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Posted: 7/31/2016 8:51:09 AM EDT
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hi all,
where can i find/buy a CNC/CAD program to make mil-spec lowers. looking to work with a block of aluminum as well as 80% lowers. thx eddie |
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I've only been dabbling with a little CNC machine for a while so I'm no expert by any means. Each machine is different. You'll need the code set up for your machine. Feed rate, plunge rate, depth of cut, step-over, origins, and tool size are set for the machine/tool combo that is running. I did my trigger pocket program by starting with a 3d model of the pocket then running it through a program to get the gcode. I do slow feed rates with small depth of cut and step-over to get it to work on my little CNC mill. A bigger more solid mill will do the work much faster than I can do on mine. CHRIS |
| Ghost Gunner isn't designed for commercial operation. Anything commercial is going to weight over 2000lbs for the needed stiffness to make heavy and fast cuts to get parts out with the least amount of time possible. Ghost Gunner is designed for individuals and their friends but nothing more. |
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thx so far. i have a GG machine now. looking to upgrade. i have all my paperwork in order already, filed approved etc etc. Not being an asshole at all, but I just have to wonder, with all of the good manufactures out there right now, offering good prices on uppers and lowers, why are you wanting to get into this business? It is going to cost a lot of money and it will take a long time to recover your costs. My partner and I, who only do suppressors, have over 2 million dollars invested in machines and tooling and still on the gun side barely break even. |
| i now use Autodesk Inventor HSM but there are plenty of other tools. Autodesk has Fusion but i don't want to be stuck in annual agreements and cloud services. There are plenty of other programs out there though, you should check out some machinist forums. I think a lot of people use BobCad too. |
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Not being an asshole at all, but I just have to wonder, with all of the good manufactures out there right now, offering good prices on uppers and lowers, why are you wanting to get into this business? It is going to cost a lot of money and it will take a long time to recover your costs. My partner and I, who only do suppressors, have over 2 million dollars invested in machines and tooling and still on the gun side barely break even. Quoted:
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thx so far. i have a GG machine now. looking to upgrade. i have all my paperwork in order already, filed approved etc etc. Not being an asshole at all, but I just have to wonder, with all of the good manufactures out there right now, offering good prices on uppers and lowers, why are you wanting to get into this business? It is going to cost a lot of money and it will take a long time to recover your costs. My partner and I, who only do suppressors, have over 2 million dollars invested in machines and tooling and still on the gun side barely break even. THIS ^^^ Dave is dead on with his comment. Unless you plan on producing a high end billet lower (think AXTS A-DAC) that no one else offers anything comparable you aren't going to break even. And a Ghost Gunner isn't going to begin to come close to what you are going to need, probably a minimum of a quarter of a million dollar CNC. |
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Ghost Gunner isn't designed for commercial operation. Anything commercial is going to weight over 2000lbs for the needed stiffness to make heavy and fast cuts to get parts out with the least amount of time possible. Ghost Gunner is designed for individuals and their friends but nothing more. Add another zero to that weight, and then some. I also agree with what Dave said. There's no good way to manufacture these without paying way to much. I'm a programmer and engineer at an aerospace and defense place. We have mazak horizontals, a palletech, any and all tooling I could want or need, ITAR all taken care of, just would need manufacturer licenses. It would be cost prohibitive for us to get into making lowers... |
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i understand it being cost prohibitive......
not trying to be an asshole but can we get back on track? where can i get a basic program? i would like to look at it if nothing else. i understand it may be very specific to a machine and tooling. but can i get a look anyway? just wanting to see it for myself. thx eddie |
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i now use Autodesk Inventor HSM but there are plenty of other tools. Autodesk has Fusion but i don't want to be stuck in annual agreements and cloud services. There are plenty of other programs out there though, you should check out some machinist forums. I think a lot of people use BobCad too. thx. this is helpful. i will go see what i can dig up on a machinist forum..... |
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So you are trying to become a full blown manufacture for resale? If you search the web you can find the blue prints from the 70's which can get you started. Where are you located? Are you going to run your operation with a GG machine? thx. i will start there. NY (i know , i know. but i have all the paperwork filed, approved, and in hand....07/sot etc etc. FUAC!) no, i am not running commercial operation on a gg. i got one cause it was local, priced well, and i thought it would be fun to play with. currently i am a few weeks away from my variance being approved. i am taking advantage of the big manufacturers great prices as noted above......i hope to have those lowers in hand in 2-3 months. thx |
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Do you have an ITAR license? Read the NEW interpretation of who the State department defines as falling under their purview.
