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7/26/2017 10:25:15 PM EDT
Hi guys,

I'm working on my first build-from-scratch ar15 (second ar15) :)

This is for 3-gun, and want to keep overall weight as low as possible, as well as having quick response time and low recoil, but without sacrificing reliability.

I splurged on the Rubber City Arms (RCA) titanium BCG, which is only 7.8 oz.
To avoid over-gassing, I also picked up a Master of Arms titanium adjustable gas block to go with it.
I have a 16" Faxon Pencil barrel.

Now, I'm trying to figure out what would be the best choice for buffer / recoil spring.

I know that if I didn't have an adjustable gas block, then I would have to compensate for the low mass BCG by increasing the buffer weight...but that's not my plan.
My understanding is that if I appropriately reduce the gas pressure, then the fact that my BCG is lighter means my buffer can also be lighter.
Am I right in my thinking here?  If so, what weight of buffer / spring would be appropriate?

Thinking about this super light weight one:
https://taccom3g.com/product/carbine-recoil-system/#reviews

A lot of people have talked about the JP Silent Capture buffer system...and I'd probably have to also get the set of 5-springs so I could choose a weaker spring to go with my light BCG.
However, this isn't cheap, and my understanding is that it's not lighter than a milspec buffer assembly.  I'm thinking that it might be possible to save a lot of weight here, while also saving money, to get something lighter that works with the BCG.  Thoughts?

I am also interested in the Tubb flat wire buffer springs...but not sure if they would work with a low mass BCG.

And tips would be appreciated, especially if it saves me from buying the wrong stuff :D
7/26/2017 11:02:13 PM EDT
[#1]
The JP Silent Capture buffer system has never worked for me.  Not to say they are bad, they just require too much modification to the rifle.

I've found the best combination to get proper 4:00 ejection with that bolt carrier is a Sprinco "Blue" spring (No affiliation) and a Spikes T1 buffer.

You may also find that dialing down your gas block a bit is in order.
7/27/2017 4:26:30 AM EDT
[#2]
I have the Taccom system with their two piece polymer buffer and their reduced strength spring.  With your adjustable gas block and titanium BCG, you should be able to tune the gas to achieve your goals.  I have the Faxon Gunner BCG (similar weight as yours) and the SLR Sentry 6 adjustable gas block and have tuned it to operate very optimally.  No issues!

ETA: Not that you asked for this, but I wrote up my experience in tuning my gas block.  Thought it could be helpful to you.
7/28/2017 9:31:09 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote History
Quoted:
I have the Taccom system with their two piece polymer buffer and their reduced strength spring.  With your adjustable gas block and titanium BCG, you should be able to tune the gas to achieve your goals.  I have the Faxon Gunner BCG (similar weight as yours) and the SLR Sentry 6 adjustable gas block and have tuned it to operate very optimally.  No issues!

ETA: Not that you asked for this, but I wrote up my experience in tuning my gas block.  Thought it could be helpful to you.
View Quote
Agreed. Since OP has an adjustable gas system, the sky is the limit in terms of reducing weight.

A "normal" buffer and spring may be the way to go to start, or at least have them on standby just in case the Taccom system is too light and you are having trouble with consistent extraction and ejection.
8/4/2017 7:41:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Im running a VLtor A5 with a Tubbs CS flarwire spring. It privides smoother, more reliable action. Their buffers are proprietory but they offer a selection and you can remove weights inside if you really want to be radical.
8/4/2017 8:07:55 PM EDT
[#5]
One of the most overlooked aspects of the AR15's operating system is the role the buffer plays.

AR15s are gassed hard and undersprung since the design was engineered around a small, fast-burning IMR stick powder originally that only needed a lightweight spring guide (Edgewater buffer).  Once the Army Ordnance tried to sabotage the design with ball propellant, a heavier buffer was seen as a way to address this, and the buffer we all know was adopted on the XM16E1/Colt 603/M16A1 to act as a rate reducer to get the gun back to its design envelope of between 650-850rpm.

You need impact and rebound from the bumper on the tail end of the buffer to reverse inertia enough to have sufficient cumulative spring power and inertia mass to strip a fresh cartridge from a fully-loaded magazine, drive it up the ramp, chamber it, and lock the bolt.

