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Posted: 9/2/2006 4:30:52 PM EDT
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I have an Armalite M15A4B. I trial fired about 30 rounds of EBR subsonic ammo with no problems. After my GEMTECH M4-96D suppressor was installed, the fisrt shot jammed the projectile about 1 inch into the barrel. How do I get it out? What is the best tool to use? |
One piece cleaning rod + hammer... IIRC... |
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Due to a lack of money, which means I can't take it to a Gunsmith. I went to HomeDepot and bought a 3/16" steel rod 36 inches long. A couple of good whacks with a hammer and out came the jammed projectile. It doesn't look like there is any damage, from the jammed projectile or my hammering. I will find out monday when I go back out. I am going to try some Q3131 first. Then I will try the subsonic without and with the suppressor. Let us pray, to something or somebody. |
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The problem was not the can, but the gunpowder not being ignited by the primer (guessing that you had the muzzle very downward angled). A few of the ammo suppliers are promoting that there ammo has no void filler, which produces less fouling in the can on the reduced loads, but in the case of a failure such as your due to the void in the case, Somehow I believe that I prefer the suppressor more fouled over a rifle completely out of action, and will just stick with using fillers (TP). P.S. Unless you are using bullets in the 69gr + range, just pick up a 22LR adapter and run subsonic 22LR ammo that is around $25 for 500 rounds. With the price of a single box of 223 subsonic being the same price, and hitting just a few pounds harder (read may or may not be able to get through that card board box someone is hiding behind @ 100 yards) the whole idea of running subsonic in a 223/55 GR is just too Hollywood for me since you get better results with a suppressed 10/22 instead, and for a hell of lot cheaper overall as well. |
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The problem was not the can, but the gunpowder not being ignited by the primer (guessing that you had the muzzle very downward angled). I do believe the problem was the can on the ARMALITE. I had the can on a BUSHMASTER with a fluted barrel, it worked fine. I moved it to a non-fluted barrel as recommended by the ammo manufactuer. ARMALITE AR-15's are too tight in specs. It won't shoot WOLF ammo very well, my BUSHY shoots everything I put in it. Also, I don't shoot at a downward angle, I shoot down range. A few of the ammo suppliers are promoting that there ammo has no void filler, which produces less fouling in the can on the reduced loads, but in the case of a failure such as your due to the void in the case, Somehow I believe that I prefer the suppressor more fouled over a rifle completely out of action, and will just stick with using fillers (TP). P.S. Unless you are using bullets in the 69gr + range, just pick up a 22LR adapter and run subsonic 22LR ammo that is around $25 for 500 rounds. With the price of a single box of 223 subsonic being the same price, and hitting just a few pounds harder (read may or may not be able to get through that card board box someone is hiding behind @ 100 yards) the whole idea of running subsonic in a 223/55 GR is just too Hollywood for me since you get better results with a suppressed 10/22 instead, and for a hell of lot cheaper overall as well. The Subsonic ammo is 63gr. The reason for a .223 can as opposed to a .22 can is, I can switch magazines to regular ammo in 2 seconds. I am then able to reach 500 yards at close to 3000fps, with reduced noise. Or I can also remove the can with a twist, and go bang. I fell being prepared for many different circumstances with one rifle is a plus. So, I am going to wait on the new tires for the truck, and get a 20 inch non-fluted BUSHMASTER upper, and have the can on that. That will solve the problem, and I will be prepared for most situations, silent and close in, or long range. |
Yes you could just swap ammo types, but keep in mind that not only would you have a POI shift requiring re-sighting, you would have to pick a barrel twist for one or the other for a specific round type to be accurate, and that is not even factoring in the fact the Sub sonic bullet needs to be of a softer design to be effective.
Could you bring us up to speed where we can buy or reload the magic ammo for the 5.56 Nato round that is going to be going 3000 FPS at 500 yards? As of now, M-193 ammo has a muzzle velocity of around 3250 FPS, and at 500 yards, has dropped down to around the 2200 FPS mark (read below the needed speed to fragment a standard m-193 bullet). Also, the secret to having the barrel shoot to the same POI with the can on the rifle, then removed would be nice as well
Last time I checked, a suppressed AR running subsonic ammo still made noise, and somehow you have missed the concept of a suppressed HP rifle. The supressed rig is effective not because it reduces the noise of the shot, but that it changes the perceived position of the shooter to that much closer to the target that he actually is stationed. The trick to this is that the rifle should make no noise (cycle action or the muzzle bang), with someone between the shooter and the target only picks up the bullet cracking close to his sound point and beyond as it moved down range. Even at close ranges with subsonic ammo, the rifle is far from Hollywood quite, and unless there is construction noise like someone running a nail gun in the same area, you going to be made real quick. Simply, if you purchased the suppressor to have fun with, more power to you, but in regards to the real world of tactics and survival, your concept is scarily lacking, and I would not rather not have someone fouled in to believing it as a plausible solve all solution. To sum it up, we here at the site are only more than happy to help you with any problem that you may run into with the weapon, but since we are still bound by the laws of physics, there is only some much we can offer, and sometimes it is just to point out the boundaries of the weapons envelope.  P.S. Since it slipped by me before now, Welcome to the site!!!!!!! |
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Last time I checked, a suppressed AR running subsonic ammo still made noise, and somehow you have missed the concept of a suppressed HP rifle. The supressed rig is effective not because it reduces the noise of the shot, but that it changes the perceived position of the shooter to that much closer to the target that he actually is stationed. The trick to this is that the rifle should make no noise (cycle action or the muzzle bang), with someone between the shooter and the target only picks up the bullet cracking close to his sound point and beyond as it moved down range. My Bushmaster with the suppressor and subsonic ammo only makes a click when fired. Just like the movies. Click, no other sound, just the hammer hitting the firing pin. Most subsonic ammo does not cycle the action. It just goes click, really it does. Except in the piece of crap ARMALITE I bought. As I stated earlier, suppressed for short range and quiet, suppressed or not for high power long range. One rifle two options, works great. Except in the piece of crap ARMALITE I bought. Regular ammo with the suppressor does the change perception of where the sound originates from, I have that option also. Also, I only said close to 3000fps at 500 yards, 2200fps is close enough compared to trying 500 yards with subsonic ammo. POI, well when shooting people, in self defense of course, I don't need 1 inch groups. If your rifle is sighted in for 250 yards, you should be able to estimate distance and wind, and adjust in your head. Or stay on the range where you have time to adjust things. When hunting live people, some call it war, you don't always have time to sit down and adjust your rifle. Aim, shoot, and kill, or die. I am still alive, with no ventalation holes. One rifle can do two things very well. You just have to know how to aim. Except in the piece of crap ARMALITE I bought. Thanks for welcoming me to the site, and offering help. I just need help in becoming my own gunsmith. Except in the piece of crap ARMALITE I bought. |
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In regards to the rifle not cycling with sub sonic ammo, there is a solution; it's called unique gunpowder with case filler packing. Granted you will get a bit of action noise/suppressor fouling, but sure in the hell beats using the rifle as a single shot, plus you loads are in the $.08 range per shot. Now lets see, I have 223 cases, unique powder, 55-grain SP bullets a couple feet from the press, and just happen to be in Denver for a little bit longer.
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