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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Tail Pitting (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/12/2008 7:52:05 AM EDT
| I have a Colt 6920. I've put maybe 1500 rounds through it over the past couple years. I've recently cleaned the bolt real good (soaked in odorless mineral spirits, with clp) and brushed off the carbon buildup with a brass brush. I've noticed a little pitting on the bolt tail. I've only ever shot good new ammo, non corrosive. This is my Go To Rifle, my Baby, for home AND WORK. Is bolt tail pitting common?, or Something i need to worry about? Since this is not just a play rifle, but one I use at work (why i got a Colt), should i get a new bolt as a preventative measure, or let it be? I need for this rifle to be 100% reliable (again, why i got a Colt). Any input is really appreciated, Thanks. |
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This is why cleaning off of the carbon deposits is so important. I don’t see how anyone can say that corrosion on a weapon is “nothing to worry about”. Even if you don’t shoot corrosive ammo, carbon deposits absorb and can trap moisture. The pitting you see might at this point be minimal. You might have caught it just at the right moment. But how far would that corrosion pitting have gone, if left unchecked. 
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This is a clue you aren't keeping the inside of the bolt carrier wet enough. When I finish shooting, I always squrit some lube back into the bolt carrier within a day or two. If the inside of the BC is sloppin' wet with lube, nothing will corrode. Carbon or no carbon. |
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I do not and probably never will, understand why those who elect to do as little as possible when it comes to preventative maintenance, seem to think that their lack of preventative maintenance is some how a bragging point. If your lack of preventative maintenance hasn’t bit you in the ass yet, don’t hold your breath too long. Cause the clock is ticking. And if you truly depend upon your weapon to save your life or the life of your loved ones or others, as in the case of a law enforcement officer, why would you elect to NOT do everything possible to ensure that weapon is in top condition and will function in that God forbidden moment when you need it. |
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I have a rifle I use for training that I have well over twelve thousand rounds on. I clean it throughly before classes. Other than that, I occasionally remove the bolt group and wipe the outside off good along with the inside of the upper and a couple of passes with a a boresnake thru the bore. If I am shooting wolf or silver bear, I might break the bolt down to get the primer sealant out of the firing pin channel and clean it off of and out from under the extractor. Otherrwise, it gets detail cleaned every couple of thousand rounds or before a class but no more than that. At that time only I will clean the tail of the bolt. I do keep it wet with lube. I add lube to the vent holes in the BC every couple hundred rounds. No corrosion and never been 'bit in the ass' by poor maintainence either. The rifle just plain runs. With Wolf or the good stuff, it just plain runs. |
You think Pat Rogers Gives bad advice to people he trains??  And knows they are going into harms way EVERYDAY??You do know he trains Cops,marines,army,spec ops,ect.People in his classes GO BACK to the sandbox and go back to the beat after training with him.
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What exactly does that tell us? I’ll tell you what it tells me. And this is no disrespect to Pat Rogers. It tells me we have two different approaches to maintenance and cleaning. That is all. Look at it this way, and be honest in your answer. Ensuring the bolt tail is clean and free of carbon deposits has what negative result? Now, ask your self, what chance am I taking by letting the carbon accumulate? What are those negative results? Do you really want to find out at the wrong moment? |
All i can say in about 30,000 rounds and 9 ar-15's and NOT touching the back of my bolt i have not found problems related to NOT cleaning the back of the bolt.. |
Fail, no. But how long do you let this unchecked condition go until it does fail? Until that moment when the weapon is needed the most? It’s the same battle in aviation maintenance when it comes to aircraft preventative maintenance. Folks will say: “But that’s the way we ALWAYS did things, and never had problems.” And when do they say this? After the fact, when it’s too late. Taking that extra step to ensure my weapon is as humanly possible to 100% mission capable is where I stand. If you decide other wise, then that’s the risk you take. If I took your approach or attitude towards weapons preventative maintenance when it came to aviation maintenance, would you feel safe flying in the aircraft I maintain? |
With all do respect Quib..how many people do YOU train a year?How many carbine classes do you take a year?How many rounds do you put into traning a year?How many DIFFERNT rifles do you see a year? |
Yep, you got me. I guess I’m talking out the side of my ass. You guys enjoy the discussion. My position on the subject is documented. |
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It isn't an aircraft and it is not a critical area provided you keep it lubed. Self-limiting means just that. Cosiderable experience says it just doesn't matter. It ceatainly does not matter for many thousand of rounds. I saw people use abrasives to clean their issue M-16's to parade ground inspection level. I cringe at the thought of that. These are critical areas that depend on close clearance to provide a gas seal. Anything that can reduce the journal diameter of the Bolt or damage a gas ring is bad, even if it is just a green pad. |
I NEVER said you are talking "out the side of your ass" and i respect YOUR VIEWS.All i am asking is tell us what YOU do,No need to be this way. |
And with that said, you don’t think that there is the possibility of unchecked corrosion pitting making it’s way into the gas ring area? Again, why take that chance when it takes just minutes to go that extra step? |
Mine is swimming is a sea of lubricant. Please tell me how its going to corrode. I have no doubt people have gotten corrosion under the carbon. I also bet they ran the things drier than a popcorn fart too.