A lot of AR15s are on the edge in this regard when looking just at spring rate, so when you dial down your gas with a low mass system, you paint yourself into a narrow window of reliable operation that may be perfect for the temperature conditions you adjusted the system in, but not enough on match day with even a 10° F drop.

This is why military guns are gassed so hard, otherwise they would never pass the Arctic testing regimen up at Grealey in AK.

When you now take a lightweight carrier that violates the 3/1 "rule" Stoner and Sullivan used for carrier/bolt mass, you have less inertia to work with, especially with the standard action spring, which has a lot of variability to it and drag within the RET.

This is why JP made the SCS, to provide a more constant spring rate with different spring and buffer weight options.  You need to get sufficient kiss of the bumper at full rearward carrier travel in order to get the required inertia to cycle the action in the forward momentum stage of the cycle of operations.

You can lose control of your cycle rate also and have excessive kiss, with carrier-over-base malfs because you now are beating the mag spring's ability to life the cartridge stack.

Things start to get circular away from your control as you attempt to fix one problem with the next band aid, and may find yourself in a position where you are happy to just be done with it during a rare string of fire where it functioned, but malfunction is around the corner.

To really diagnose your cyclic performance, high speed video is very helpful and an optimally-timed AR15 is a beautiful rifle to run through string after string of fire on a shot timer.  Modern smart phone cameras at Gen 6 may be helpful in acting as a high speed camera if you have one.
8/8/2017 3:09:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote History
Quoted:
One of the most overlooked aspects of the AR15's operating system is the role the buffer plays.

AR15s are gassed hard and undersprung since the design was engineered around a small, fast-burning IMR stick powder originally that only needed a lightweight spring guide (Edgewater buffer).  Once the Army Ordnance tried to sabotage the design with ball propellant, a heavier buffer was seen as a way to address this, and the buffer we all know was adopted on the XM16E1/Colt 603/M16A1 to act as a rate reducer to get the gun back to its design envelope of between 650-850rpm.

You need impact and rebound from the bumper on the tail end of the buffer to reverse inertia enough to have sufficient cumulative spring power and inertia mass to strip a fresh cartridge from a fully-loaded magazine, drive it up the ramp, chamber it, and lock the bolt.

A lot of AR15s are on the edge in this regard when looking just at spring rate, so when you dial down your gas with a low mass system, you paint yourself into a narrow window of reliable operation that may be perfect for the temperature conditions you adjusted the system in, but not enough on match day with even a 10° F drop.

This is why military guns are gassed so hard, otherwise they would never pass the Arctic testing regimen up at Grealey in AK.

When you now take a lightweight carrier that violates the 3/1 "rule" Stoner and Sullivan used for carrier/bolt mass, you have less inertia to work with, especially with the standard action spring, which has a lot of variability to it and drag within the RET.

This is why JP made the SCS, to provide a more constant spring rate with different spring and buffer weight options.  You need to get sufficient kiss of the bumper at full rearward carrier travel in order to get the required inertia to cycle the action in the forward momentum stage of the cycle of operations.

You can lose control of your cycle rate also and have excessive kiss, with carrier-over-base malfs because you now are beating the mag spring's ability to life the cartridge stack.

Things start to get circular away from your control as you attempt to fix one problem with the next band aid, and may find yourself in a position where you are happy to just be done with it during a rare string of fire where it functioned, but malfunction is around the corner.

To really diagnose your cyclic performance, high speed video is very helpful and an optimally-timed AR15 is a beautiful rifle to run through string after string of fire on a shot timer.  Modern smart phone cameras at Gen 6 may be helpful in acting as a high speed camera if you have one.
View Quote
That's a lot of good information. A lot of gamers say their LMOS guns are running flawless with minimal cleaning and under lots of conditions as they fly around the country for matches.  It looks like it might be possible to do LMOS right. They're not having to worry about FA. Thoughts?
8/8/2017 7:51:52 AM EDT
[#7]
call me against the grain, but I would start with a mil spec carbine spring (basic one) and a carbine and an H buffer to play with. 99.9% of the time that's all that's needed. Deviation from that can be fun, and benefit some people, but most of the time basic mil-spec  parts will DO MORE than adequate. If you play around with that spring and combo of buffers and you're STILL have issues, THEN play with other springs and weights.
8/30/2017 5:25:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Assembled 6 rifles all jp silent captured spring,not a single problem
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