I'm just curious how they go about it. Most people here seem to enjoy getting some long, one-piece rod, and a special rifle-grasping-tool-box-vice thing... It just seems like it is a lot of stuff, a lot of bulky stuff, for what I assume soldiers do with much simpler, small, and lighter equipment... |
|
I don't have a video, but I'll bet there are many on youtube.
My unit issues military cleaning kits, but I just made my own, with an Otis "rod", a slotted tip, a couple of brushes, a toothbrush, cotton swabs (the long wooden-handled kind), an old t-shirt and a bottle of clp. Spread an old towel on some sort of makeshift table, or a chair or cot. There are other tools that make certain tasks much easier, but one can get by with the stuff I listed. |
|
Quoted:
Does anyone have a video of themselves, a friend, or just some random guy cleaning an M16/M4 in a deployed situation? I'm just curious how they go about it. Most people here seem to enjoy getting some long, one-piece rod, and a special rifle-grasping-tool-box-vice thing... It just seems like it is a lot of stuff, a lot of bulky stuff, for what I assume soldiers do with much simpler, small, and lighter equipment... Read the -10 Operators Manual. It covers how to clean and with what to clean. All I ever used, in garrison or in the field, was a GI cleaning kit. |
|
QUIB, how great is the risk of damage with the steel cleaning rod? I've got a brass screw-together.... and it wobbles and buckles at every joint... it probably isn't great for the brass rod to do that, but I could imagine a steel rod, even if it is relatively soft steel, damaging the bore rather easily. I have heard that you aren't supposed to let the rod touch the bore... but that seems like it would be nearly impossible. |
|
If you have a rifle buttstock, it should have a chamber under the trap door that fits the military cleaning kit. There are 2 military cleaning kits I am aware of; actually maybe more (Otis), one comes in a triangular shaped pouch designed to fit the cavity in the rifle buttstock, the other is a rectangular pouch with cartridge belt attachments. The triangular shaped pouch is green and is like rubber impregnated poncho material, while the rectangular pouch is green, khaki or black, just plain nylon with velco and snaps to close it up. I "think" either version has the same equipment, but I'm NOT positive. I'm guessing the rectangular pouch version is for weapons with collapsible stocks that do NOT have a cavity to store the kit, and thus its outfitted to attach to your cartridge belt / pack / etc.
I "think" but I am NOT sure, the military or at least the Marines have started to issue the OTIS cleaning kit. It may be OTIS is marketing a kit to the military and civilian and people have mistaken that to mean it is GI now. The Otis kit is a round zip up pouch with MOLLE gear attachments, khaki in color, but also available in black. The OTIS system is different equipment than the earlier GI kits, and the cleaning methods are different, BUT, the general principals are the same, usually the kit comes with a DVD to demonstrate it for you, as well, you can watch the videos on OTIS's website. The OTIS kits comes with a cable that you pull the brush through the bore. The same principal as the advice of pulling the rod through the bore. Pulling with resistance only straightens the rod more and makes it less likely to scrape the bore, while pushing the rod with resistance can make the rod BOW and scrape the side of the bore. Like Quib pretty much said, cleaning in the field is the same as in garrison/at home, the only difference is common sense precautions for the environment and circumstances. i.e. don't set you BCG down in the dirt, be extra careful where you set down the small parts because its easier to loose them in the field, learn to conserve your cleaning supplies because you'll have less in the field, etc. |
|
Quoted:
