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Posted: 2/17/2003 5:30:38 PM EDT
Hey there, gents! I recently acquired a tube of Mill-Comm TW25B, cleaner/degreaser, and a spray version of TW25B. There's been a lot of positive feedback on this stuff. Seems like it works wonders and from what I understand it's also doing a good job for US troops.

At any rate, this stuff isn't as nasty as some of the other solvents I've used (after prolonged contact with Shooter's Choice copper cleaner my fingers began to tingle!). Plus, this stuff doesn't leave you smelling like you took a shower in it.

Hey, if this stuff is less toxic and does a BETTER job, WHY NOT?

Do any of you fellas have any experience with this stuff? If so, I'd sure like to hear about it.

Link Posted: 2/18/2003 9:04:02 PM EDT
Ive used the TW-25B and the MC-2500 oil and have to say that its some extreme lubrication and protection.Its probably more lubrication/protection than a average person like me would ever need,and lasts for several range sessions.The TW-25B and MC-2500 does not want to rub off or burn off,it stays where you put it. The main thing to remember the first time you use it is to prep the surface as per the instructions. As well as not to use heavy coats.As MIL-Comm says a little goes a long way. My first time out I did not get all the clp removed and used too much of the TW-25B.Which made a mess once fired.Use thin coats. Use the MC-25 cleaner to remove any oil and fouling followed by a rub down with 90-99% isopropyl alcohol to remove any residue. Then apply the lube's in thin coats.The TW-25B and the MC-2500 oil are basically the same product so they will mix without any side effects. If you ever use a solvent like Hoppe's you should follow that with a patch of isopropyl alcohol to remove any residue and dry patch before applying the TW-25B or MC2500 oil. John at Mil-comm recommended using the TW-25B on the high stress areas like the bolt carrier,cam pin etc. and the MC-2500 on everything else including the bore. He said the MC-2500 oil is very close to the performance of the TW-25B and is easier to apply to areas like the bore,fire control/lower receiver and exterior surfaces etc. Using the MC-2500 also cuts back on how much TW-25B you use to help with the costs. John at Mil-comm did not recommend the TW-25B aerosole spray for the average person unless they had several weapons to treat or a large area to cover.He also said the aerosol causes moisture to form when sprayed due to the alcohol,so it creates a white milky film on the surface that should be worked to dry before assembly. He recommended to use the tube or syringe for average use and to use a acid brush to spread the TW-25B or the MC-2500. The MC-25 cleaner is similar to the M-Pro7 in my opinion.And it is not much on cleaning lead or copper.Which is not an issue since my AR's bores and chambers are chromed. One other thing to note about using the MC-25 cleaner and isopropyl alcohol that Mil-comm pointed out was. Try and make sure the weapons are warm when cleaning so the alcohol and MC-25 cleaner will flash/dry very fast and not condense water on the metal surfaces. So far I have been very pleased with the Mil-Comm products,but it does add to the cleaning time and is a little more work. I will say that these lubes do not catch and hold very much fouling,so a good wipe of the fouled surface with a rag usually is all the cleaning that is needed other than the bore.Even the carbon in the bolt carrier is easy to clean up.But I will probably go back to my FP-10 once I use up my supply of Mil-comm since Im a casual target shooter and dont need something so extreme.Maybe. Bottom line is I like the Mil-com products and would recommend trying them for what thats worth.Mil-com products is some serious lubrication. The man here to talk to about the TW-25B is "S-28".He has extensive experience with the Mil-comm products. See my old post below "hey S-28" for further information. Hope this helps. Raymond
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 6:51:48 AM EDT
Thanks for the informative response. BTW, do you happen to have the number to Mil-Comm, so I can request the application guide? Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 11:01:41 AM EDT
Urban,go to www.mil-comm.com and print the application instructions off of the web site.Thats the same instructions they sent me.That way you will not have to wait. Raymond
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 4:01:39 PM EDT
Urbanchaos, 1-888-9grease Ask for Gordon Furlong. The folks at Mil-Comm are GOLDEN! By spray version,do you mean the MC2500? They also have a "EP" that comes in a spray can. the alcohol and TW25B mix is contained in a mylar bag inside the can,and the area around the bag is pressurized to keep the propellant that otherwise would affect the lube chemicly seperated.This is on account of the needs of our airforce and Naval aviation folks. As Blankwaffe stated the stuff is absolute OVERKILL(Just about right then:) for most folks shooting needs but has many advantages except in time of application. Myself and another guy did a casual test just recently out of plain old curiosity. Usually if a rifle lubed with CLP,FP-10,Rem oil or whatever gets heated up with lots of ammo fired(Say 210-240 rounds in 2 min or so) rapidly,the exterior surfaces dry out and will be prone to rusting thanks to the preservative component getting burned off. We noticed that with the the Mil-comm,the rifle barrel is left with a heavy white "Frosted" appearence when done cooking one at the range. So......... I did a naughty.I left one rifle to be last cleaned,and the control(A colt Govt. Model carbine) that had been last lubed with CLP out in the snow and cold and then left in their damp case for 72 hours. From what was observed today when I opened both cases I would submit that the TW25B for some reason dosn't cook off as bad.The CLP'd Colt had light rust starting in a couple areas. If you do call Mil-Comm make sure you get their instructions for home made "EP" spray. it's so thin and penetrates so well and quickly that it is unreal.But like Blankwaffe stated,ya gotta use it on a warm rifle on account of the alcohol component being 91% and 9% water. My guys rifles come out of a 150 degree sonic tank and get rinsed in 170 degree water so they are PLENTY warm still when the EP is applied. At home on my own toys,I just warm things up with the hair dryer. For copper in the bore I chase our water based bore cleaner with a couple patches of Sweets,then I chase those with denatured alcohol to neutralize the sweets. Being a 'smith/armorer for going on 14 years now I am also kinda shy of some of the chemicals effects on health and have gone the way of "Non-Toxic" whenever I can. At work the safety Nazis are unfriggin real and have me limited anyway. M-pro 7 and