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Posted: 9/21/2002 3:23:18 AM EDT
Love cleaning with CLP but don't like that it's thin and tends to run toward the buffer tube when stored in the safe. I am thinking about using LSA or Break Free LP for lubricating the upper and CLP for the rest. Any thoughts yall care to offer?
Link Posted: 9/21/2002 9:19:51 PM EDT
Unless it "New and Improved with scrubbing bubbles", I have had my fill with LSA.

Also, I don't know how the LSA and CLP will mix. My guess is that the mix will just gum up, of at the very least, the CLP will loose it cleaning abilities.
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 10:03:29 AM EDT
1. The Army replaced LSA (and RBC) about 20 years ago. Most LSA you find will be at least 20 years old. Any good?? Who knows??
2. Are you shaking the CLP to get the Teflon floating in the liquid?? That white stuff in the bottom of the bottle is the Teflon and needs to be in suspension in the rest of the liquid.
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 8:58:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OldTiger:
1. The Army replaced LSA (and RBC) about 20 years ago. Most LSA you find will be at least 20 years old. Any good?? Who knows??
2. Are you shaking the CLP to get the Teflon floating in the liquid?? That white stuff in the bottom of the bottle is the Teflon and needs to be in suspension in the rest of the liquid.


the Army did not replace LSA. I have been an armorer for the last 18 months. I have received several shipments of "new" LSA. I have no problems w/ the stuff as long as you don't mix it w/ CLP. Plus it does not attract as much dirt as CLP.

________________________________________________
life is to short to drink cheap
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 9:27:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OldTiger:
2. Are you shaking the CLP to get the Teflon floating in the liquid?? That white stuff in the bottom of the bottle is the Teflon and needs to be in suspension in the rest of the liquid.




Originally Posted By stingerjg:
I have no problems w/ the stuff as long as you don't mix it w/ CLP. Plus it does not attract as much dirt as CLP.



Tiger: I surely do shake that baby up before I use it.

Sting: What adverse effect will it have when mixing CLP and LSA? Does that mean I can't clean with CLP at all if I decide to use LSA to lubricate the inside of upper receiver?
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 12:26:04 AM EDT


Sting: What adverse effect will it have when mixing CLP and LSA? Does that mean I can't clean with CLP at all if I decide to use LSA to lubricate the inside of upper receiver?



just as long as you wipe all of the excess CLP off you can use the LSA. If you mix the two the CLP will break down the LSA and it will have a "gummy" residue.
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 9:01:57 AM EDT
Orange neck,
(Nice twist on the handle!)

LSA like Stinger said is still being used,made,and in stock.I have 3 gallons of the gorp(Not for use on food Machines..whatever that means)in the shop that uh...fell off the truck recently.The stuff works OK.Nothing to write home about,but it works as well as,or better than,some of the Commercial crap the F.U.D.D.'s are puting on their deer rifles.

I am finishing up a rather lengthy,but admitted hillbilly T&E of Mil-Comm TW25B for both personal interest and in the name of easing my workload professionally.

The TW25B flat kicks the seeds out of both Breakfree and LSA in most areas,unless you are a Grunt and have limited space/weight allowance for cleaning gear.

As a preservative both LSA and CLP aren't so good.As a lube both do a good job.CLP is a unremarkable cleaner,but does all three jobs and so gets the nod,and there is nothing better in it's niche.

TW25b is a grease with the consistency of cold cream,so it defy's being called a grease.
Put the stuff on with an acid brush in a VERY thin coating and it will not run,and will suspend any gorp that contacts it without getting gummy.

Apply it thin then wipe it off till things feel dry and it still lubricates better than LSA or CLP...just don't expect it to clean.

I have yet to find a better preservative based upon the "Weather plate" I use here in the swamp to test such things against the Michigan Manitou.

Ya know that annoying brass skid mark that forms on the brass deflector of an A2?

With the TW25B,it pretty much just wipes off with a rag after firing,and the rest comes off with application of a bit of simple green on the rag.

LSA can be had MUCH cheaper though....and still has it's merits.

Try them all on for size yourself and see what inspires your confidence.Afterall that's what it's all about in the end.

Best of luck to ya!
S-28

Link Posted: 9/26/2002 9:38:49 AM EDT
In the late 70's, I used to have a subordinate who would LSA the heck out of our mini-gun feeders. A month later, they'd be jammed up with white goop from the LSA. No CLP involved as we didn't have any at the time. Finally had to stop LSA application until we went to the range. Oiled them with GPLO until it was gunnery time.
What are you using LSA on?? Probably not M-16's (all the TM's had gone over to CLP). M-60's?? M-2's?? Mortars?? I doubt mortars as the lack of air circulation in the tube would have LSA gooped. I should make a couple of calls and ask the folks here, since I work in the armament side of TACOM.
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 10:58:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stingerjg:
the Army did not replace LSA. I have been an armorer for the last 18 months. I have received several shipments of "new" LSA. I have no problems w/ the stuff as long as you don't mix it w/ CLP. Plus it does not attract as much dirt as CLP.



So what do you recommend for AR's ???
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 11:33:36 AM EDT
I stand corrected. The maintenance technician for the M-16 just informed me that CLP, LSA, and LAW are all recommended for the M-16 depending upon the climate. They shall not be mixed.

I prefer CLP/Breakfree in mine.
Link Posted: 9/27/2002 10:51:02 AM EDT
Thank you to all who opined on this topic.

