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Posted: 7/30/2006 5:34:49 PM EDT
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One of my AR’s has run perfect for the 8 months that I have owned it. I try and keep it clean and lubed correctly. Two weeks ago it started to FTF, the bolt would get hung up, and sometimes the bolt would pass over a mag and not chamber a round. I summed it up to the rifle being dirty and put it back in the case and shot a different rifle. When I got home I broke the rifle down and cleaned it. I took the rifle back out today and the same problems were there. I tried 15 different mags and a bunch of different ammo to no avail. When I got home I broke the rifle down and looked over it. One thing that stands out is the gas rings have “a lot” of play in them. My other bolts to not have this amount of play. Could this be the problem? Thanks for any help!!! |
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With just the bolt (ringed) and the carrier, seat the bolt into the carreir, then point the B/C bolt straight down. If the bolt does not fall out, the rings are fine. As for problems with the rifle, maybe time for a good chamber scrubbing and detailed cleaning, or time to check the allen screws holding the key down to confirm they are still tight (35 in lbs). |
I just did what you said and the bolt satyed in the carrier. So that rules out the rings. I checked the key and it is rock solid. I'll give it a very detailed cleaning tonight and take it out this week and see how it runs. Thanks for the pointers Dano. |
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If you have been shooting wolf ammo, then neither CLP nor copper solvent will dissolve the polyurethane or lacquer powderized fouling that can build up in the chamber and the barrel extension area. To remove such fouling, you are forced to either scrub it out with a good chamber brush, or in worst cases, the use of acetone to dissolve the fouling. Note: Acetone will burn threw plastic like a hot knife through soft butter. If/when you use solvents as hot as acetone, a none dripping dampened patch on a jig is the best plan of attack to clean the chamber, or in the case of the barrel extension lugs, the same but applied through the use of Q-tips. |
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Hoppes # 9 is a copper/ burnt gun powder/ lead solvent, but will not dissolve polyurethane (the powderized fouling from the wolf cases). As stated, either scrub it out with a chamber brush, or use a solvent hot enough to dissolve it if needed. Myself, I have never had to resort to using acetone in the chambers, and this is coming from a guy that will burn Wolf ammo by the case at a time through the auto's. (With evil grin looking at few cases of wolf ammo over in the corner) Sometimes you just happen to have a few of C mags, and the area just needs to be sprayed, over and over again!!!!!!!!!!  |
| More stringent ring test - Install bolt and cam pin in carrier, pull bolt out until stopped by cam pin, stand assembly on the table on the bolt face. If the tension in the gas rings will hold the weight of the carrier from sliding down the bolt, then your gas rings are right. The other test is mentioned alot on here, but IME can at times be a little too loose of a standard. Just my $0.02. |
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They are an alien experiment! When I was an E-5 I consistently drew and shot a particular M16A1 that had no gas rings on the bolt. Told the company armorer at the first turn in, he said it was no big deal. Having been fed all the usual crap about gas rings, I was amazed it worked at all. But he was right. Shot over 1K rounds with it in the space of a year, even qualified with it that year. Never a hiccup. When they replaced the rings, it still ran fine. It amazed because of all the bullshit I had been told about never having the gas rings aligned. Gas rings are overrated. Might as hang a dreamcatcher off the front sight as worry about the gas rings IMO. |
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If you don't believe me just try it. The weapon willl still cycle just fine. Some gas piston designs like the HK416 and POF 416 have eliminated the rings altogether. Yet the bolt group still works fine  .Sure, sure I know, I thought the same thing before I shot without rings. I wouldn't have believed it either.  Look Ma, no gas rings! |
I'm not arguing with you there, what I'm saying is the function of the gas rings on the bolt are not critical to operation of the DI system. The system will function without them (Unlike piston rings on a car engine). It's just like blowback pistol caliber ARs don't neet them. They are really an "assist" feature, one that has proved to be of marginal value over the years. Gas rings can certainly stop a system from functioning if they get bent or damaged and impede smooth motion of the bolt in the BC. There are so many myths associated with the gas rings. The one that was fed to us in the Army, and I see it perpetuated here, was that you should stagger your gas ring gaps for correct function. When I was XO of a rifle company(many years ago) and had time to kill after running some ranges for the battalion, I tested this theory after mindlessly following the instruction for about 5 years. I staggered the gas rings, then shot 2 full magazines of 30 rounds of M855 ball using an issue M16A2. Oee magazine on semi, the other in burst mode. I then field stripped the weapon only to find that the gas rings had promptly re-aligned themselves. That's all I needed to see. I stopped forever the nonsense of staggering the gas rings becasue it is simply hogwash that has been perpetuated for decades, and still goes on here on this board and all over the internet. Unless you plan to stop and do it after every couple of mags, it is a useless practice. And even then there is really NO evidence it really has any beneficial effect at all. |
Just keep it sociable and you guys can discuss the whole gas ring thing till the cows come home. Myself, the best I have had rifle run is with two gas rings, and have heard of others being able to do it with 1 gas ring (helps to use hot ammo like M-193 and worn out springs). Now since DR has the chance to acclimate with rifles that were, shall we say, very well broken in with round counts well past the “We should have destroyed these things long ago mark but can’t since the CO is a cheap accounting bastard and won’t req new rifles”, having a loose rifle run without any gas rings with a worn out springs would not be out of the question. P.S. When the recruiter is selling on service life by saying, "You will be issued a new M-16 rifle", he just means that the rifle will be new to you.  |
Well this was in the early and mid 1980s, so let's hope some of those have been retired. |
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