Is Staking Gas Keys That Big Of A Job Really? Center Punch And A Hammer OK?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is Staking Gas Keys That Big Of A Job Really? Center Punch And A Hammer OK?

Posted: 6/29/2017 8:27:31 PM EDT

Ok, I have a BCG that the gas keys worked out on. Before sending it back I'd just as soon repair it myself. Buddy of mine has this happen, and I think just used a chisel.
Would a center punch, BCG on a 2X4 or something work fine? Any advice on how to get it staked properly at home?
Only reason I ask is because I managed to Google it and read of people going through all kinds of trouble including using a vice to accompany this task, and some people saying that the screws were one time use only, therefore couldn't be tightened and restaked. This seems like horsecrap to me, as I've seen it done and work fine.
Thoughts?

Posted: 6/29/2017 8:58:59 PM EDT

[#1]

Here is a diagram of the field staking method....

When you're finished it should look like this....

And as to the screws being a "one time use only", I tend to agree with that.

Posted: 6/29/2017 9:31:19 PM EDT

[#2]

You can use an auto punch.

Simple. Doesn't require over-thinking.

Posted: 7/13/2017 8:53:50 PM EDT

[#3]

Staking is an archaic procedure that is not necessary with high quality threadlockers and properly torqued screws. There is not a single component on a General Electric turbofan that is staked and there should not one on a modern AR(15/10) either. Phase 5 and Young Manufacturing are two companies that don't stake and provide an explanation on their respective websites. Hope this helps you decide to not stake your gas key.
Cheers

Posted: 7/13/2017 10:29:29 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Staking is an archaic procedure that is not necessary with high quality threadlockers and properly torqued screws. There is not a single component on a General Electric turbofan that is staked and there should not one on a modern AR(15/10) either. Phase 5 and Young Manufacturing are two companies that don't stake and provide an explanation on their respective websites. Hope this helps you decide to not stake your gas key.
Cheers

View Quote

And that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard!

If your AR goes into harms way it must be staked!

I've personally had a carrier key come loose while shooting and it turns the weapon into a manually operated repeater.

It was on an early J.P. Enterprises Grade III Rifle built by John Paul, I can guarantee it was correctly torqued.

Now J.P. Enterprises stakes their carrier keys.

There is a damn good reason that the TDP REQUIRES staking!

Range toys don't require staking, those of us who might need it in a life and death situation need staked carrier keys.

The only carrier key that wouldn't require staking is the one on an M231 firing port weapon and that's because of the method used to secure the screws on it.

Posted: 7/13/2017 10:39:26 PM EDT

[#5]

I have 2 BCG,s I've assembled.
I'm about to fall asleep, so no pics. But as long as you punch some metal, or "Flow" some metal into the bolt, it won't back out.

Posted: 7/13/2017 10:43:39 PM EDT

[#6]

You can do it a lot of different ways.

The correct way is to guy the tool from michiguns

It's cheap insurance and I've used it on several ARs over the years.

Posted: 7/13/2017 10:58:49 PM EDT

[#7]

I like to use a wide bladed flat head screwdriver. Here is my archived thread on fixing a loose gas key.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/697684_How_to_fix_a_loose_gas_key___with_pictures.html

Posted: 7/14/2017 12:02:24 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

And that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard!

If your AR goes into harms way it must be staked!

I've personally had a carrier key come loose while shooting and it turns the weapon into a manually operated repeater.

It was on an early J.P. Enterprises Grade III Rifle built by John Paul, I can guarantee it was correctly torqued.

Now J.P. Enterprises stakes their carrier keys.

There is a damn good reason that the TDP REQUIRES staking!

Range toys don't require staking, those of us who might need it in a life and death situation need staked carrier keys.

The only carrier key that wouldn't require staking is the one on an M231 firing port weapon and that's because of the method used to secure the screws on it.

View Quote

You don't think that a good thread locker would hold? Ever heard of one done that way and failed? Just wondering?

Posted: 7/14/2017 12:21:26 AM EDT

[#9]

The problem is that Loctite Rec (271) fails at around 300 degrees. Loctite 2620 is good to 650 degrees +. BUT, what happens if a screw shears and you need to remove it.

Plus Loctite 2620 is damn expensive.

Posted: 7/14/2017 1:14:19 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
The problem is that Loctite Rec (271) fails at around 300 degrees. Loctite 2620 is good to 650 degrees +. BUT, what happens if a screw shears and you need to remove it.

Plus Loctite 2620 is damn expensive.

View Quote

Is there a procedure for un-bonding it? Then, easy-out. Same as a staked bolt. No?

On the jet engines, they may not be staked, but I'll bet there's a lot of safety wired fasteners.

Posted: 7/14/2017 1:50:23 AM EDT

[#11]

Simple is best.

Posted: 7/14/2017 2:47:44 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here is a diagram of the field staking method....

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/Postings%20photos/Bolt%20Carriers/85c19690ba958fcd3d5ffca4602ebba9.jpg

When you're finished it should look like this....

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/Postings%20photos/Bolt%20Carriers/511aadfc3413b79ab6c397f1d650ea37.jpg

And as to the screws being a "one time use only", I tend to agree with that.

View Quote

Almost all screws/bolts are rated for one time use.

Posted: 7/14/2017 2:52:06 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

You don't think that a good thread locker would hold? Ever heard of one done that way and failed? Just wondering?

View Quote

Thread lockers will not take the heat of a gas key without being compromised.

Posted: 7/14/2017 3:43:34 AM EDT

[#14]

Center punch and a hammer will work just fine. This is how all of them were done until Colt wanted to automate that step in manufacturing instead of having someone stake them by hand.

It really takes very little to keep the screws from turning.

Posted: 7/14/2017 8:52:12 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Center punch and a hammer will work just fine. This is how all of them were done until Colt wanted to automate that step in manufacturing instead of having someone stake them by hand.

It really takes very little to keep the screws from turning.

View Quote

THIS ^^^^

Posted: 7/14/2017 10:10:02 AM EDT

[#16]

I'm such an AR nerd that I bought the staking tool.

Posted: 7/14/2017 12:35:05 PM EDT

[#17]

If there has ever been a group of people that can take the simple and make it complicated, its AR owners!

Posted: 7/14/2017 3:12:16 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
If there has ever been a group of people that can take the simple and make it complicated, its AR owners!

View Quote

Amen

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is Staking Gas Keys That Big Of A Job Really? Center Punch And A Hammer OK?

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