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Posted: 6/17/2016 7:54:36 PM EDT
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My home build groups poorly (4 inches or so) with a number of scopes. In an effort to tighten things up I pulled the barrel and tossed a skim of JBweld on the extension. I don't know if it will help but I figure to give it a shot.
I have a 16 inch SAA stainless barrel in a AP upper with a Troy FF rail/tube. It should do better than the 4 inch groups with my hand loads (I am successful with my other rifles so this one should be no different). I have removed and re-torqued the barrel twice, loaded using a number of different recipes and used a number of different bullets with no real improvement. It will be a bit before I can get back to the range to check the results but I figured I could ask if anyone had tried it and what results they got. I would like to see 2 inch groups at 100 yards. I am not looking for a bench gun. |
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This would have been the better choice to true the receiver face. Then measure the opening and barrel extensions, add a shim to make it tight, and torque as you normally would. Also the type of ammo you're using matters. It doesn't matter if you're using bench rest quality parts if you feed it a diet of crap ammo. That said most ammo should provide you 2MOA groups. |
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Quoted:
This would have been the better choice to true the receiver face. Then measure the opening and barrel extensions, add a shim to make it tight, and torque as you normally would. Also the type of ammo you're using matters. It doesn't matter if you're using bench rest quality parts if you feed it a diet of crap ammo. That said most ammo should provide you 2MOA groups. I handload as I mentioned and have no problem getting sub MOA groups from all my other rifles. Trust me crap AE ammo is HORRIBLE. I have never fed it Tula. LOL |
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Quoted: I handload as I mentioned and have no problem getting sub MOA groups from all my other rifles. Trust me crap AE ammo is HORRIBLE. I have never fed it Tula. LOL Quoted: Quoted: This would have been the better choice to true the receiver face. Then measure the opening and barrel extensions, add a shim to make it tight, and torque as you normally would. Also the type of ammo you're using matters. It doesn't matter if you're using bench rest quality parts if you feed it a diet of crap ammo. That said most ammo should provide you 2MOA groups. I handload as I mentioned and have no problem getting sub MOA groups from all my other rifles. Trust me crap AE ammo is HORRIBLE. I have never fed it Tula. LOL Totally glazed over the handloading part. I'm exhausted and tired right now....fuck ever living in a house without AC or at least one that's designed to have air flow through it with the windows open so central air isn't a requirement not to cook inside it. |
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1. Test with Federal Match ammo, bullet weight matched to your barrel twist. 2. Check the method with which you torque your scope mounts to your upper receiver (don't span from the receiver to the handguard) and the torque on the scope rings as well. Mounts should be 30 inch-lbs., and rings should be 20 inch-lbs. Do not guess. Do not use a torque wrench that measure in foot-lbs. Buy a quality inch-lb. torque wrench if you don't have one. I hope you didn't mix the JB Weld before using it. First, you'll never get that barrel off. Second, bedding is never a good thing. If your receiver face is not trued, then true it. And if it's decently square, there is no way that adding material between it and the barrel extension will improve things more than a fraction of an MOA. You might reduce some tendency towards stringing, but overall precision won't be significantly improved. |
If so, then toss the setup and get a good quality barrel and start over.
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Since the JB weld is already applied, might as well see if it makes any difference before doing anything else. I've bedded with loktite but not JBweld.
I like shimming with thin SS sheet better than bedding. Easier to go backwards if desired. I also lap the receiver first. |
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Of course I knew the jbweld is permanent. Uppers are cheap folks and if I find it still is a shit barrel so what. I can still shoot it, not like it will go in the trash.
