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Posted: 8/24/2009 2:39:36 PM EDT
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The last couple of times I have shot my M&P15A (M193)I have noticed the the brass is ejecting straight out or forward of ejection port. There is a small shiny spot on the back of the ejection port in front of the deflector. No marks on deflector so I guess the brass is hitting the back of the port and ejecting out and forward. Is this an extractor spring problem? |
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Quoted: Have you started shooting hotter ammo? First 1k was S&B M193 (3200fps feels kinda snappy) and no problem. Then I ran around 500 Canned Heat. 4-450 no problem then started throwing brass forward. Ran some more S&B M193 Saturday and doing the same thing. Extractor spring don't protrude past the O ring and looks a little short to me. I got a BCM spring that I'm going to compare to the original and install. Would a weak / wore out spring cause this? |
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Quoted: Change the spring when it is less than 10 and 1/16" in length. I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud. I don't care where the brass goes as long as it's running good like you said. I just want to know if there is something I need to do because of this change to unsure it keeps running good. ETA: I will check the spring length. Thanks for the help. |
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Change the spring when it is less than 10 and 1/16" in length. I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud. I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said. I just want to know if there is something I need to do because of this change to unsure it keeps running good. Touché |
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... I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud. I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said ... A proper ejection pattern can be used as a guage, and is an indication that the rifle IS "running good" ... or functioning well / close to optimal. Which is not the same thing as saying "If it works, it works" ... especially in the context of a "combat rifle" where reliability is critical. |
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... I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud. I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said ... A proper ejection pattern can be used as a guage, and is an indication that the rifle IS "running good" ... or functioning well / close to optimal. Which is not the same thing as saying "If it works, it works" ... especially in the context of a "combat rifle" where reliability is critical. So at a carbine class where every persons' gun ejects differently AND his or her rifle will probably malfunction once or twice, you're going to tell them that he should have paid more attention to how his gun was ejecting? 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ... I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud. I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said ... A proper ejection pattern can be used as a guage, and is an indication that the rifle IS "running good" ... or functioning well / close to optimal. Which is not the same thing as saying "If it works, it works" ... especially in the context of a "combat rifle" where reliability is critical. This was my thinking and what brought about the question. When my rifle ran all those rounds the same from brand new then something changes like whats happening with mine, I would just like to know why. I will check spring length and go with a heavier buffer to start. if that don't do it I'll get a FA carrier. Thanks for all responses. |
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... I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud. I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said ... A proper ejection pattern can be used as a guage, and is an indication that the rifle IS "running good" ... or functioning well / close to optimal. Which is not the same thing as saying "If it works, it works" ... especially in the context of a "combat rifle" where reliability is critical. So at a carbine class where every persons' gun ejects differently AND his or her rifle will probably malfunction once or twice, you're going to tell them that he should have paid more attention to how his gun was ejecting?
Yeah right, paying attention to something like that would be silly ... Because ejection issues and malfunctions are completely UNrelated - always. 
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I just took my new 16" middy build to the range and I noticed all the ejected shells had a deep scratch in them about in the middle of the case. I was also ejecting shorter than my other ar did and it was a bit foreward or straight out to the side. The gun also seemed to recoil a bit harder than it should have. Used PMC, Privi, and XM193. As we were picking up, I noticed the same wear mark you describe at the back of the ejection port and nothing on the shell deflector.
With it being a middy and having a m16 FA bcg I would think it would be undergassed if anything. I wonder if the upgraded ejector and extractor springs on the super duty bcg have anything to do with it. I must say though, the gun ran like a champ with no failures yet so I am a bit hesitant to mess with it...but I'm going to anyway. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted:
The last couple of times I have shot my M&P15A (M193)I have noticed the the brass is ejecting straight out or forward of ejection port. There is a small shiny spot on the back of the ejection port in front of the deflector. No marks on deflector so I guess the brass is hitting the back of the port and ejecting out and forward. Is this an extractor spring problem?
With different ammo's being used in a rifle (read not tuned for just one, and it only run), spent cases out the ejection port is the whole idea and not a set ejection path. If you are trying to turn your rig for one type of ammo, that is great, but don't think that ejection path will be the norm for all the ammo's being used if different types. 
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Quoted: Ejection pattern is not the real issue. My rifle has gone through a change in the last 150 - 200 rounds. I am just trying to insure trouble is not on the horizon.Quoted: The last couple of times I have shot my M&P15A (M193)I have noticed the the brass is ejecting straight out or forward of ejection port. There is a small shiny spot on the back of the ejection port in front of the deflector. No marks on deflector so I guess the brass is hitting the back of the port and ejecting out and forward. Is this an extractor spring problem? With different ammo's being used in a rifle (read not tuned for just one, and it only run), spent cases out the ejection port is the whole idea and not a set ejection path. If you are trying to turn your rig for one type of ammo, that is great, but don't think that ejection path will be the norm for all the ammo's being used if different types. |
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As the rifle is now, pull all the way back on the charging handle and confirm that the bolt face is stopping about 1/4" to 3/8" in front of the back of ejection port.
Could be that the tube void is a tad too long, and allowing the bolt to retract back past the back of port, causing the spent cases to tag the port lip there. If you find this to be the problem, then the option may be to turn the end of the receiver extension so it can be installed one more turn forward to resolve the problem. Or, maybe the new buffer with bumper is a tad longer than the old one, which would solve the problem as well. Also, when was the last time you check the ejector? Could be some brass flakes down the channel, causing it to bind up once in a while. |
Here is a pic where casings are striking. Looks like the back edge of ejection port and leading edge of deflector. A pic of the charging handle pulled back 100%. Bolt sticks past rear of ejection port 1/8"-3/16".  I measured the buffer spring and it is 10-7/8" relaxed. The buffer is 3-1/4" total end to end. |
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See my above post, and go resolve the problem by facing the end of the tube back so it will thread a turn or two more (and still index on the buffer retainer correctly with the butt stock indexed correctly as well) to resolve the ejection path problem.
If you have a lathe, it short work, if not, then a file only takes a little longer. It's not a buffer problem, but a face of bolt retracting back past the back of port during live cycle that is casing the spent cases to be danced off the back of the port at ejection from the action. |
Installed a BMC extractor spring and off to the range I go this morning. Fired 8 rounds and brass ejecting straight out with one still going a little forward. Not one mark on the deflector . Then I changed out my stock buffer with the new H2 buffer and spring and wow  . Shooting way softer than ever and all brass ejecting a little to the rear and striking the deflector just right. Happy days 
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Installed a BMC extractor spring and off to the range I go this morning. Fired 8 rounds and brass ejecting straight out with one still going a little forward. Not one mark on the deflector . Then I changed out my stock buffer with the new H2 buffer and spring and wow . Shooting way softer than ever and all brass ejecting a little to the rear and striking the deflector just right. Happy days just curious, did you use the red or the blue spring from tactical spring? |
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