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Posted: 2/5/2005 6:45:07 AM EDT
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I know this has been beat on and discussed many times, but there is something inside of my head telling me the bolt needs more than a wipe down with CLP for lubrication. I am a Mechanical Engineer working with rotating machinery as a profession and with the forces acting on the bolt from the cycling process, it seems the CLP is just not enough protection. Everytime I clean my AR's, I want to reach for the Wilson's Ultama-Lube grease I use on my close tolerance RRA 1911's. But I have been told "no" by some pretty savy AR owners and shooters. Does any one out there use grease? Do you feel comfortable with just CLP? And if you use a grease, what brand do you use? Thanks, 77Bronc |
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Military policy atleast as far as the USMC is concerned is CLP, and only CLP. That being said it is ingrained in me so much that I have never tried anything else on my AR15, so I cant speak from experience about any other product. I have never had any problems that I can determine to be a direct result of using CLP exclusively. There is however another product being used in the Sandbox that many of the boots on the ground speak highly of in that environment. I think its called Militec. Aparently its an execellent lubricant and does not attract sand into the action as Clp does, however it is not worth a damn as a cleaner or a rust preventative. If you are in a dry desert environment it may be something to try. |
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BreakFree CLP does not contain any AW additives or EP agents as far as I could tell. It's a decent cleaner, decent preservative, and a decent lubricant but it's too thin IMHO, which doesn't mean much. It does meet MIL 63460D and probably 63460E when the spec comes out. I did some research and found Chevron Delo 400 or Mobil Delvac 1300 to contain a lot of ZDDP (AW agent) and molybdenum dilsulfide, significantly more than standard ATF or engine oils. For example, Mercon ATF contains almost hardly any zinc or moly. Engine oil was OK'd by Armalite and the military for use as a lubricant in case you couldn't afford "gun oil". well, after checking out what some of these "gun oils" contained, I realized they weren't anything more than $80/qt formulations of very thin engine oil w/ some zinc or proprietary additives. For $1.50/qt I decided to give Delvac 1300 Super a try in my AR15 and Vepr K. Previously, I have tried: FP-10 Militec-1 BF CLP Slip 2000 CLP RemOil Outer's Gun Oil ATF (mercon and mercon-V) for gun oiling and lubrication. Delvac 1300 and Delo 400 contain a lot more zinc, phosphorous, and moly than standard engine oils. Some argue that engine oils use different additives that work at higher temperatures. newsflash: engines do not get nearly as hot as semi-auto/auto gas rifles. Gas Engines are designed to operate from -50*F to 250*F. Anything more than 250*F at the heads and you risk cylinder head warpage and internal parts failure. IIRC, the barrel and gas tube of an AR-15 can reach 800*F-1000*F in sustained automatic fire. This heat can bleed off into the FCG and bolt/moving parts so the engine oil will probably do its job as a lubricant. The Delvac 1300 by far made the action of both rifles extremely smooth/slick. The hammer to bolt carrier contact on the Vepr feels non-existent (it drags a bit on the carrier by design). The only prob w/ Delvac 1300 would be its weight: 15W-40. It's thicker than most gun oils and would attract sand (especially the fine sand you find in Iraqi summers) like the dickens. I will try some Mobil 1 15W-50 I have lying around, and due to its synthetic nature, it may flow somewhat easier than the Delvac 1300. I recall reading that you do NOT want a thick lube in the sandbox anyhow - just lubricate a few spots. As far as I can tell, no one ever got sick from touching fresh engine oil so it's fairly "safe" to use. |
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I use breakfree for cleaning and a light wipe for corrosion protection. The heavy wear areas I add a little grease... on an AR B/BC I put some grease on the cam pin and inside it's track, the "ring" bearing surface on the bolt, and the four "rails" on the BC where it contacts the receiver. I usually put a thin coating of grease on the tail of the bolt also as it makes the carbon buildup much easier to remove, and also the back surfaces of the bolt lugs. I'm not in the sandbox though. ETA: The grease I use on nearly all of my firearms is Radio Shack "Lube Gel", which appears to be repackaged Super Lube, but available at almost any radio shack store. I am going to try some delvac 1300 though. I also use this aerosol aerospace lube made by phillips that I get at a local electronics supply house. It's awesome but it's solvent part does eat paint. |
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Thanks for the replies. I too feel the oils you buy are $80/quart "speciality" formulas. I am a firm believer in the Mobil 1 family and I have a lot of experience with Delvac. I have not tried these, but I may soon. Metroplex you made a good analysis. Thanks, Richard |
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I've used Militec 1 and is a much better lubricant than most of the other stuff. The Vepr action felt smooth when using Militec-1, more so than using Slip 2000 CLP, FP-10, or BF CLP. But it wasn't as glass smooth as it was w/ Delvac 1300. Militec-1 is not a good preservative and will allow metals to rust fairly quickly (it failed almost every corrosion test I threw at it) but it was a better lubricant than BF CLP. |
1) Did you work on the weapons system design? 2) Did you work on the cleaning system design? 3) Did you work on the qualification testing? 4) Have you spent hundreds of thousands of $$ testing your own lubrication methods, in a variety of climates and conditions? Sometimes I feel that KY Gel and Vasoline Intesive Care would be better than Mobil 1 in my Corvette. Luckily, I get over the feeling. 