If you have a rifle buttstock, it should have a chamber under the trap door that fits the military cleaning kit. There are 2 military cleaning kits I am aware of; actually maybe more (Otis), one comes in a triangular shaped pouch designed to fit the cavity in the rifle buttstock, the other is a rectangular pouch with cartridge belt attachments. The triangular shaped pouch is green and is like rubber impregnated poncho material, while the rectangular pouch is green, khaki or black, just plain nylon with velco and snaps to close it up. I "think" either version has the same equipment, but I'm NOT positive. I'm guessing the rectangular pouch version is for weapons with collapsible stocks that do NOT have a cavity to store the kit, and thus its outfitted to attach to your cartridge belt / pack / etc. I "think" but I am NOT sure, the military or at least the Marines have started to issue the OTIS cleaning kit. It may be OTIS is marketing a kit to the military and civilian and people have mistaken that to mean it is GI now. The Otis kit is a round zip up pouch with MOLLE gear attachments, khaki in color, but also available in black. The OTIS system is different equipment than the earlier GI kits, and the cleaning methods are different, BUT, the general principals are the same, usually the kit comes with a DVD to demonstrate it for you, as well, you can watch the videos on OTIS's website. The OTIS kits comes with a cable that you pull the brush through the bore. The same principal as the advice of pulling the rod through the bore. Pulling with resistance only straightens the rod more and makes it less likely to scrape the bore, while pushing the rod with resistance can make the rod BOW and scrape the side of the bore. Like Quib pretty much said, cleaning in the field is the same as in garrison/at home, the only difference is common sense precautions for the environment and circumstances. i.e. don't set you BCG down in the dirt, be extra careful where you set down the small parts because its easier to loose them in the field, learn to conserve your cleaning supplies because you'll have less in the field, etc. One of the units I deployed with issued everyone the Otis version of the buttstock kit. Most of those mysteriously vanished, and now that unit relies on the older GI kits, which in most cases must be paired or tripled up, in order to have a complete kit. The new supply SSG is getting new ones, and those must be signed for and inventoried at turn-in. My current unit just issued, by hand receipt, Otis 7.62/5.56 Sniper kits. We are a transportation company, and are trading our M16A2's for hand-me-down M4's. In my opinion, it is way too expensive a kit for our purposes, as it has a multitude of attachments that either aren't applicable to our weapons, or that most Soldiers will never use. |
|
Thanks, I forgot that OTIS makes a buttstock kit as well. Yea, and I didn't mention the price. I got my OTIS 5.56 kit off ebay for half the going price, even then it was almost twice what you can get the older USGI kit. Buy it retail and its easily 3 times as much as USGI kit if you shop around. The OTIS kits don't even have a chamber brush. Granted, they show how to clean the chamber with the tools supplied and arguably that's just as good, BUT, I'm sure some people are of the opinion the Chamber brush is an important cleaning tool, simply ragging out the chamber by spinning a larger patch isn't good enough.
As well, I don't think they are GI, but there is a GRIP kit from OTIS as well. Might be nice for AR's with collapsible stocks, but its NOT as complete as the other OTIS kits. 
If you looking for a cleaning kit, keep in mind, arguably the old USGI kit has most of what you need at far less of a cost than the OTIS kit that includes stuff you probably never will use. Even the older USGI kits do NOT come with the bore patches, rags, the CLP bottle is empty, etc, so there is still some things to purchase, as well, most people find a few extras they pick up useful, like mops, or a scraper tool, etc. |
|
In case any readers are unaware, the GI kit uses different threading than Otis. Otis is compatible with most commercial cleaning gear, as far as I know.
Quoted:
I'm sure some people are of the opinion the Chamber brush is an important cleaning tool, simply ragging out the chamber by spinning a larger patch isn't good enough. That brush always seems to be the first item to come up missing, so I have gotten used to cleaning the chamber without it (don't tell QUIB). |
|
I have been cleaning with an odd-ball mix of the aftermarket brass rod, a piece of weedwhacker string, a semi-broken jag, a .30 caliber brush, and a mop. Which is why I am looking for an upgrade to the proper tools.  Looking hard at the Brownell's options... looks to be a good kit at a good value. |
|
You seriously are in need of a good kit.
Look at what Brownells has to offer, or local sporting goods stores. Piece together a good kit for the bench, buy the GI kit for the range/field. Doesn't need to be anything fancy, just the basics. My "pieced together kit"...... 
