AR Sponsor
Posted: 11/29/2013 4:08:58 PM EDT
|
I just finished building my dad a rifle for Christmas and took it out today to test fire and sight it in so that it is all good to go when I give it to him. After the first round I noticed more than what seemed normal smoke coming from the charging handle area, so I inspected the case for signs of over pressure. I did not see any signs, no case bulges, primer seemed normal, all seemed good to go. I fired the second round and it failed to extract. I went ahead and dropped the mag and cycled the bolt again to see if it would grab and pull it, but it wouldn't grab it. Of course, I didn't bring a rod so there was nothing I could do. When I got it home it pushed out easily with a one piece cleaning rod. The brass has a four noticeable marks on it, maybe 2 to 3 thousandths deep (see pictures). The barrel is this one: http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XATIB556M4
Is this a rough chamber? If so, should I be trying to fix it, or sending the barrel to Mossberg? Please help. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62856451/stuckcase-1.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62856451/stuckcase-2.jpg |
|
I thought I grabbed a mag of factory ammo, but it appears to have been my reloads. 24 Grains of AA230 with 55gr fmjbt projectile. Seated to 2.260 oal because that is where the cannelure happens to be.
I did a normal cleaning of the bolt, bore and chamber before taking it out. Scrubbed with Hoppes / toothbrush, then patch down the barrel and two passes with the bore snake. Also, there is a noticeable bevel where the extractor was trying to grab the case, it was definitely hooking it pretty good. Also, see better pictures above that I switched out. |
|
Quoted:
I just finished building my dad a rifle for Christmas and took it out today to test fire and sight it in so that it is all good to go when I give it to him. After the first round I noticed more than what seemed normal smoke coming from the charging handle area, so I inspected the case for signs of over pressure. I did not see any signs, no case bulges, primer seemed normal, all seemed good to go. I fired the second round and it failed to extract. I went ahead and dropped the mag and cycled the bolt again to see if it would grab and pull it, but it wouldn't grab it. Of course, I didn't bring a rod so there was nothing I could do. When I got it home it pushed out easily with a one piece cleaning rod. The brass has a four noticeable marks on it, maybe 2 to 3 thousandths deep (see pictures). The barrel is this one: http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XATIB556M4 Is this a rough chamber? If so, should I be trying to fix it, or sending the barrel to Mossberg? Please help. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62856451/stuckcase-1.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62856451/stuckcase-2.jpg Appears to be a rough chamber - probably chatter from worn tooling. With a lathe and shaped mandrel, it could be polished, but maybe better to contact the maker. What I'd worry more about is the divot on the side, below the shoulder: what made *that*? 
HTH GSM |
| So I did some more testing after reading up on these types of issues. I was able to get some ammo that I had to cycle and extract fine. However, some factory rounds that I had, as well as the reloads produced stuck cases. It's great and all that it will cycle with certain factory rounds, but I still feel like it is rough and or maybe not to spec. It headspaced fine when I was putting it together. Should I still contact mossberg you think? |
|
Quoted:
So I did some more testing after reading up on these types of issues. I was able to get some ammo that I had to cycle and extract fine. However, some factory rounds that I had, as well as the reloads produced stuck cases. It's great and all that it will cycle with certain factory rounds, but I still feel like it is rough and or maybe not to spec. It headspaced fine when I was putting it together. Should I still contact mossberg you think? Yes. Keep in mind that the higher the chamber pressures, the more the case will try to embed into whatever irregularities are present. You may have found some ammo that has sufficiently low pressure to work, but what happens when you need to run full-power stuff? GSM |
|
Maybe rough reaming of the chamber, but ditch the tooth paste and Hoppes, and clean the chamber again with a chamber brush, then finish cleaning the rifle with CLP to flush out any remaining Hoppes and tooth paste.
Once you have chamber brush/CLP cleaned the chamber and barrel, take a look at the chamber surfaces for reamer chatter; and remember to lube the upper bearing areas with CLP before trying live fire through the rifle again. Also, ditch the bore snake. To clean the Bore of that barrel alone (again, CLP and a chamber brush for the chamber after you have cleaned the bore first), use something like Sweets solvent. It will remove the copper build up quickly, and once you clean the chamber/rifle afterwards (remember to run dry patch down the chamber and bore until the come out dry), the residual CLP in the bore although you may think that it bone dry, will still leave a protective coating for short term shortage. |
|
not tooth paste, just an old tooth brush for scrubbing the bolt and external areas/feed ramps.