the cleaner Mil-comm sells(Again as Blankwaffe stated) are pretty much comparable. Hyper surfacants/degreasers. The folks that market Mpro-7 also make a water based cleaner called "X-it" for use in sonic tanks.The stuff just flat KICKS BUTT! They sent me a sample and it worked as well as the Crest tank solvent I normally use but the grit and grim settles in the bottom of the tank instead of getting suspended. This lead to some thinking,so I used it mixed 50/50 with water for a spray solvent and it works BETTER than Mpro-7 in the bore for removing carbon. It ain't cheap though..... Strip the weapon of all other lubes and solvents before applying,and don't sweat skipping a day or two before cleaning after a stint at the range. Also.They wont tell you this but you can apply TW25B and then wipe the parts dry to the touch and it will still lube like nobodys business! This is what our guy's in the 'stan are doing that use it,to keep the dust and grit from sticking. I tried this on a personal M4 and then burned over 1,200 rounds with no hiccups or wear measurable on the high pressure areas like the cam pin and lugs. Good luck to ya! S-28
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 5:56:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2003 6:24:44 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]
S-28 you are the man. Casual shooter of 100+ rounds a minute.Man I get finger cramp just thinking about it.joke) Yeah the stuff is there once you get it on there I will say that.Im not sure but I dont think it will rub off.The TW-25B and MC-2500 oil does not just wash out of clothes either.It sticks where it hits.Trust me on that one.I like the smell though. And it seems you put it to the test in an EXTREME 72 hour punishment. Thats impressive. So how did I do on my Mil-comm information for a FNG? I know you said that you use a sonic tank to clean.But have you ever tried Rem action cleaner or brake cleaner to prep the surfaces like the lower and fire control parts that are not accessible for the MC-25 cleaner and alcohol? Raymond
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 6:43:20 PM EDT
Blankwaffe, Yep I have used Rem action cleaner to strip old oils and such.Used to use the dickens out of it in my retail shop,and still have a can or 5 for cleaning 870 trigger units and the like of the crud(Corn tassel and hardened 3-1 oil...yech!) the local hunters and farmers get in there. One thing I have noticed is that some Brake cleaners leave a slight residue,so I avoid them. Dadgum Green nazis got 1,1,1, Trichloroethane banned and it's been a PIA since. As to the effect of alcohol based solvents on TW25B,I can state that it will break down the synthetic grease/preservative component quite well.However the bonding agent that is provided for the Teflon component does a great job,and the solid lube will just sit there untill you scrub like a Crackhead with a case of poison ivy on the parts. You mention getting TW25 out of the clothes being a pain. Often I shower with a bottle of "Joy" dish detergent to get the stuff off of me. The EP I use goes airborne and gets all over hell,and don't even think about getting a decent shine on a pair of boots the stuff has ever settled on!!!! I put anything with optical glass away during the process as well.Lens cleaners suck at getting the stuff off. Part of the reason we went to TW25B is because our guys are wearing the M4 24-7 and are exposed to temperature extremes that are off the charts,and constant humidity or plain old WET. The TW25B dosn't rub off or lose effectiveness after 3 weeks of rubbing against a parka or uniform as a protectant goes,and the biggie... My guys(And gals!) often try to "Help" by grabbing a paper towel and wiping down a carbine that has been in the rain for several hours.With CLP,and the others(Including some that are favored here and good lubes otherwise) the water is more dense than the lube.The lube floats to the surface of film of water and gets wiped off with the water by the well meaning troopie,then they go back out in the uglyness and BINGO! S-28 has to fill out forms and other ugliness and the workload piles up. The stuff has cut my work load immeasurably. As for the 100 rounds per min.... Think multiple target CQB drills,on a non static range involving moving to cover and covering another person(S) movement to cover,where initial volume of fire is critical to establishing fire superiority and overall success. Toasted tubes happen. Can't have a belt fed weapon handy at all times...dangit!!! Still,for an all in one it is hard to beat breakfree(Old Formula!) or the FP-10. You will never hear me bad mouth the stuff. Good luck,and keep safe! S-28
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 9:08:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2003 9:12:17 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]
Thanks for the information S-28. I dont know how much you have played with the MC-2500 oil,but its almost as bad as the TW-25B about not coming off.Good thing,not a complaint.Im not sure what base oil they use but its strong stuff. What gets me is how the TW-25B and MC-2500 oil will make water run.I used the MC-2500 on the out side of my AR and water just will not stay on the rifle at all.A good shake pretty much removes most of the water. I have my AR,cetme and sks's pretty well treated with the Mil-comm products as well as a pretty good supply left.So the Mil-comm is staying at least until I use up what I have. After reading what you have to say I should stick with and will.Man I may never get off whats on there anyway. But yeah I found out why Mil-comm recommended using rubber gloves when applying the lubes. Man if you are spaying the stuff like you say I hope you are not breathing the stuff. Regards, Raymond
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 9:26:55 PM EDT
S-28: Yes, I meant MC2500 when I said "spray version." I don't know who I talked to at Mil-Comm, but he was very helpful. The application process seemed straight forward, but after reading Blankwaffe98's post it seemed kinda "involved." Basically this is what I'm going to do: 1. Use the MC-25(cleaner/degreaser) to get the CLP off of everything...exterior of weapon, bore, chamber, bolt, bolt carrier...anywhere that CLP is on. 2. Use a cloth/patch dabbed with isopropyl alocohol to get to the "bare metal." 3. Use TW25B grease on the bolt, bolt carrier and other "high stress areas." Use sparingly. 4. MC2500 can be use for larger surface areas, namely the exterior of the weapon...barrel, upper and lower receiver, etc. One question: Does MC2500 have water in it that will cause rust? Is that why the weapon needs to be hot so it can flash dry? Or is that pertaining to the MC25 cleaner and alcohol only?? I'm at a loss on this particular area. Thank you for all the great information, gents.