My GI kit from Brownells........which lives in my A4 clones stock. 
|
|
Quoted:
One of the units I deployed with issued everyone the Otis version of the buttstock kit. Most of those mysteriously vanished, and now that unit relies on the older GI kits, which in most cases must be paired or tripled up, in order to have a complete kit. This was pretty much the case with any unit I was assigned to. Weapons cleaning was a royal goat f&#k with everyone scrambling around outside the hallway to the Armsroom, digging through .50 cal ammo cans full of bent, broken, rusted cleaning rod sections and brushes, in an attempt to piece together enough gear to sufficiently clean our weapons. In my first unit in Germany, I was good buddies with the Battalion Armorer. He squared me away with my own brand-new cleaning kit, which I still have to this day. From that point onwards when it was time to clean my weapon, I would draw it out, then head up into the barracks. I had my own gear, could share with my guys, and we could relax in the comfort of a room, listen to some jams, and clean our weapons away from the madness. |
|
Quoted:
I have been cleaning with an odd-ball mix of the aftermarket brass rod, a piece of weedwhacker string, a semi-broken jag, a .30 caliber brush, and a mop. Which is why I am looking for an upgrade to the proper tools.
Looking hard at the Brownell's options... looks to be a good kit at a good value. You wouldn't be a early Viet-Nam war reenactor, would you? You know, before the cleaning supplies were developed and issued... BSW |
|
I use some more unique stuff. I haven't deployed with it yet, but I used it at IBOLC and Ranger School. I'm kinda a gear snob and so that does affect what I carry in regards to just about all of my gear. That said, here goes...
I absolutely love my Emdom KitMat, its $40 and designed by a US company even though there stuff is made in Hong Kong. It is the same dimensions as the USGI kit, but with the extra pockets, organization, and mat. It was designed by the Military Moron and Emdom, he does a lot with them. 
For the barrel, in the field I just carry a bore snake. It's way light, easy to use, and faster than a patch for sure. You can put some drops of solvent on the near end of it and use it to break stuff up in there. I definitely recommend the copper solvent. It was taught to me by some retired Sergeants Major from Delta Force who are now working for Asymmetrical Warfare Group teaching Soldiers how to shoot. It cleans out the rifling and can drastically improve your rifle's accuracy. Some copper fouling however, is good. It warms the barrel up. Next, nylon and brass toothbrushes, pipe cleaners, q-tips, a STRAIGHT dental pick (the curved ones make me want to kill myself), a good rag, some swabs (both large and small). The other unique thing is probably one of those green scouring sponges. Works great on the bolt carrier and such without being as harsh as the wire brushes. I like it a lot. Other than that, I think pretty much just some oil. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
One of the units I deployed with issued everyone the Otis version of the buttstock kit. Most of those mysteriously vanished, and now that unit relies on the older GI kits, which in most cases must be paired or tripled up, in order to have a complete kit. This was pretty much the case with any unit I was assigned to. Weapons cleaning was a royal goat f&#k with everyone scrambling around outside the hallway to the Armsroom, digging through .50 cal ammo cans full of bent, broken, rusted cleaning rod sections and brushes, in an attempt to piece together enough gear to sufficiently clean our weapons. In my first unit in Germany, I was good buddies with the Battalion Armorer. He squared me away with my own brand-new cleaning kit, which I still have to this day. From that point onwards when it was time to clean my weapon, I would draw it out, then head up into the barracks. I had my own gear, could share with my guys, and we could relax in the comfort of a room, listen to some jams, and clean our weapons away from the madness. I predict the same will happen with the new Otis kits my unit issued, even though they are hand-receipted. The Army, or at least the OHARNG, requires hand receipts for almost everything now, and yet somehow, it doesn't seem like anybody ever has to pay for anything. I always take my own cleaning kit. I developed a habit, in the navy, of providing certain things for myself, rather than try to make do with the issued scraps. |
|
Quoted:
