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Posted: 12/13/2008 4:05:24 PM EDT
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My brother and I took his new AR out to test it. His first round, a Wolf 5.56, fired, but the extractor tore the rim off the cartride casing, leaving it jammed it in the weapon. I had to drive it out with a cleaning rod, even after letting it cool. (And it couldn't have been that hot, it was about 50 degrees ambient temperature, and it was the first round the weapon had fired.) We cleaned the chamber thoroughly with a brush and solvent, then tried it again, and had the same issue: rim torn from cartridge case, tightly wedged into the chamber. After clearing the jam, I put some of MY ammo, Winchester Q3131 into it, and it functioned fine, but I only had about 15 rounds. He took some more of his Wolf ammo, ran a lightly oiled rag over them, and then fired off about 15 rounds without any failure. After that, we fired about 10 more rounds of un-lubed Wolf, and they functioned fine, and the rims didn't seem to be stressed or bent.
Again, the weapon has under 40 rounds through it at this point. Is the torn rim common for Wolf ammunition? Should we just it shoot it with the chamber lubricated when shooting steel cased ammunition? What other things should we be investigating? Thanks in advance. |
| Wolf you used was probably steel cased. Always use good factory brass ammo for break in. Wolf comes later. I won't own a rifle that won't shoot Wolf, even though I don't shoot much of it. I hand cycle the rifle (unloaded) 500 times before I shoot a new one. It just helps everything break in better. I read that not long ago and it does work. |
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I should have said that initially, you're right: The Wolf ammo IS steel cased, sort of a grey color, not green lacquer coated.
Rifleshooter474: I, nor my brother, don't expect cheap, steel cased Wolf ammunition to be the equal to American-made, high quality ammunition. But, it isn't unreasonable to expect it to go bang every time, and function normally, but with reduced accuracy, or decreased, velocity, or with less consistency, or something like that. I don't think it's normal or expected to have the rim of the case torn off, leaving the cartridge casing in the chamber. If it IS a normal issue with Wolf (Which it hasn't been with any of my AKs in 7.62x39) 5.56 ammunition, then we won't shoot any of it. "Regular" jams, shortstroking, stovepipes, things on that order seem to be an unfortunate side effect of cheaper ammunition, whether it's Walmart bulk 22 ammo or anything else. This degree of stoppage, needing tools to resolve, in my view is beyond dismissing brusquely as being due to cheap, steel cases. Thanks for the suggestions so far. |
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Quoted:
With the rifle assembled, pull down on the charging handle while slamming the buttstock straight into the ground. Hard. On a hard surface. Don't be gentle. A word of advice; If you have a collapsible stock installed, fully collapse it before you attempt this. |
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Quoted:
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With the rifle assembled, pull down on the charging handle while slamming the buttstock straight into the ground. Hard. On a hard surface. Don't be gentle. A word of advice; If you have a collapsible stock installed, fully collapse it before you attempt this. Oh, yeah. That too. Though I did do this to a rifle with a Vltor stock and it held up to the punishment very well. I was amazed, really. |
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I'm not trying to be obnoxious; why would it matter what ammunition you use to break it in? Does shooting a few boxes of brass cased ammunition really alter the dimensions or finish of the chamber enough to make a difference between ripping rims off of cartridges, leaving the case stuck inside, and smooth, failure-free operation?
87GN: "Mortaring" the weapon is a fine idea, but in our instance, the rim was torn from the cartridge, so pulling on the charging handle just moves the bolt back and forth. That solution wouldn't have helped this time. |
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Quoted:
I'm not trying to be obnoxious; why would it matter what ammunition you use to break it in? Does shooting a few boxes of brass cased ammunition really alter the dimensions or finish of the chamber enough to make a difference between ripping rims off of cartridges, leaving the case stuck inside, and smooth, failure-free operation? This FTE situation with Wolf in a new AR happens quite frequently. If the weapon is given a chance to break in by shooting brass cased ammo, then the chances are greater that further on down the road, it will cycle better with it’s first encounter with Wolf ammo. New chamber surfaces can be rough, and any small imperfections in the chamber will grab a steel case as it expands and hold onto it harder than a brass case. The steel case expands during firing and doesn’t relax as freely as a softer brass case would. ETA: I might add that some rifles over time function better with Wolf ammo as time goes on. Some never reliably function with Wolf regardless of how much brass cased ammo is shot. Only time will tell. |
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QUIB: Thanks for that tip. Is it an unreasonable leap, then, to think about running some polishing compound through the chamber, whether Wolf ammunition is shot or not? It seems that small burrs or imperfections in the chamber could, if nothing else, produce stress risers even more ductile brass cases.
