AR Sponsor
Posted: 5/25/2010 8:41:58 PM EDT
|
Looking for help with my AR. I have been shooting nearly all my adult life and have owned/shot/reloaded a whole bunch of sporters in various calibers. They all grouped well provided I used quality components and shot remarkably well once I got the load fine tuned. I recently started shooting my first AR and just can not get it to group. I do realize that I should not expect the same consistancy out of a tactical rifle as I would see in a bolt action but I keep reading about shooters getting minute of angle groups out of their AR.
What or where should I start looking in my rifle to get acceptable accuracy? It has a 16" barrel, 1/9 with a good receiver, aftermarket trigger group with speed hammer with crisp letoff at a light tactical trigger weight. I have tried 55gr, 60gr and 62gr with various powders and brass. Even store bought 55gr ammo does not give me acceptable groups. The 1-3X Weaver optics is mounted on a good solid one piece but have always went with magnification on my bolt actions. And shot off a good solid bench using sand bag rests. I can shoot sub-minute of angle with any of my bolt action sporters but 3-4" with this AR... Am I expecting too much out of a tactical setup? |
|
Sounds like you know what you're doing, so I might suggest you have the weapon and/or ammo checked over. I get sub-moa @ 100 yards from a bench on all 4 of my AR's, all run-of-the-mill 1:9 16" barrel (ok, well two of them are for the kids when they come of age). 3 of them are Stag barrels, one is a bushmaster. I'm using .223 reloads with 24.5 grains of TAC and Hornady 55Gr FMJ's with Wolf SRM primers. That said, groups aren't so great with most factory ammo... haven't tried it in a while, but 1.5 to 3 MOA isn't unusual I think for standard M193. What bullets are you using on your reloads? I've only ever shot hornady 55gr FMJ's for plinking loads, from what I've heard from others in the reloading forum, Hornady 55Gr FMJ's are the best FMJ's on the market. |
|
Quoted:
Too much LOFT. What is LOFT? As for the bullets I loaded, I've tried Nosler 55gr BT, Hornady 55gr FMJBT and various other "bulk" bullets. The bulk bullets varied visibly and weight but don't seem to group that much worst than premium pills... I'm starting to realize why the previous owner was willing to swap for my P220... Don't know the barrel manufacturer or even the twist for sure. Just going with what the previous owner told me. Maybe I should stick a cleaning rod down the barrel to confirm that it is a 1/9. Could the install have been botched or some misalignment in the barrel mounting? |
|
Need total description of the barrel and even would be nice to know distance to lands as well.
I can't see the barrel really being cooked in a semi without a great deal of round put down it, but can see a long jump to lands or even a worn muzzle as well a pencil thin barrel here flexing maybe being the problem here. Knowing the jump to lands will tell you right off the bat if a flat base or boat tail bullet is going to be the key since boat tail bullets do not do well if they have a long jump when loading out of a mag. Muzzle/crown erosion is a quick fix in a lathe, and even simpler than that, just pulling the FS and cleaning the built up fouling on the muzzle can work wonders. As for barrel flex, if that is problem, then floating the barrel with a float hand guard system will solve that problem until the barrel heats up too much on it's own. Standard production 16" barrel should be good for around 3MOA with standard ammo, and if you get the reloads just right, should be able to shrink that down to about half or better for a 10 shot string. |
|
Bonzai!!
yes, details of the gun would be good - new, used... I have gleened that posters tend to pad their numbers. I have been getting similar results w/ my guns after zeroing. commented to one of the range Yodas that I should be doing better, and he replied that I was doing good for a combat rifle! (55 and SS109: eh, I do considerably better w/ 69 and 75 grain) ps. I had a rifle that would not zero. the barrel was loose |
|
Quoted:
Sounds like you know what you're doing, so I might suggest you have the weapon and/or ammo checked over. I get sub-moa @ 100 yards from a bench on all 4 of my AR's, all run-of-the-mill 1:9 16" barrel (ok, well two of them are for the kids when they come of age). 3 of them are Stag barrels, one is a bushmaster. I'm using .223 reloads with 24.5 grains of TAC and Hornady 55Gr FMJ's with Wolf SRM primers. That said, groups aren't so great with most factory ammo... haven't tried it in a while, but 1.5 to 3 MOA isn't unusual I think for standard M193. What bullets are you using on your reloads? I've only ever shot hornady 55gr FMJ's for plinking loads, from what I've heard from others in the reloading forum, Hornady 55Gr FMJ's are the best FMJ's on the market. I call bullshit on this. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like you know what you're doing, so I might suggest you have the weapon and/or ammo checked over. I get sub-moa @ 100 yards from a bench on all 4 of my AR's, all run-of-the-mill 1:9 16" barrel (ok, well two of them are for the kids when they come of age). 3 of them are Stag barrels, one is a bushmaster. I'm using .223 reloads with 24.5 grains of TAC and Hornady 55Gr FMJ's with Wolf SRM primers. That said, groups aren't so great with most factory ammo... haven't tried it in a while, but 1.5 to 3 MOA isn't unusual I think for standard M193. What bullets are you using on your reloads? I've only ever shot hornady 55gr FMJ's for plinking loads, from what I've heard from others in the reloading forum, Hornady 55Gr FMJ's are the best FMJ's on the market. I call bullshit on this. Why???? He never stated the shot string lengths, and could be that he is only talking 3 shot groups out of a cleaned barrel with only a single fouling shot, and maybe sledding at that. Myself, when it comes to AR's, Grouping to me means how well the barrel is going to do with 20 shots, since that it the number of shots in a single match string, with no time to clean between shots, only between the different strings. |
AR Sponsor