It's different than before: https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/07/25/ddtc-issues-guidance-on-itar-registration/ It's NOT about shipping Defense Articles overseas now. It's about physically modifying parts that could be. What this appears to do is regulate the average gunsmiths typical operations - threading barrels, getting locking lugs trued up, stoning or otherwise altering triggers, etc. It even brings into question drilling a stock for sling swivel studs. How a 80% falls under this doesn't seem to be addressed but it's the ATF who states its "not a gun part" for their regulatory purposes. Under ITAR no such distinction is made. Parts is parts. |
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i understand it being cost prohibitive...... not trying to be an asshole but can we get back on track? where can i get a basic program? i would like to look at it if nothing else. i understand it may be very specific to a machine and tooling. but can i get a look anyway? just wanting to see it for myself. thx eddie Eddie, We are on track, when someone starts asking to "Just see" proprietary software, which is what the CNC programs for doing lowers is, people like myself wonder what is going on. My Partner and I would not "just let you see" our programs for doing can's. I just spent over an hour on the phone with my partner this morning and he had to purchase a new machine for one specific job he got the contract for, the machine was over a million dollars and he figure he would have to spend about 3/4 of a million to have a program wrote for that one job. So asking those questions about what you are trying to accomplish is on track. |
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Eddie, We are on track, when someone starts asking to "Just see" proprietary software, which is what the CNC programs for doing lowers is, people like myself wonder what is going on. My Partner and I would not "just let you see" our programs for doing can's. I just spent over an hour on the phone with my partner this morning and he had to purchase a new machine for one specific job he got the contract for, the machine was over a million dollars and he figure he would have to spend about 3/4 of a million to have a program wrote for that one job. So asking those questions about what you are trying to accomplish is on track. $750,000 for a program? I'll do it for $749,000. Unless it's 5 axis. 
To the OP, if you "just want to look" I could shit some G code out of FeatureCAM for you, but if you load it into a machine and crash it that's your problem. Like the first post said, there are a lot of variables and machine brand specific codes aren't even the first one. How is your work being held? How will you machine the sides you can't get at in the first operation? How will you transfer work offsets from one setup to another? What kind of tooling do you have or are you willing to buy? Etc etc. |
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$750,000 for a program? I'll do it for $749,000. Unless it's 5 axis.
Yup, I about sh*t my pants when he told me, I am glad it is not on our side of business for gun parts, this is a specific part, for a really special client and he is thrilled to have nailed the contract, but man, talk about a lot of money, just to get a contract! 
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Yup, I about sh*t my pants when he told me, I am glad it is not on our side of business for gun parts, this is a specific part, for a really special client and he is thrilled to have nailed the contract, but man, talk about a lot of money, just to get a contract!
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$750,000 for a program? I'll do it for $749,000. Unless it's 5 axis.
Yup, I about sh*t my pants when he told me, I am glad it is not on our side of business for gun parts, this is a specific part, for a really special client and he is thrilled to have nailed the contract, but man, talk about a lot of money, just to get a contract!
That's insane! That equates to about 4 hours of my engineering and programming time. I think you're getting taken a bit for the programming. |
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i understand it being cost prohibitive...... not trying to be an asshole but can we get back on track? where can i get a basic program? i would like to look at it if nothing else. i understand it may be very specific to a machine and tooling. but can i get a look anyway? just wanting to see it for myself. thx eddie I could program a lower out of billet in about a day. The problem is it's all tooling and machine specific. My 4 axis mazak horizontal post will look different from my 3 axis hurco post, will look different again from my 5 axis integrex post. |
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That's insane! That equates to about 4 hours of my engineering and programming time. I think you're getting taken a bit for the programming. Quoted:
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$750,000 for a program? I'll do it for $749,000. Unless it's 5 axis.
