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Posted: 8/28/2011 7:01:45 PM EDT
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has anyone ever seen this happen?
was shooting 223 rounds in a Rockriver lar15 probably shot 30 - 60 rounds set it aside shot my sons s&w 15/22 for an hour i guess then i remembered i had my Atchisson 22 cal conversion bolt with me so i put it in the ar and about halfway through the mag i pulled the trigger and it just popped and burnt a little hair off my left hand i cleared the weapon and the round was about halfway down the barrel had to push it out with a cleaning rod here is a pic http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e173/bob_payne/Misc%20Pics/explodinground.jpg i pulled the conversion kit out and fired probably 50 -60 more 223 rounds with no problems thanks |
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Try here http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_3/15_Rimfire_and_Pistol_Calibers.html
They might be able to help |
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Round was not all the way in the chamber/bolt was not all the way closed when you pulled the trigger, so kind of on the normal side.
Why I say normal is lets take a True full auto HK G-3. On this rifle, until the bolt has locked up. the safety/full auto sear is not going to release the hammer. In a Semi auto Ar-15, until the bolt locks up, the FP is going to be blocked by the back of the carrier. But here is the rub, in a 22lr conversion kit, you would think that the manufacture would make the distance to the back of the bolt so until the bolt fully was seated home/forward, the hammer could not touch the Firing pin, Right? Nope, if they did that, then just dropping the disco and letting the hammer play follow-through would allow the gun to run full auto. So instead, you have that gap the prevents follow through full auto firing, and you can get a ignition out of battery. |
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Quoted: Round was not all the way in the chamber/bolt was not all the way closed when you pulled the trigger, so kind of on the normal side. Why I say normal is lets take a True full auto HK G-3. On this rifle, until the bolt has locked up. the safety/full auto sear is not going to release the hammer. In a Semi auto Ar-15, until the bolt locks up, the FP is going to be blocked by the back of the carrier. But here is the rub, in a 22lr conversion kit, you would think that the manufacture would make the distance to the back of the bolt so until the bolt fully was seated home/forward, the hammer could not touch the Firing pin, Right? Nope, if they did that, then just dropping the disco and letting the hammer play follow-through would allow the gun to run full auto. So instead, you have that gap the prevents follow through full auto firing, and you can get a ignition out of battery. I've never used a 22lr conversion kit before and had no idea this was the case, so the design to make sure it never goes full auto kid of makes them unsafe.  |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Round was not all the way in the chamber/bolt was not all the way closed when you pulled the trigger, so kind of on the normal side. Why I say normal is lets take a True full auto HK G-3. On this rifle, until the bolt has locked up. the safety/full auto sear is not going to release the hammer. In a Semi auto Ar-15, until the bolt locks up, the FP is going to be blocked by the back of the carrier. But here is the rub, in a 22lr conversion kit, you would think that the manufacture would make the distance to the back of the bolt so until the bolt fully was seated home/forward, the hammer could not touch the Firing pin, Right? Nope, if they did that, then just dropping the disco and letting the hammer play follow-through would allow the gun to run full auto. So instead, you have that gap the prevents follow through full auto firing, and you can get a ignition out of battery. I've never used a 22lr conversion kit before and had no idea this was the case, so the design to make sure it never goes full auto kid of makes them unsafe.
Yep, and it gets even worse with some rifles like the semi auto G-3 and AK rifles (to an extent), since when they pulled the safety sear (doubles as a auto sear as well), you can get a out of bolt battery ignition as well. About the only semi rifles that retained the safety sear was the SKS's, which until the bolt has locked up fully, the hammer is not allow to be released. On 22lr rifles, you round the back side of the bolt in the design so if a hammer does follow through on bolt coming back forward (disco fails), it comes down gently on the back of the bolt/FP to prevent ignition. At the same time, if the bolt is not locked up, the hammer strikes the bolt round (not FP), and you either gently lock the bolt up with no ignition, or if the bolt will not move forward, you get no primer strike at all. On the semi AR system, not the case with not as tight clearance between the hammer forward and the bolt closed, and as you can see above, the hammer can reach the FP full power on a bolt not fully closed. Bottom line, as stated, if you where to tighten up the tolerances on the AR bolts/hammer geometry to prevent such, then your back to having the hammer held back by the bottom of the bolt until the bolt is fully locked up (to block at out of battery ignition), allow someone to just pull the disco and turn the rifle in a full auto with out the need of an auto sear. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Round was not all the way in the chamber/bolt was not all the way closed when you pulled the trigger, so kind of on the normal side. Why I say normal is lets take a True full auto HK G-3. On this rifle, until the bolt has locked up. the safety/full auto sear is not going to release the hammer. In a Semi auto Ar-15, until the bolt locks up, the FP is going to be blocked by the back of the carrier. But here is the rub, in a 22lr conversion kit, you would think that the manufacture would make the distance to the back of the bolt so until the bolt fully was seated home/forward, the hammer could not touch the Firing pin, Right? Nope, if they did that, then just dropping the disco and letting the hammer play follow-through would allow the gun to run full auto. So instead, you have that gap the prevents follow through full auto firing, and you can get a ignition out of battery. I've never used a 22lr conversion kit before and had no idea this was the case, so the design to make sure it never goes full auto kid of makes them unsafe. Yep, and it gets even worse with some rifles like the semi auto G-3 and AK rifles (to an extent), since when they pulled the safety sear (doubles as a auto sear as well), you can get a out of bolt battery ignition as well. About the only semi rifles that retained the safety sear was the SKS's, which until the bolt has locked up fully, the hammer is not allow to be released. On 22lr rifles, you round the back side of the bolt in the design so if a hammer does follow through on bolt coming back forward (disco fails), it comes down gently on the back of the bolt/FP to prevent ignition. At the same time, if the bolt is not locked up, the hammer strikes the bolt round (not FP), and you either gently lock the bolt up with no ignition, or if the bolt will not move forward, you get no primer strike at all. On the semi AR system, not the case with not as tight clearance between the hammer forward and the bolt closed, and as you can see above, the hammer can reach the FP full power on a bolt not fully closed. Bottom line, as stated, if you where to tighten up the tolerances on the AR bolts/hammer geometry to prevent such, then your back to having the hammer held back by the bottom of the bolt until the bolt is fully locked up (to block at out of battery ignition), allow someone to just pull the disco and turn the rifle in a full auto with out the need of an auto sear. Thanks Dano, I really appreciate all the info. Wish you were close to me, I'd love to sit down for a couple of beers and pick your brain.  |
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