S-28: Glad you got a kick out of my handle. What else could I possibly use to describe an Asian guy who likes to hunt and fish? I know my WV father-in-law got a big laugh out of it when I told him. BTW, if TW25B is not for cleaning, what do you use to clean before using the TW25B to lube?

I believe, for now, I'll use the CLP to clean the AR and the LP to lube it. RBC and LSA for the M1 carbine (Hey, I am a sentimental guy. Gotta use the old stuff for a WW2 shooter.)
Link Posted: 9/27/2002 12:33:11 PM EDT
Want to be "politically correct" for the carbine, it's General Purpose Lubricating Oil and white lithium grease (besides the RBC).
Link Posted: 9/27/2002 3:27:45 PM EDT
White lithium grease?! Got a jar of that too. Perhaps, I'll use it for the operating slide guideway. Much obliged, OldTiger.
Link Posted: 9/27/2002 4:19:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/27/2002 11:51:49 PM EDT
Orange neck,
Properly applied,the TW25B should have nothing but metal underneath it,which means first stripping the whole rifle of all oils with Gun scrubber,Rem action cleaner,or an extended bath in the sonic tank for the first application.

Once applied,all you need for cleaning is a water based cleaner like offered from Mil-Comm,or Mpro-7,simple green etc.

The lube cannot be removed except by a very powerfull degreaser,or high pressure steam once applied.There's no wiping the stuff off and is why I went with it in the end where I work.
The folks kept "Helping me out" after getting their rifles soaking wet in the rain or snow by wiping them down with paper towels(Soaking up water AND CLP)and then heading back out in the slop.The TW25B has effectively ended our problems with rust,and I may extend maint. cycles here in the future because of it.

As for the bore,I use a Bore guide and traditional methods involving Hoppe's,a brush,and even Sweets or Rem. Bore cleaner(Used to be Gold Medallion,and is similar to JB Bore paste but in a squeeze bottle)when the rifles have had 1,500 rounds or so through them and the copper and carbon deposits are hardened.

Treating the bore with TW25B cuts down on fouling a bit,but remember to punch the bore DRY after running a lube patch through it.

After cleaning I re-apply the TW25 in what is called "EP" form,and that is 4oz of TW25B mixed with 1 qt of 91% Isopropyl alcohol,and then shaken like mad untill it suspends in the spray bottle.Just spritz everything but the plastic parts,let the alcohol evaporate,and what is left is a thin,almost dry layer of lube that seeps into all the crevaces.

A dab on the barrel extension tool swab is run into the barrel extension,and a thicker coat is applied to the bolt lugs(High pressure point),and I'm done.

During testing,My personal M4 went 1,300 rounds without cleaning or reapplication.
One of our range rifles has gone 1,800 rounds so far with nothing but a wipedown with a dry rag and one reapplication(I felt Guilty).

I'm using the stuff on my handguns as well now,and it flat works!
Even on a stainless framed 1911 with a Carbon slide(Frankenpistol..if ya gots parts put 'em together!) that used to gall like mad unless rig+P stainless grease was used.

Corrosion resistence is supposed to be better than 2.5 times that of 10% Nickle stainless steel,when applied to 4150 parkerized carbon steel.I dunno about that,but from my testing on the weather plate,it's better than anything else out there including Valvoline Blue bearing grease!

If you get a wild hair,give it a try.

best of luck to ya.
S-28
(Pale blue neck...it's a Michigan thing)

Link Posted: 9/28/2002 2:25:31 AM EDT
Good point by MickeyMouse on the different varieties of CLP. I have been an armorer for three years and all the new CLP is by Royal and from what I can see - it contains little or no teflon in it. The older bottles of CLP ( Breakfree) do have teflon but most are expired (not sure "how" CLP expires but technically it does). The LSA is still in use along with LSAT (LSA with Teflon for the MK-19 MODIII 40mm MG and other big weapons). I still use RBC since this is one of the only things I am allowed to clean a MK19 with and it does a good job of removing carbon from other weapons. I have cans of LAW here to but have never used the stuff.
Link Posted: 9/29/2002 12:37:44 PM EDT
S-28

Do you think the MC-2500 oil would work better with the alchohol? Just wondered if already being a viscous liquid it might go into suspension easier. It supposedly has the same lube/protect qualities as the thicker TW-25.
Link Posted: 9/29/2002 4:51:07 PM EDT
Brownfam,
The reason I am using the TW25B as an "EP" solution is to speed up application,and get the stuff to seep into areas like the front sight detent and spring,Bolt catch spring and detent etc..When the alcohol carrier evaporates it leaves a very thin film of the grease on the parts.

The 2500 is a traditional oil with the feel of CLP,and is of course wet and runny.Both things I wish to avoid,but understand completely your hesitation considering your AK location.
However,after once applied,and then wiped dry to the touch the TW25B grease will protect and lubricate as well as with a thin film,so worrys about the stuff thickening up in the cold,can be done away with as there is no film drag possible.In addition,the working temp. for the grease is -40 to 360 some degrees IIRC.
Granted 40 below might be possible for you for a couple of months.I would avoid the 2500 in your application simply to avoid film drag,and the stuff running to where I couldn't get at it to dry it off after application as easily.

I have it on good accord that the TW25B is being used as apply&wipe off by many of our troops in the 'stan simply to keep the grit and gorp from sticking like with conventional lubes now that they have tribal knowledge to pass amoung other units and branches.

I got a sample of the 2500 and it's good stuff,but it's not what I need for my uses both personally,and professionally...If ya think it might work better for ya,give it a run and let us know what you think...I am curious as well.

Keep safe up there!
S-28
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