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 10:09:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2003 10:16:19 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]
Well sorry for the confusion. First off the MC-2500oil is just the oil liquid form of TW-25B as per Mil-comm.It does not contain water,its just an oil. The MC-25 cleaner/degreaser is water based as you said. So when using the MC-25 cleaner and alcohol to clean make sure the weapon is warm and not cold to the touch.At least room temperature. To clean John at Mil-comm recommended cleaning all the surfaces with the MC-25 cleaner/degreaser.Once all the surfaces are clean go over the surfaces with a patch of alcohol to remove any remaing residue. (As a note this is where I messed up the first time and did not get all the clp off and used too much TW-25B.) Once each of the parts have dried and all the clp has been removed apply the TW-25B and MC-2500 oil. I would clean and lubricate one part at a time since the parts have had all the oil removed.That way you wont have all the parts exposed at once with all the oil removed for long periods of time. I used the TW-25B on the outside of the bolt carrier,and the inside of the upper receiver using condition 1 in the application instructions,a very light coating. The rails on the bolt carrier,cam pin and its channel will need what they call condition 2 in the application instructions. I used the MC-2500 oil on the bolt,locking lugs and gas rings,barrel extension,bore,firing pin and all the small parts,fire control,lower receiver and external surfaces.Basically anything that I would use oil on whats not highly stressed friction areas.As per Mil-comm. Although the MC-2500 oil will kick the beans out of breakfree in lubrication. John at Mil-comm recommended using only a light coat of the oil on the inside of the bolt carrier,the firing pin and firing pin port and barrel extension.He did not recommend the TW-25B for these areas. Go to the MIL-comm web site and get a copy of the application instructions and read them a few times.That will help with how much and where to use the lubes. S-28 probably has better instructions but this is what I did. The first application is what takes so long since you are degreasing the rifle and preping the surfaces.After that its pretty much just wiping the fouling out and relubing for the most part. Mil-comm said that instead of using TW-25B after cleaning everytime that the MC-2500 could be used instead for follow up lubrication.To apply the TW-25B every second or third cleaning once there is a good TW-25B film barrier in place.They said this provides maximum lubrication without using so much TW-25B. Hope this helps rather than hurts. Raymond
Link Posted: 2/20/2003 6:30:55 PM EDT
Urbanchaos, Don't let the details get ya to thinking that the process is heavily involved. It is,but it ain't. Ya gotta remember you were talking to a chemical engineer at Mil-comm.By nature they are a bit anal about things,as we expect they should be and thank god they are! Here's the gig. For the bonding agent in TW25B to stick to the finish and exposed steel on your rifle there can't be any other "Stuff" in the way. So ya gotta strip off all the old oils and dirt that would prevent the TW25B from forming a protective barrier. Simple enough. They sell a water based cleaner(That you have) that breaks down conventional oils efficiently,however the water component is now against bare naked finish and steel once the old oil is stripped away and must be wiped or evaporated off before oxidization starts. Thats where the heat comes in. When using the "EP"(91% Isopropyl alcohol mixed with TW25B grease to form a suspension) there is the matter of the 9% water that must evaporate.As the alcohol is so much less dense than the lube or water,it floats on the film and evaporates quickly leaving the water and lube behind.This process accellerates the waters evaporation a bit but still leaves some. That's where the heat comes in. I cheat.New rifles are run through the tank for about 20 Min. Rinsed at 170 degrees,and then blown dry with compressed air.Then the EP is applied via a spray bottle.Then the rifle parts are placed on the bench to dry for about 5 Min. An extra swipe of lube is applied to high pressure areas,and it's back together. After that,my guys just wipe them down with a dry rag at the range and kick out the big chunks with a GI tooth brush and reapply the EP. Seeing as how the barrier is already there and unbroken by solvents,the water can do nothing but evaporate. Once you go through the complete degreasing and application process,you shouldn't have to repeat it again unless you use high pressure steam or really aggressive degreasers on the rifle. For the casual shooter it has HUGE advantages. Mung dosn't stick,and what used to be a chore scrubbing involves just a wipe down or a casual scrubbing with the tooth brush. Application using a Acid brush is a bit slow,but what is applied stays put and dosn't run back into the buffer tube in storage,and when heated up,dosn't go dry and need reapplication. It dosn't catch and hold near as much dust and cat fur. It smells like the old "Tropical Blend" suntan lotion and a little behind each ear wont scare off the date on Saturday night like CLP or Rem oil will.uhhh....OK so that might be TMI..:) It's really easier and faster once you get used to the non traditional method,and get past the fact that the parts don't look "Wet" while properly protected.That gave me fits untill I learned to trust the stuff. If you reload,try a shot of the 2500 on the ram of the press...it feels GREAT! Good luck to ya! S-28 P.S. If you ride a Motorcycle,TW25B EP applied to an O-ring chain works GREAT!I went 6,200 miles last year using the stuff with no galling,stretching and less than normal wear on the sprockets of my Ducati.