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I agree with your assessment. But I don't use grease in AR's, which tends to attract carbon, dirt and grime, and work itself into a paste (because of the design of the AR's gas system). I use a medium weight synthetic oil, applied with a small paintbrush, for lubrication on bearing surfaces such as ones bolt, carrier, etc.... This serves a dual purpose. It doesn't allow dirt, carbon, etc..., to dry on surfaces (created a hard crud) and allows such substances to simply float to the surface where they are easily wiped away. Militec or Mobil 1 20 weight work fine for this purpose. Break Free CLP is ok for cleaning and an excellent rust preventer. A seperate cleaning solvent (such as shooters choice) works well for cleaning bores and bolt faces. |
| I shoot NRA Highpower and Long Range, and use MolySlide grease (60% moly) for lubrication in my spacegun. I've been running it that way for 5 years with no problems due to lubrication. I like Molyslide because it stays where you put it and is a very effective lubricant. The downside is that it isn't a corrosion inhibitor; that's not a problem with a range queen, but a definite no-no for a field gun or defensive weapon. For protection in storage during the off-season, I wipe it down with CLP; I could probably do that in addition to the Molyslide during the season, but don't see the need since I'm shooting evry few days and always clean after firing. |
i just picked up some of that delvac today. unfortunately i could only get it in a gallon size, but it was still cheaper than what i can get shooter's choice fp10 in 4oz. for (locally)! i'm going to try this stuff out, it sounds fairly interesting. do you ever use it on pistols? what about corrosion? many of my rifles have been sitting a lot lately, i've been doing much more pistol shooting, so corrosion protection is a concern. what do you use to clean with? rifles i stick with bf clp, but would like something more lubricating (hence buying this). would i have a problem cleaning with bf clp, and keeping the external surfaces wiped down with clp and possibly the bore, while still using mobil to lube the internals? will any bf that hits the mobil instantly gum everything up? i also picked up some valvoline "moly-fortified" synthetic grease today. been wanting to try some moly grease on my pistol rails and barrels. is there any problem using bf clp with this as well? i'd really like to cut down on wear with them. unfortunately my usp has already gotten a lot of wear on it, but my p232 is pretty new, hopefully i can head it off early. thanks :) |
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I use Wilson Combat's Ultima grease and oil on all my Colt ar's and Glocks. Never had a problem yet. Wilson's is the best in my book. Break free a good second. www.wilsoncombat.com/a_ultimalube.asp |
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The gallon is kind of overkill, but since I have a car that can use the 15W-40 anyhow, I didn't see it being a waste for me. I used it on my Vepr and AR (rifles) and it should work for your pistol as well. For corrosion, CLP has worked the BEST. FP-10, Militec-1, Slip 2k CLP, etc... have all disappointed me in corrosion testing but I figure unless you soak your rifle in salt water for hours... engine oil would even work fine. Be careful with the grease as it may attract dirt/sand. And btw, did you know that grease is NOT the thick stuff you see in the can? The part of the grease you want is the thin gooey stuff that leaks out of the bottom over the years. The thick stuff is the soap/medium that holds the grease... This is one reason why I will not use grease on my firearms. It makes no sense and it attracts a lot of dirt. I hope this helps you out, and as I said before, 15W-40, IMHO, seems kind of thick for use in firearms and I would probably have gone with a synthetic 20weight or 30weight if I had to do it again. The Delvac just happens to be rich in ZDDP and moly (significantly more than ATF or regular engine oil). BF CLP contains neither. |
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