I absolutely love my Emdom KitMat, its $40 and designed by a US company even though there stuff is made in Hong Kong. It is the same dimensions as the USGI kit, but with the extra pockets, organization, and mat. It was designed by the Military Moron and Emdom, he does a lot with them. http://www.emdomusa.com/images/KitMat/KitMat-4.JPG That looks interesting. Does it come as a kit, or just the mat? EDIT Okay, I'm at their website. WTH color is "sewer green"?! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I absolutely love my Emdom KitMat, its $40 and designed by a US company even though there stuff is made in Hong Kong. It is the same dimensions as the USGI kit, but with the extra pockets, organization, and mat. It was designed by the Military Moron and Emdom, he does a lot with them. http://www.emdomusa.com/images/KitMat/KitMat-4.JPG That looks interesting. Does it come as a kit, or just the mat? Nah, no kit. Its just the mat. I forgot to mention the velcro tabs earlier. They come totally off of that little square there and are designed to velcro down the small parts. I dig it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I absolutely love my Emdom KitMat, its $40 and designed by a US company even though there stuff is made in Hong Kong. It is the same dimensions as the USGI kit, but with the extra pockets, organization, and mat. It was designed by the Military Moron and Emdom, he does a lot with them. http://www.emdomusa.com/images/KitMat/KitMat-4.JPG That looks interesting. Does it come as a kit, or just the mat? EDIT Okay, I'm at their website. WTH color is "sewer green"?! Sewer green is a little darker than than most OD. I've got the coyote kitmat. Great for field cleaning. I started shooting corrosive ammo (AK47) and I now clean at the range, preferably while the gun is still warm. Plenty of space to hold tools and supplies* neatly organized. BSW *Tools and supplies not included. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: I have been cleaning with an odd-ball mix of the aftermarket brass rod, a piece of weedwhacker string, a semi-broken jag, a .30 caliber brush, and a mop. Which is why I am looking for an upgrade to the proper tools. Looking hard at the Brownell's options... looks to be a good kit at a good value. You wouldn't be a early Viet-Nam war reenactor, would you? You know, before the cleaning supplies were developed and issued... BSW Very comical... Maybe I'll just have to forget the kit, and become a reenactor.  It really isn't as bad as it sounds.... the weedwhacker string is really a very effective cleaning rod/string thing. I sharpened one end, and burned the other until it bubbled into a sort of jag. Slip a patch on the sharp end, and it works similarly to an Otis kit. I clean the chamber by sticking a patch in one of the loop attachments for the commercial rod, and that works half-decent. I've got the CLP and Hoppes #9. Oh, and like another user posted, the green "Scotch bright" pads work great on the bell of the bolt... not a bit of carbon on that thing, and a lost faster than going after it with a pocket knife, cleaning rod threads, etc. I clean most things in my arsenal effectively.... but the AR has some rather unique contours... which is why I think a specific kit is going to be a great improvement. |
|
I'm honestly quite excited to see people agreeing with the things I've suggested using. Ha.
The owner of the company is a member on another board catering to the SF community which is how I heard about it. http://www.catm4.com/index.html I still don't have mine yet though so I can't personally recommend it. Best I can tell all the reviews on their site are direct quotes from other members who have used it and then posted feedback on the SF board. Also, glad to see you are checking out Emdom, they make a number of products that I don't see anyone else bringing to market. Their ACU mods are pretty amazing as well. Very, very thorough. |
|
Quoted:
You seriously are in need of a good kit. Look at what Brownells has to offer, or local sporting goods stores. Piece together a good kit for the bench, buy the GI kit for the range/field. Doesn't need to be anything fancy, just the basics. My "pieced together kit"...... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/CleaningGear1.jpg My GI kit from Brownells........which lives in my A4 clones stock. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/GIKit.jpg QUIB - what happened to the pics man!!!!! 
...... |
|
Quoted:
QUIB - what happened to the pics man!!!!!
...... With the number of pics and illustrations I post here on ARFCOM, it's impossible for me to host them all the time. Photobucket simply doesn't allow that much bandwidth. And, it doesn't help either when folks here hotlink directly to my Photobucket account. (If you are reading this, then you know who you are.) So, when I see the interest in a thread start to die down, I delete the pictures. |
|
Quoted:
The OTIS kits don't even have a chamber brush. Not true –– as a blanket statement, anyway. I understand that the hand-grip kit doesn't come with a chamber brush –– being a small space and all –– but AFAIK all the other kits come with chamber brushes, including the butt-stock kit (which is what I primarily use to clean my AR's). 
|
AR Sponsor