Link Posted: 2/20/2003 7:43:02 PM EDT
Once again, thanks for the informative posts, gents. I think I have more than enough to go on,now!!!
Link Posted: 2/21/2003 4:26:57 PM EDT
Urban. I talked with Greg at Mil-comm this afternoon about the cleaning and preping.He said that rather than use Remington action cleaner or brake cleaner to get the clp out of area's like the lower and fire control etc.,to just wipe as much of the clp off as you can reach and oil the areas with the MC-2500 oil. He did not recommend spraying the MC-25 cleaner or alcohol into the lower and on the fire control since it would be hard to get the areas dry fast enough and or wiped clean. He said thin films of clp should not cause any problems as they only contain trace amounts of solvent. They said that the MC-2500 and TW-25B will work through the Break free as you use it. But solvent residues from the cleaners and clp will cause problems and thats the main concern.If a solvent is used,the area must be wiped clean with MC-25 cleaner and isopropyl alcohol. He said that several manufacturers had called with the same question.He also said that the Break Free seems to continue to weep out of the metal no matter how much you clean,but the solvent content is trace amounts at best. He said the main thing is just get the MIL-Comm lubes on the weapons and let them work. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 1:14:07 AM EDT
Hmm...I was going to spray the Cleaner/Degreaser onto the fire control parts, spray some 96% Isopropyl Alcohol out of a spray bottle to flush stuff out, and then use a hair dryer to blow dry the parts...I guess maybe I shouldn't do that now... I'm just concerned with getting as much of the CLP as I possibly can...
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 4:57:30 PM EDT
My primary concern was getting all the clp off as well.But Mil-comm seems to be more concerned about solvents than the oils causing a problem.. They did not think spraying solvents or alcohol in the lower would be a good idea since there are area's that would be hard to wipe dry and clean which could cause rust. Small amounts of CLP is not a problem,just wipe off the areas as best as you can and go over them with the MC-2500 oil.Thats what I did with my lower and have not had any problems. I think the TW-25B is the main concern with the clean surfaces as it needs a clean surface to bond/stick like S-28 said. The oil is about like any other oil as it will penetrate and cover much easier.So just wipe the areas as dry as you can and oil with the MC-2500 oil. The TW-25B and MC-2500 oil is some good stuff though.I gave it a good test this weekend in my M15A2 and the stuff stays put and clean up is a breeze.Makes my guns feel smooth. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/3/2003 4:24:26 PM EDT
Okay, I think I'm way over-thinking this whole process, but that's just the way I am--complicated!! So, what did you do about the trigger group? Or what DO you do about it? Do you every clean it or take it apart? I don't think I have EVER done anything ot the trigger/fire control parts. It seems easy enought to take off the lower (according the the bushmaster video I have), but I don't think I want to do that myself. Soooo, do you just leave the fire control stuff alone or do you spray some MC2500 on it? What about the A2 sight? I know I'v dropped some CLP in there to lube it. All the fuzz and lint is in there to prove it, too! I was thiniking about squirting the cleaner/degreaser in there and then squirting some alcohol, but it seems that this is just doing TOO MUCH on my part. Should I just squirt the MC2500 on it, or what? Man, I almost wish I had an ultrasonic cleaning system! This way I would definitely know the rifle was stripped clean!
Link Posted: 3/3/2003 5:43:30 PM EDT
The areas like the rear sight,fire control and lower etc.I just wiped the areas clean with a dry rag and Q-tips as I normally would and oiled with the MC-2500 oil.No problems. Do not take the rifle apart any further than a normal field strip cleaning.Do not take the fire control out of the lower,its not necessary. Mil-comm does not recommend spraying the alcohol or the MC-25 cleaner into areas that cant be wiped clean and dry immediately.Like I said they just recommended wiping as much clp off as you can and oiling the areas with the MC-2500 oil as needed and let it go at that. After shooting and cleaning the rifle a few times using the Mil-comm products everything should be conditioned.CLP or not. Like they said,just get the lubricants on there and they will work themselves in. I was a little uptight just as you are until I used the mil-comm a few times.Its not as difficult as it seems as long as you do not use too much TW-25B on the carrier and upper like I did,that makes a mess.Just clean,lube as per the instructions and shoot a few times and your good to go. So lube the AR up as per the directions and go shoot a few times then clean and relube as needed.Your done with the first application and the surfaces have been preped.So no solvents or alcohol is needed after you get the first application on other than the MC-25 cleaner when needed for tough spots of fouling. You will be amazed at how fast and easy cleaning is after a couple applications of the Mil-comm products.The lubes prevent fouling from attaching to the weapon and the fouling just wipes off.If your ever caught out in the rain you will see what I mean about water running off.If the weapon is wet just give it a good shake and most of the water is gone. I love this stuff. So just relax and go shoot. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/3/2003 6:17:33 PM EDT
Thank your for your patience; I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my repetitive questions. With your last post, I have MORE THAN ENOUGH information to have at it. Once again, thanks!