Hoppes and CLP usually for chamber and bore cleaning. Is there a specific chamber brush? I've heard .35 and .33 caliber brass brushes for cleaning the chamber. Is there a more specific tool? |
http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/brushes-amp-bore-snakes/chamber-brushes/m16-ar-15-chamber-brushes-prod1234.aspx
And dump the Hoppes solvent for use in the rifle. Hoppes cleaning solvent leaves behind a protective residue that just cause fouling build up even faster, and much works, when Hoppes is mixed with CLP, the cleaning agent in CLP just turns the two into some kind of pine tar that collects fouling even faster then the Hoppes protective residue alone. As for Hoppes oil, does not have a cleaning agent in it, so again, CLP is the cleaner and lube for the rifle. If you need a source for CLP, then BreakfreeCLP in the large 16oz spray can from Walmart for under $10. |
So far no good. 
I contacted Mossberg who told me I needed to contact AIM for information on this product. I contacted AIM who gave me contact information for ATI (American Tactical) who they said they get the product from. ATI transferred me to what seemed like a subsidiary based on the guy I spoke with, but I didn't catch the name. When I was transferred I got an answering machine. Left a message, we'll see if I hear back. I went ahead and also contacted ATI through the e-mail address that AIM gave me, explaining the situation and including the pictures of the brass. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. On the upside, AIM was very helpful and urged me to get back to them if I have any issues. We'll see if I need to. I'll try to keep you all updated. -Rick |
| Your chamber is FUBARED and AIM needs to replace it. The worst AR-15 Barrel I ever looked at with my Borescope was a Mossberg. It looked like an angry beaver had worked on it from one end to the other. I polished out the chamber on my lathe and it shot ok. I didn't buy anymore after that one. I would recommend you get a Wilson Arms for a budget build. They can be found for around a $130. I also like the barrels from ESS Solutions, They are offering Nitriding now and you can pick one up for around $100. |
| The two shots out of the barrel were actually quite accurate, but the chamber is FUBAR. I want to give the manufacturer a few hours to get back to me, if they don't I will press AIM. Problem is my dad bought most of the parts for this rifle and I decided to finish it for him for Christmas, so whatever I do I want to make sure I can put it back together and test it before Christmas so I can give it to him on time. |
|
No word back, and I tried calling manufacturer again with similar results. I ordered this barrel to replace it: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/616771/voodoo-barrel-ar-15-556x45mm-nato-m4-contour-carbine-gas-port-1-in-7-twist-16-chrome-moly-black-melonite-finish?cm_cat=CheckoutConfirm&cm_pla=ProductDescrip
I'm pushing AIM for a refund. |
|
Have you chamber brush/CLP cleaned the chamber to take a look at the chamber with a light for reaming chatter/ridge marking before jumping the gun and calling the chamber bad?
I can dig up a half dozen posts over the years of the same brass markings from ops that had the same problem as you, only to find out that the chambers where still packed with storage grease and shop assembly debris that has not been removed post firing that caused the mar'g instead. Once the chambers where correctly cleaned, turned out that the chamber were smooth as babies ass, and the cycling problem went right way. So on that note, get the chamber clean with a chamber brush, then post some photo's of the cleaned chamber. With the markings on your brass, the chamber reaming chatter/ridging should be pretty obvious, even with a crappy photo. |
|
I did clean the chamber thoroughly a couple of times. I pulled the barrel last night to make sure it was a nice thorough cleaning, and there are two noticeable burrs in the chamber that you can't clean away.
Just to be sure, I remounted the barrel and tried to cycle rounds, and sure enough, stuck bolt. The chamber is jacked. Heard back from ATI today wanting to do an RMA, but I ordered a barrel yesterday because I don't want my dad's Christmas present not to be ready for Christmas. I'd like to still get a refund from AIM, but I guess if I have to I will do the RMA and figure out what to do with the barrel when I get it back. |
AR Sponsor