Off topic, and not meant to be a flame: How do other types of rifles get by with shooting steel cased ammunition? Is it just looser chamber dimensions? How loose is too loose to shoot brass ammunition through? |
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Guess I am lucky as a two pekkered goat, My Bushie M4 eats any ammo fed to it and always has. Yes I know that some of you have had bad issues with Wolf ammo and I believe you.
If my funds weren't limited I would definitely shoot the best brass ammo available and I do shoot some brass and reload. I don't have the answers to Wolf problems but if it gave me problems I wouldn't shoot the russian crap at all..... 
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Quoted:
QUIB: Thanks for that tip. Is it an unreasonable leap, then, to think about running some polishing compound through the chamber, whether Wolf ammunition is shot or not? It seems that small burrs or imperfections in the chamber could, if nothing else, produce stress risers even more ductile brass cases. Someone else might, but I won’t recommend polishing the chamber. I have no experience in that area, and don’t feel qualified to tell you how, or what to use to do it safely. |
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Quoted:
I should have said that initially, you're Regular" jams, shortstroking, stovepipes, things on that order seem to be an unfortunate side effect of cheaper ammunition, whether it's Walmart bulk 22 ammo or anything else. This degree of stoppage, needing tools to resolve, in my view is beyond dismissing brusquely as being due to cheap, steel cases. Thanks for the suggestions so far. Well it's your rifle not mine so if you think it's a good choice to use Wolf Ammo. and expect quality results. (meaning going bang) I wish you good luck. |
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OK I dont know who brought up Wolf but thats not what I am using. I was using 55gr Federal Lakecity ammo. The chamber was clean. The rifle upper is from MA Parts. And lastly the actual primer area of the bullet is getting wedged into the head of the bolt....It happened five times in a row. Is it an ejector / extractor problem? Springs?
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Quoted:
OK I dont know who brought up Wolf but thats not what I am using. I was using 55gr Federal Lakecity ammo. The chamber was clean. The rifle upper is from MA Parts. And lastly the actual primer area of the bullet is getting wedged into the head of the bolt....It happened five times in a row. Is it an ejector / extractor problem? Springs? The person who started this thread brought up they were using Wolf Ammo. 
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Answers right here..clicky :)
Seriously, run 200 rds brass cased ammo thru the gun and I bet your problem is fixed. Blackops_1. |
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87GN: In looking back over the thread, I think your idea of mortaring the weapon to clear a stuck cartridge was directed at Calypso428, not at my situation. I didn't mean to imply that you didn't pay attention. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and time.
Rifleshooter474: That was hilarious (referring to the poster upset about being accused of using Wolf ammunition). I wasn't trying to slam you for saying Wolf is sub-par ammo. I know it is. It's markedly cheaper for a reason, something has to give. I was just trying to say that I expect dud primers once in awhile, funny smelling powder, less accuracy, and things like that, just like cheap reloads have. That goes with the territory, but having the gun be down and needing to hammer things down the muzzle in order to fix it seems like a different issue than cheap ammo. My AK eats Wolf and Barnaul without issue; I think I've had one dead primer out of several thousand rounds, maybe one or two shortstroke or stovepipe jams. That's my frame of reference for cheap, low quality ammunition, and kind of expected the same out of an AR. Thanks again for the advice. |
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Quoted:
87GN: In looking back over the thread, I think your idea of mortaring the weapon to clear a stuck cartridge was directed at Calypso428, not at my situation. I didn't mean to imply that you didn't pay attention. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and time. Rifleshooter474: That was hilarious (referring to the poster upset about being accused of using Wolf ammunition). I wasn't trying to slam you for saying Wolf is sub-par ammo. I know it is. It's markedly cheaper for a reason, something has to give. I was just trying to say that I expect dud primers once in awhile, funny smelling powder, less accuracy, and things like that, just like cheap reloads have. That goes with the territory, but having the gun be down and needing to hammer things down the muzzle in order to fix it seems like a different issue than cheap ammo. My AK eats Wolf and Barnaul without issue; I think I've had one dead primer out of several thousand rounds, maybe one or two shortstroke or stovepipe jams. That's my frame of reference for cheap, low quality ammunition, and kind of expected the same out of an AR. Thanks again for the advice. We just want to get people shooting their ARs and not having a bunch of trouble.  I feel the Russians don't have any love for the USA, so it would not shock me to find out if they knew the Ammo. was going to the USA they might try to sabotage it. It has been known to happen.
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