Link Posted: 3/4/2003 4:10:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2003 4:46:00 AM EDT by Blankwaffe98]
Not a problem. Just remember the more you use the Mil-comm the better it gets. The Mil-comm products are not as easy to use as CLP's but the mil-comm lubricates and protects much longer and better. The MC-25 cleaner does nothing for metal fouling in the bore or heavy carbon build up in the chamber but does pretty good with normal powder/carbon fouling. With that being said I use a bore guide on my AR and clean the chamber/bore with Bore Techs Bore Solvent and use a chamber brush as needed.The bore guide will keep the solvents out of the barrel extension/lug recess and your upper. (My AR has a chrome chamber and bore so its not needed very often)Followed up with a patch of Mc-25 cleaner and isopropyl(dry patching in between each of course) to remove any solvent residues.Then a saturated patch of MC-2500 in the chamber and bore followed by a dry patch for protection. Just remember that whatever the solvent gets on you need to remove the solvent residue before application of TW-25B or MC-2500 oil or the products will not bond properly. And by the way get your self a Sinclair lug recess tool it will make cleaning and lubricating that area a breeze. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/8/2003 11:05:35 AM EDT
I have been using TW25B on pistols for quite some time. The MC-2500 oil is new to me. Any problems with using just TW25B on all parts on the AR, excluding the chamber? TW25B is supplied to me so I have PLENTY.
Link Posted: 3/8/2003 4:04:44 PM EDT
The MC-2500 oil is just a oil form of TW-25B so Mil-comm says. The only reason I use the oil for the bore and fire control etc. is that its easier to get in those areas for me. Although I have recently found that the TW-25B can be forced into the trigger pin,safety etc. by applying it to the areas and blowing it around or into the parts with compressed air. So I guess TW-25B is good for every place on the weapon and the oil is not necessary. But I still prefer the lighter easier to apply oil for bore protection and the outer surfaces of the weapons. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/12/2003 6:12:18 AM EDT
Kleen-Bore offers an oil labeled "TW25 B High Tech Oil" so it might be the same stuff.
Link Posted: 3/12/2003 9:20:28 PM EDT
Blankwaffe98 & S-28: I'm finally gonna have some free time to "clean up" my Bushy and apply the Mil-Comm stuff this weekend. Plus, I'm going to apply this stuff to my brand, spanking new Browning Hi Power. I'll let you guys know how it goes if all goes as planned. Once again, thanks for all the help.
Link Posted: 3/13/2003 8:00:29 AM EDT
Waiting w/ baited breath. I have been following this post closely. I have asked many peeps and all say 'stay w/ CLP' so I am interested to say the least!!
Link Posted: 3/13/2003 8:27:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wrecktech: Kleen-Bore offers an oil labeled "TW25 B High Tech Oil" so it might be the same stuff.
View Quote
I have some of both and the Kleen Bore TW-25B High Tech is the same oil as the Mil-comm MC-2500 OIL for sure. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/13/2003 9:21:44 AM EDT
Urban once you get started cleaning and lubing you will see that its not as hard as you think to do. Just do one part at a time,clean and lube that way the parts do not stand degreased for long periods and nothing is missed. If the weapon is clean and only has clp on the surfaces I have found that the alcohol removes the clp much more effectively than the MC-25 cleaner.So just wipe as much of the clp off as you can with a dry rag,then wipe the surfaces down with alcohol and then wiped dry with a clean rag.Once the surface looks dry and clean apply the MC-2500 oil or TW-25B.Thats it. Also I have found that if you apply the TW-25B and then rub it in with your fingers it really lets the TW-25B bond to the metal. I treated my 92fs with TW-25B last night in about 20 minutes,that includes cleaning after firing. It gave the 92 a nice dull finish that looks dry until you touch it,at that point you can tell the lube is there.Gives the surfaces a silky smooth surface to the touch.What is nice about the TW-25B is that it will not just rub off or come off when you touch the surfaces,it stays put for a very long time. A light coating will not let dirt,dust or fouling attach.The dirt and dust will just blow off and the fouling wipes off.Water will not even stand on the surfaces of the mil-comm covered metal.Im amazed at how well this stuff works. I love the stuff and Im sure you will to. Let me know if I can help. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/16/2003 5:42:06 PM EDT
Blankwaffe98: Didn't have a chance to lube my firearms, yet. I've been so busy with school and work... At any rate, I found some 91% alcohol, but I was wondering where I could find alcohol with a higher content? I asked the pharmacist at Walgreen's where I could find 95-99% alcohol, but she was clueless. I probably won't get to clean up my rifle and pistol 'till spring break rolls around. That's when I'll have a break from my grad classes. -UK
Link Posted: 3/17/2003 7:35:25 PM EDT
UK, The most common is the 91% isopropyl from what I have found and works perfectly.In fact thats what Mil-comm uses in the EP spray I think. Although I have found 93% and 96% isopropyl at CVS Pharmacy. I have been using the 91% since its available at the near by wal-mart at seventy cents a bottle. I think 91% isopropyl is what S-28 uses as well. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/17/2003 7:40:25 PM EDT
By the way I just learned in a conversation with Mil-comm that TW-25B will not bond to chrome.So a light coat of the MC-2500 oil in your chrome bore and chamber is all thats needed for storage/protection.Save the TW-25B for the other parts. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/17/2003 8:02:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98: By the way I just learned in a conversation with Mil-comm that TW-25B will not bond to chrome.So a light coat of the MC-2500 oil in your chrome bore and chamber is all thats needed for storage/protection.Save the TW-25B for the other parts. Raymond
View Quote
You know, I never really took the time to put any CLP in the CHAMBER before storage. I always put a light coat of CLP in the bore, but never in the chamber, before storage. I guess cuz I didn't know HOW to applay any CLP in the chamber. That part was usually cleaned out with SC Bore Cleaner and a GI chamber brush then flushed out with SC Quick Scrub III to get all the solvent out. The bore was then cleaned out with a couple of dry patches to get the solvent out...but you know, i don't ever remember paying attention to the freaking bore...hmm Okay, so how do YOU get a LIGHT coat of MC-2500 oil in the bore? Just wet a patch on the rod and don't use the rod guide? Man, I've never asked so many question on how to do something! LOL.