I I am trying some hornady 53gr match bullets over 25 gr of IMR4895, next. Scope and rings are mounted properly. Not my first time to the rodeo. It is my first time trying the barrel bedding. |
| In the past when I was doing a lot of match shooting with my bench rifles, if we got a barrel that just wouldn't tune, I would take to a competent gunny who knew how to crown a barrel correctly, I would never use JB to bed a barrel, but I can assure you, that was not the problem, you have a breakdown somewhere that is causing flyers, uppers might be cheap, but decent quality barrels aren't. There is really no reason that even a normal run of the mill AR shouldn't be shooting MOA at a hundred yards, if they won't then something has broke down somewhere and you need to find it before you start throwing more money at it! |
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Quoted:
Bedding is arguably useful... I have my doubts, assuming quality components. You get performance from the barrel (including chamber, throat, crown), headspaced bolt, trigger, and FF rail system. Agree with everything above, from arguably useful to FF rail system. I'm thinking that adding additional alignment and stiffness adds some marginal value. What I'm thinking; Quality barrel -check Matched bolt - check Qualtiy trigger - check FF rail - check True upper receiver - check Eliminate extension/receiver wobble by "bedding" - check Billet receiver for stiffness - check |
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Quoted: Of course I knew the jbweld is permanent. Uppers are cheap folks and if I find it still is a shit barrel so what. I can still shoot it, not like it will go in the trash. I I am trying some hornady 53gr match bullets over 25 gr of IMR4895, next. Scope and rings are mounted properly. Not my first time to the rodeo. It is my first time trying the barrel bedding. You asked for advice. I gave you advice that I didn't see listed as troubleshooting steps in your original post. Good luck. |
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A2 , crown is fine. Cage was just snugged down and rockset in place to ensure the crown was not distorted. If I was searching for a full on target rifle I would have gone with a thread protector for sure.
FCG is simple CMMG mil spec and though nothing special it is pretty smooth. I can shoot sub MOA groups out of my R25 308Win. which has a mil spec trigger also. Of course a better trigger can help but once again. I am not searching for .5 MOA groups, just more acceptable 2 MOA. |
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Erik: I suggest you start over, this time with a name brand barrel. SAA is a small retail shop, no telling who makes the barrels they sell. Some brands to consider are Green Mountain, AR Performance and Faxon, also Rainier Arms sells excellent barrels under their house brand. A 1in8 or 1in7 twist is preferred, IMO. Because you used JB Weld on your existing no-name barrel, its unlikely you will be able to remove it from the upper receiver, i.e., its trashed. With a new Aero Precision or Mega upper receiver, install the new barrel using moly grease only. The rest of your existing components should be quite usable. For your handloads, start with quality bullets in the 50 to 55 grain range. I prefer Sierra 53 gr Matchkings over 25 grains of Benchmark or H335. With a consistent hold and careful trigger control, a quality AR barrel and suitable handloads, select groups of 10 rounds into less than an inch at 100 yards is quite possible. My own home-built AR in .223 caliber is easily the most accurate rifle I own. - CW Here's a typical group from my .223, with its 20" 1in8 barrel from Green Mountain: <a href="http://s1012.photobucket.com/user/chasw44/media/AR%20groups/WP_20150119_07_29_58_Pro_zps5e88acf1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af242/chasw44/AR%20groups/WP_20150119_07_29_58_Pro_zps5e88acf1.jpg</a> Quoted:
Quoted:
My home build groups poorly (4 inches or so) with a number of scopes. In an effort to tighten things up I pulled the barrel and tossed a skim of JBweld on the extension. I don't know if it will help but I figure to give it a shot. I have a 16 inch SAA stainless barrel in a AP upper with a Troy FF rail/tube. It should do better than the 4 inch groups with my hand loads (I am successful with my other rifles so this one should be no different). I have removed and re-torqued the barrel twice, loaded using a number of different recipes and used a number of different bullets with no real improvement. It will be a bit before I can get back to the range to check the results but I figured I could ask if anyone had tried it and what results they got. I would like to see 2 inch groups at 100 yards. I am not looking for a bench gun. Because you used JB Weld on your existing no-name barrel, its unlikely you will be able to remove it from the upper receiver, i.e., its trashed. With a new Aero Precision or Mega upper receiver, install the new barrel using moly grease only. The rest of your existing components should be quite usable. For your handloads, start with quality bullets in the 50 to 55 grain range. I prefer Sierra 53 gr Matchkings over 25 grains of Benchmark or H335. With a consistent hold and careful trigger control, a quality AR barrel and suitable handloads, select groups of 10 rounds into less than an inch at 100 yards is quite possible. My own home-built AR in .223 caliber is easily the most accurate rifle I own. - CW Here's a typical group from my .223, with its 20" 1in8 barrel from Green Mountain: <a href="http://s1012.photobucket.com/user/chasw44/media/AR%20groups/WP_20150119_07_29_58_Pro_zps5e88acf1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af242/chasw44/AR%20groups/WP_20150119_07_29_58_Pro_zps5e88acf1.jpg</a> Nope, mine won't do that. LOL. Not a chance. |
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