I minimize it by using sufficient lube. |
Sorry, you can NEVER"eliminate"anything man made.Still waiting for an answer to my question. |
I simply do not think I gain anything by doing it more frequently. As I said, I check it at a minimum of every two thousand rounds. It gets cleaned at least once per year, usually much more and it never has shown one pit. If I were puting it away for long term storage I would clean it but this is a training rifle and I use it at least twice a month. I do not have time to detail clean it every outing. I know what is critical and what isn't and apply my efforts accordingly. I have faith in my knowledge and judgement in this matter. |
So, you are going to tell me, that by properly cleaning and removing the carbon from the tail of my bolt, that I still stand the chance of carbon contributing to corrosion? Impossible. By eliminating the carbon, I have eliminated the chances of carbon contributing to corrosion. |
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I don't believe the carbon causes corrosion. I do not accept this hypothesis. Correltion does not equal causation. I think lube getting totally baked off in a high temp environment cause the corrosion, the carbon is merely a by-product. If mositure can penetrate the carbon, so can that sea of lube I apply. |
No, i was saying that by cleaning the back of the bolt would not cause you to"eliminate" some function problems. |
Carbon is a contributing factor in the formation of corrosion. It absorbs and retains moisture. Eliminate the carbon and you remove that contributing factor towards corrosion. Lube getting “baked” off is simply another contributing factor. It’s just like the “fire triangle“. Fuel-oxygen-ignition. Eliminate one of those elements.....no fire. Bolt-carbon-moisture. Eliminate one of those elements......no corrosion. |
Well I agree that the accumulation of carbon over the course of firing will most likely never cause a malfunction. I agree with the statement that the carbon is “self limiting”. But that is not the argument here. The argument here is: If left unattended, does carbon build up lead to corrosion. And, should it be cleaned off. Cause corrosion, or lead to corrosion? Yes it does, we have the proof. |
Calling you out .. no.I am asking you(for my info) what you do in yearly in terms of rounds a year?classes? do you see many differnt brands of ar's.No need to get defensive. |
Sure your calling me out. In an attempt to prove me wrong, your wanting to pit my experience level against that of Pat Rogers. |
I know what the op is asking. I know that it does cause corrosion as i never said it DID NOT.I said it is nothing to WORRY about.  .I was makeing a comment on what YOU were saying.
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Well if YOU want to take it that way thats up to you. 
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For you personally, it might not be a point to worry. For the OP, well I guess he needs to know the truth, and base his decision off of that. And that truth is: Neglect the carbon on the back of your bolt, and you run against the risk of corrosion pitting. If that is a risk your willing to take, then so be it, don't clean it. As long as the carbon is there, the risk is there as well. |
Yes carbon will cause corrosion i dont think anyone is argueing that point.But what I am saying is( carbon/pitting on the back of the bolt) WONT affect "FUNCTION" |
Actually, I am arguing that carbon doesn not cause corrosion. No lube on dry metal causes corrosion. |
And what I’m saying is: Never say never. Left unchecked you can not say with 100% certainty that corrosion will never form there to the point of causing a malfunction. |
Corrcted my post. 
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As I stated, carbon build up is a contributing factor in the cause of corrosion. Lack of lube, like I stated, is another. If you have two bolts, one lubed, the other not lubed. In the absence of moisture will both those bolts corrode? No. |
I see what you are trying to do.Dont answer the question.You answerd my question anyways(by not answering it)I rest my case, good day sir. |
So be it. If you think you have your answer then we have nothing more to discuss when it comes to my experience level or training. ETA: When it comes to my experience level or training, I’ll leave this thread on this note. If I was to suddenly say, yea, you know in response to questioning my training, I trained with the 160th SOAR. Would that somehow magically change your perception of me? Would that change your whole stance on the argument? Would you suddenly say, “Well Quib in light of that fact, you know what, I suddenly think your right.” “Rescind everything I posted up to this point.” I don't think so.
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whats with the GOD complex? pat is not god.he burns out his guns so he don't do the maintenance we should do.if he did with the volume of rounds they go thru they would be cleaning constantly. so what did they do? they found justification on why to NOT properly do checks and preventative maintenance a PRUDENT person would do with a lifesaving TOOL. now get pissy that I associated pat with god. he is not. you keep your guns so so clean and I will keep mine as I see fit-clean and properly lubed. I rarely scrape carbon. it blows off. |
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I doubt it is corrosion but in fact hard carbon that the solvents won't remove. Try some Pro Shot Copper Solvent IV. That is a far better cleaning solvent for carbon than most other traditional solvents. It also rinses with water. It has a rather high pH which loosens carbon depostis much better than Shooters Choice or CLP. |
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I know my opinion means just what you paid for it, but I'm with you Quib! If me keeping my weapon clean gives me more confidence in my weapon, good for me. If you don't like keeping your weapon clean I just hope you aren't my back up. But if you are? Glad to see you! I'll take what I can get at that point! Just for the record, since it seems to mean something in this thread - for part of my job I am a trainer with my department (a large department) and I'm also a trainee several times a year - more when my budget allows it.
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Just took some pictures of what a bolt looks like when you don't do regular maintenance on it. Does it still work? Yes. Do I use it? No, it's in my spare parts bin. EDIT: Just so you folks know, I'm not the one that let this bolt get this way, it was from a 3rd hand AR that I picked up years ago. Imagine my horror when I cleaned it up!    This bolt is clean. All the black marks on the tail are pits, none of them are carbon. Ask yourself, is this what you really want to carry in a weapon you stake your life on when 30 seconds during cleaning would prevent it? |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Tail Pitting (Page 1 of 2)
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