Link Posted: 3/17/2003 8:28:50 PM EDT
For storage its good to put a light coat of oil in the bore and chamber to prevent any possibility of corrosion in the long term. Most solvents like quick srub will remove all traces of oil/inhibitors leaving the bore and chamber completely dry.So I would put a coat of oil in the bore for rust protection.Chrome can corrode although not easily. Yeah Just wet a patch with the MC-2500 oil and oil the chamber and bore followed by a dry patch to remove any excess lube to prevent migration or pooling during storage. Before firing,dry the bore with a couple of patches to remove the oil. If you use clp to clean with it will leave a film of oil in the bore and chamber for protection.So a final coat of oil is not needed with clp for protection. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/25/2003 3:34:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2003 3:43:38 PM EDT by urbankaos04]
I finally got around to using and applying the Mil-Comm products this weekend, plus I got to try out my brand new, never-been-fired BHP MK III. The process wasn't as difficult as I initially thought. You just have to do it in order to get the hang of it. It took me about an hour to degrease and lube my pistol. I'm probably sure that people could it faster, but I took the extra step of using a blow dryer to heat up the parts AFTER I had wiped down parts with the 91% isopropyl alcohol. Just wanted to make sure the alcohol flash dryed. At any rate, here is what I did: 1. I field stripped the pistol down to it's 4 major parts: slide, barrel, recoil spring and recoil spring guide, and frame. 2. I worked on one part at a time in order to not let the pistol be exposed to the elements unprotected. 3. Here's how I cleaned and lubed each of the four major parts (I'm only talking about the slide here, but this is the same process used for all 3 other major parts): a)First, I sprayed the cleaner/degreaser directly onto the slide and then WIPED it off with a clean cloth. b)I then moistened another piece of with 91% isopropyl alcohol and thoroughly wiped down the slide. THEN I used a blow dryer (I was told this step is NOT necessary, but I thought I'd just take and extra step to make sure all the alcohol was gone by flash drying it) to "flash dry" the alcohol. c)I then sprayed (squirted is more like it cuz the bottle shot out more of a stream than a spray) the MC2500 lubricant onto the slide. I expected a fine spray, but what I got was more of a stream (the lube seemed kinda thick) and it made a bit of a mess. Instead, I opted to shoot the lube into a clean cloth and then WIPE down the slide with it. WA-LA! I was now done with the slide. d)I noticed that my tube of TW25B was looking kinda lonely, so I used A LITTLE BIT on the slide and frame rails. I also dabbed a little onto the barrel "locking lugs" (is that what they are called?). I didn't really use the TW25B as much. But the pistol still came out feeling silky smooth. Essentially, I repeated the same steps with each major component of the pistol. Being the obsessive person I am, I even dropped a couple of drops of MC2500 into the trigger mechanism. When cycling the pistol, believe it or not, by hand it FELT smoother. My brother, who initially stated that the slide was "kinda hard to pull back" now stated "wow, it got easier to do this!" Hmm, is this stuff slick or what? I took my BHP for a test run out in the country the NEXT day and shot about 100 rds through it. The pistol functioned flawlessly, zero malfunctions. Once we got used to the trigger (has a fair amount of slack), we saw how accurate this BHP really is! One thing though, I think I kinda overlubed the pistol. There was a fair amount of lube that worked its way down onto the trigger because of the 2-3 drops I put on the trigger components. Plus, there were another one or two area where you could visibly see lub collecting. Ooops, I wont be doing that again. I need to back off of how much of the MC2500 I use. Cleaning the gun was a snap. All I did was WIPE down the parts and then ligthly reapply a the MC2500 lube by using the lube in the cloth that I had used the other day. This was WAY quicker than the first time. Cleaned up the gun in 15 minutes. It's the initial application that take a while cuz you gotta make sure that you STRIP as much of the old lube as you can. We'll see how the gun and the lube continues to work and I'll keep you guys posted. Next, I gotta clean my trusty AR. I know that's gonna take awhile! Thanks to S-28 and Blankaffe98 for all the help! P.S. Instead of using the TW25B to lube the entire pistol, I opted to use the MC2500 lube (same thing, just in spray form) to apply to the major parts. Some people use the TW25B lube on the entire firearm and then 'touch up' with the MC2500 lube.