Yup, I about sh*t my pants when he told me, I am glad it is not on our side of business for gun parts, this is a specific part, for a really special client and he is thrilled to have nailed the contract, but man, talk about a lot of money, just to get a contract!
That's insane! That equates to about 4 hours of my engineering and programming time. I think you're getting taken a bit for the programming. I don't think so, I don't have the details on what his contract is, but I know him quite well and he would not spend the money, if it was not needed to secure the contract, he is a very smart guy and is one of the largest machine shops in the country, his shop has over 50 machines in it, so I am pretty sure he knows what he is doing, my Dad worked for him for over ten years, so I have known him quite a long time. Like I said, I don't know what the contract is for, but pretty sure it is an important one, he has been trying to secure it for over 2 years now. By the way, I am not getting taken for anything, I don't have anything to do with that part of his business, him and I do gun parts, but I do not participate in any of his other ventures. |
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I could program a lower out of billet in about a day. The problem is it's all tooling and machine specific. My 4 axis mazak horizontal post will look different from my 3 axis hurco post, will look different again from my 5 axis integrex post. okay. interesting. that is what i needed. thanks. i guess it i just did not realize it was so machine specific...... but if gordo81 could do it in a day that makes me feel a bit better....at least it seems a bit more realistic. and not 6 figures.....:) yes, i have paid my itar........no worries here...... |
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okay. interesting. that is what i needed. thanks. i guess it i just did not realize it was so machine specific...... but if gordo81 could do it in a day that makes me feel a bit better....at least it seems a bit more realistic. and not 6 figures.....:) yes, i have paid my itar........no worries here...... Quoted:
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I could program a lower out of billet in about a day. The problem is it's all tooling and machine specific. My 4 axis mazak horizontal post will look different from my 3 axis hurco post, will look different again from my 5 axis integrex post. okay. interesting. that is what i needed. thanks. i guess it i just did not realize it was so machine specific...... but if gordo81 could do it in a day that makes me feel a bit better....at least it seems a bit more realistic. and not 6 figures.....:) yes, i have paid my itar........no worries here...... It would probably be in the 5 figures range for a full on program, including a fixture program. Including engineering support to make sure tool path is optimized. The programming part is the simple part. Then you're looking at another 1-2k in tooling... |
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I thought I had a handle on what you're trying to do, but for the slow among us like me, could you explain your end goal?
You said you've got a variance (for what?), and you paid up on ITAR. Are you going to manufacture lowers for resale? Do you have CNC machines lined up but no programmer? Are you renting time on a CNC machine at another shop to make lowers? Not quite sure where you're trying to go with all of this. Do you have plans for anodizing or coating the lowers? |
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It would probably be in the 5 figures range for a full on program, including a fixture program. Including engineering support to make sure tool path is optimized. The programming part is the simple part. Then you're looking at another 1-2k in tooling... Quoted:
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I could program a lower out of billet in about a day. The problem is it's all tooling and machine specific. My 4 axis mazak horizontal post will look different from my 3 axis hurco post, will look different again from my 5 axis integrex post. okay. interesting. that is what i needed. thanks. i guess it i just did not realize it was so machine specific...... but if gordo81 could do it in a day that makes me feel a bit better....at least it seems a bit more realistic. and not 6 figures.....:) yes, i have paid my itar........no worries here...... It would probably be in the 5 figures range for a full on program, including a fixture program. Including engineering support to make sure tool path is optimized. The programming part is the simple part. Then you're looking at another 1-2k in tooling... What are you basing that 5 figure number on? Do you do contract machine tool programming? If getting someone set up to run billet lowers on their machine tool, turn key, is a 5 figure project, I need to get into doing that on the side. |
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