Link Posted: 3/25/2003 4:28:23 PM EDT
Sounds good and your welcome. I also really like the MC-2500 oil and is what I use the most on my AR.The TW-25B goes on the high stress areas and the MC-2500 goes everywhere else. The MC-2500 oil gives the weapon a wet look,if you want a dry look use the TW-25B everywhere.The MC-2500 oil will also catch dust if its used in heavy coats so go light with it. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 6:22:47 PM EDT
Sorry for the delay guys... Been going NUTS at work for the last several weeks,and just ain't had the time to stop in. Apologies. Urban, Good ta hear ya finally tried the stuff. On the Isopropyl.91% will do. Also denatured will do,but will cost a bunch more. Applying EP to a cold surface and heating with a blowdryer seems to be logical,but conasider cleaning,heating with the blow dryer,and then applying the EP. What is left is a thin coat that has penetrated into all the recesses. Another testimony. Here it's spring and constantly moist. My last Maint. Cycle on the gangs M4's was 4 weeks ago. No rust to report,Period! Have had rain,snow,and 40 degree temp.differentials all in the same day,all the while the rifles and handguns are rubbing against cloth as they are carried. Not to mention the usual spills of Diet Coke,coffee,and food crumbs. Been tossed in the field with the Guys since going to Orange and havn't had a chance to fuss over the rifles since,but my worrys about rust or operation are unfounded. Took a couple rifles to the range for a training cycle last week.Pulled them off the issue line hoping for the best,as everything we have is out there in the field. No failures to report.Despite the fuzz,dust,sand,and dry appearence,or the volume of fire involved(320 rounds per troopie)in the process. The stuff continues to impress me after so many years of using CLP and swearing by the stuff. Good luck to ya! S-28
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 9:04:48 PM EDT
Thanks for the information S-28. I have grown to really like the Mil-comm myself. Looks like a select few use it though.Most folks I talk to have never heard of it. It works for me and makes me wonder why the military does not use it in the small arms. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/30/2003 1:54:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2003 5:07:40 PM EDT by urbankaos04]
I ran 200 rds through my new BHP last night night. 100 rds of Winchester 115 gr FMJ practice ammo and 100 rds of Winchester 147 gr JHP Ranger ammo. Pistol ran great, zero malfunctions. Pistol got pretty hot...shot all that in about 45 minutes and did a couple of rapid fire drills. When I got home, I took the pistol apart and wiped everything down then slapped it back together. Question: What do I do now? Do I use the cleaner/degreaser and reapply the MC2500 (Sparingly!)? Or do I just go directly with the MC2500?
Link Posted: 3/30/2003 5:32:19 PM EDT
If its real nasty or has some areas of fouling that will just not wipe off on the frame or slide etc. then you can use the MC-25 cleaner.Once the MC-25 cleaner has been wiped off as well as the fouling just oil it up with MC-2500 or TW-25B. Otherwise most if not all fouling should just wipe off without the cleaner. Same for the bore.Spray the bore brush and bore with the MC-25 cleaner and run it through the bore as needed followed with some patches.Then dry patch and oil. The MC-2500 oil will pull some fouling out as well. Raymond
Link Posted: 3/30/2003 5:38:48 PM EDT
Thanks for the prompt reply. Mil-Comm is great, isn't it?
Link Posted: 3/30/2003 7:47:24 PM EDT
Blankwaffe, Our Military IS using the stuff. The Navy has been using it for years. Late 80's if I remember right. Matter of fact I learned of it round about through a friend,that does exit training for our Spec ops folks. He got wind of it through a certain Col. that is held in high esteem amoung our Airborne doggies that keep a large number of toys underground where rust was an issue for decades. Currently,the stuff is in the inventory and available,as it has a NSN and is an approved alternate. The stuff has seen lots of use in the 'stan,and is in use now. For dusty/sandy environs the drill is a bit different. Apply as normal,then wipe dry.No wet lube for the crud to stick to,and lubrication is still better than with CLP or other wet lubes. It isn't in general issue though,don't get me wrong.CLP is still king in that regard as it should be as a "One for all". Oh and uhh....NO I have no connection to the folks at Mil-Comm other than using the stuff at work,and on my own weapons. Good luck to you! S-28
Link Posted: 3/31/2003 9:43:02 PM EDT
Thanks again for the info S-28. So the military is using TW-25B in the desert environments on the M4'S and M16A2's etc.. I was wondering what they were using in all that dirt and dust that kept the weapons running. Raymond
Link Posted: 4/2/2003 1:56:22 AM EDT
Just to inform you a little, I work for the Tank Armament Command based out of Rock Island Arsenal. Currently stationed in Kuwait/Iraq as a field maintenance tech. All we are using (in the 3ID, and on all AH64's) is TW25B. We currently are using it on all small arms (M9, M4/16, M249, M240, M2 & MK19) and it is unbeatable. TW25B was originally developed in 1984 to be used on the MK19, for some reason the official Army policy was not to buy off on it. Don't know why. I was first introduced to it in the Gulf War for use on the M230 for the Apache. This is the only lube we've found that can with stand the desert environment for the Apache. At present Rock Island is in the process of converting over to TW25B for all small arms use in the Army. Yes there are numerous NSN (about ½ the price of civilian cost) and I’ve got my lifetime supply sitting under my bunk. Smitty
Link Posted: 4/2/2003 2:14:01 AM EDT
Thanks for the info smitty. What do you use out in the field to clean the heavy fouling off with,MC-25 cleaner? What are the ground pounders using for a cleaner and bore solvent for the tough spots when needed? Raymond
Link Posted: 4/2/2003 2:28:45 AM EDT
We have tried the Mil-Comm cleaner and it works Ok for slight fouling. On heavily carboned guns (hate to say this) they are soaking parts in JP-8. Perfect example is the gas regulators for the saw's and 240's. It really is doing a good job. Not sure about the long-term effect, but in this environment, who cares? Everyone over here that has used the TW25B absolutely loves it. M2's can be cleaned after a 50-mile road march with a paintbrush and then be easily charged with one hand. The sand just does not stick to this stuff and carbon fouling has decreased by three fold. Smitty
Link Posted: 4/2/2003 6:08:20 PM EDT
Thanks again smitty. Raymond
Link Posted: 4/6/2003 9:26:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2003 9:29:09 PM EDT by urbankaos04]
Okay, I have about 500 rds through my pistol now. AFter every session, I field strip the pistol into it's major components and WIPE everything down. Then I'd use the MC25 to degrease everything, but I think it's a bit too excessive to degrease everything and then re-lube. From now on, I'm just going to use the MC25 to get whatever fouling there is in the barrel. As for everything else, I'm just going to wipe stuff down and then MAYBE apply a light coat of MC2500 via a moistned cloth. Blankwaffe98: BTW, did you say to leave a slight film on MC25 in the barrel? Isn't that a no-no? Wont that cause some major problems if one were to shoot the weapon? I'm just thinking it's better to leave it wiped clean in case you ever have to use the pistol at home in case something happens (i.e., break in)? Or am I missing something here? ONE LAST THING: Should I rinse off my bronze bore brush? I'm so used to having to degrease my AR's bbronze bore brushes when using Shooter's Choice that it seems weird to not have to do this when using Mil-Comm's cleaner/degreaser. This stuff won't attack the brushes, right?
Link Posted: 4/7/2003 6:33:04 PM EDT
To clean the frame,slide etc. all you should need to do is wipe the parts down.If fouling is heavy use a G.I. double ended cleaning/tooth brush,then wipe clean and relube.The only time I use the MC-25 cleaner is for heavy baked on fouling and as a follow up after using a bore cleaner or as a bore cleaner. The MC-25 will not harm your bore brushes. As for leaving a light coat of oil in the bore its recommended for storage and protection during carry/use. I would not leave a heavy coat of oil in the bore as large amounts can cause problems and is not recommended. What I do is run a patch that is saturated with MC-2500 oil through the bore a few times to make sure its coated well.Then I run a dry patch or two through the chamber and bore to remove excess.Thats leaves just enough to protect the bore,anymore oil than that and it will migrate/pool and can cause problems.Thats what I consider a light coat of oil as it is very minimal amounts remaining as a very thin film. Its about the same amount that would remain in the bore if you cleaned with CLP and then dry patched the bore. I would rather have a very slight amount of oil in the barrel and chamber than I would rust.Light surface rust in a chamber and bore can be far more dangerous and damaging than a very very thin coat of oil. Chrome bores on AR's and Beretta 92's will not rust easily but I have seen it happen. So just oil the bore and run a couple dry patches through the bore and your good to go,its protected from the elements and safe to shoot if needed.Thats the way I was trained and I have never had a problem. Raymond
Link Posted: 4/7/2003 7:54:38 PM EDT
Learn something new everyday. Thanks for the inforamtion, Raymond. I still haven't got around to my trusty AR, but I've been extremely busy with school and work. Man, I sure am itching to take her out again. The weather has been beautiful...
Link Posted: 4/13/2003 2:27:03 PM EDT
Urbankasos04 (and others here), Great to hear your guys have found the Mil-Comm line. Up until about 2 years ago I was a CLP user and really didnt have a problem with that product. But like many of you, I'm a strong proponent of a cleaning product which isnt so hard on the person using it (ie vapors and fingers). For those of you who HAVEN'T used it....DEFINITELY give it a try. Once is all it takes. I promote it's use on my site and use it exclusively on all my weapons. I have literature digitized which can be requested if needed (just e-mail). Jeff
Link Posted: 4/14/2003 6:08:20 PM EDT
Has anybody tried AMS oil on a rifle. Its 100% synthetic and they sell it in a spray can like WD-40. I think it might work pretty well. Tom
Link Posted: 4/24/2003 11:22:19 AM EDT
Great infommercial, even if the scripted voice shows through.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 12:22:04 PM EDT
Yes it has indeed been an excellant infomercial and I just sent in my order. Even though it may not be necessary to strip the lower of its several components on the AR/M series rifles I have done so on many occasion and will do it again when the Mil-Comm products arrive. Granted it may not be the smartest thing to do re: possible wear to the trigger and hammer pins/holes but I think it is a very small risk to get these surfaces properly lubed in the beginning and perhaps once or twice a year thereafter depending on use until such time as the product has had an opportunity to really bond to the contact surfaces sear, disconnector and hammer (where it contacts the bolt carrier). Thanks to all for the heads up on htis product. Mark
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