AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/9/2016 1:28:44 AM EDT
|
Hi all,
This is my first post and I'm happy to be here! After doing considerable research, and having some mechanical ability, I decided to buy a lower and go from there for my first AR. I ended up picking up a stripped lower + upper (assembled with forward assist) from my LGS. I didn't intend to drop what I did on a Spikes Tactical, but oh well. So last weekend I put in a PSA LPK along with their nicer FCG and a Magpul grip and trigger guard; the follow at the LGS sold me a grey setup, so I figured I'd match the furnature, plus I'm not terribly far from Magpul geographically and look forward to heading up to WY sometime soon. I think I'll go with a 14.5" barrel with the requisite muzzle device to keep legal, and am pretty set on a lower profile, lower end Magpul stock and off-the-internet buffer assembly. So I am in a total quandary over free float vs. drop in hand guard; and this is where my knowledge ends. I've read many conflicting opinions, both for DIY and stock upgrades... What opinions are out there for this decision? I was thinking Magpul polymer for a while, but looking at my upper, I just feel like I should go rail or keymod. I'm also completely torn over my BCG: DI or piston? I'd been leaning towards piston, as it wouldn't be that much more expensive as I haven't bought a BCG, but I've also read a lot of conflicting opinions. One thing I will say is I don't expect to be putting thousands of rounds through this thing per month once it's built; but that makes me even more confused, as I wouldn't need to clean it as much. So balancing the upkeep with the apparent wear and tear of a piston system is difficult with this being my first build. Please let me know any thoughts, or if I'm erring in my thinking. Peace! Tom PS: I'm sorry in advance if all this has been answered; I just didn't see it if it has been. |
|
I would stick to a DI. If this is your first...this will get you familiar with how the ar platform works..plus it will save you some money that can be spent on ammo. This will not be your only one...trust me...you can venture off to the piston in a later build if you wish.
|
|
Welcome to the forums!
Regarding hand guards, I've gone both ways and I prefer a free float. But keep in mind that its your weapon, so do whatever you like and what you will be happy with. If you go free float, make sure the FF will fit around your gas block and gas tube. I would also go with DI. Its the way ARs were designed to work and have worked for many years. IMHO, you won't have a problem with it. |
|
Thanks for the advice! I probably will go DI; piston is tempting, but it just seems like, with almost not experience with the AR platform, it's best, as you said, to stick with what the rifle is meant to do.
WRT to FF vs. drop-in, I definitely want FF. What I haven't been able to figure out is the difficulty and tools needed for the install. I like to do all my work myself--same with my jeep... put on a suspension lift myself--so, I'd really prefer not to need a gunsmith for work. Now, I was thinking of bringing my rifle to a gunsmith or my knowledgable LGS proprietor, the only good one (and there are really only two) here outside the People's Republic of Boulder, just to get a second set of eyes and a thumbs up that the thing won't explode on me when I try to fire it. Is that worth doing? Thanks again for the advice! I've made up my mind. DI it is. Peace through strength, Tom |
|
Quoted:
Now, I was thinking of bringing my rifle to a gunsmith or my knowledgable LGS proprietor, the only good one (and there are really only two) here outside the People's Republic of Boulder, just to get a second set of eyes and a thumbs up that the thing won't explode on me when I try to fire it. Is that worth doing? Pick out a rail that meets your needs and budget and watch a couple of Youtube videos on how to install it. Buy a vise block (clam shell) for your receiver. Buy a good armorer's wrench Buy some AeroShell 33 Use the torque wrench you already have Congrats! You are now closer to being a pro than you were before! |
|
Thanks man! But wouldn't you have some apprehension about firing off your first DIY rifle without someone else inspecting it?? If not, cool, but I expect to fire this thing for the first time in the Pawnee National Grasslands here in CO, and I don't want my wife or myself to get hurt in the middle of nowhere... Though I highly doubt she'd touch it--I just don't want the bold to go flying or any paranoid stuff like that.
Budget-wise, I can get a 14.5" barrel for under $150 online and an FF real piece--which is best for a carbine? ~7"? ~10"? I love the look of lots of rail with the barrel poking out at the end. Of course a muzzle device too to keep legal. Any advice on gray parts? I got my receiver in gray for a good price, and Magpul matches well, but I'm finding more and more the color is hard to find. Peace through strength, Tom |
| If you are going with the 14.5 the muzzle device will have to be pinned and welded by a gunsmith anyway (unless it comes that way or you are comfortable doing that yourself) to reach a permanent length of 16". Other than that do as much research as you can on Youtube. As long as you purchase quality parts the only "inspection" you might want to do before firing is checking headspace. Good luck and keep us updated. |
|
Quoted:
Thanks for the advice! I probably will go DI; piston is tempting, but it just seems like, with almost not experience with the AR platform, it's best, as you said, to stick with what the rifle is meant to do. WRT to FF vs. drop-in, I definitely want FF. What I haven't been able to figure out is the difficulty and tools needed for the install. I like to do all my work myself--same with my jeep... put on a suspension lift myself--so, I'd really prefer not to need a gunsmith for work. Now, I was thinking of bringing my rifle to a gunsmith or my knowledgable LGS proprietor, the only good one (and there are really only two) here outside the People's Republic of Boulder, just to get a second set of eyes and a thumbs up that the thing won't explode on me when I try to fire it. Is that worth doing? Thanks again for the advice! I've made up my mind. DI it is. Peace through strength, Tom Hi Tom, You're most welcome! Regarding the FF hand guard, the wrench you use to tighten the barrel nut down depends on the manufacturer of the handguard. Some use a special FF wrench, while others, like the kind I've used and like, require the use of a 1-3/16 crowfoot wrench (the head of an open end wrench with an opening for a rachet / torque wrench) that attaches to your torque wrench. If you go FF, pick out a style FF hand guard you like. If the manufacturer doesn't recommend a wrench, ask here. In fact, ask here first because some wrenches get rather pricey and there are cheaper alternatives. Some wrenches are also junk and bend easily. You'll also need a "clamshell" receiver vise to wrap around your upper when you secure it in a bench vise. Those aren't too expensive - I got mine as part of a set back in 2011 for @$35. If you haven't done so already, check out the tutorials on building ARs on this site. They're very good. Thanks man! But wouldn't you have some apprehension about firing off your first DIY rifle without someone else inspecting it?? If not, cool, but I expect to fire this thing for the first time in the Pawnee National Grasslands here in CO, and I don't want my wife or myself to get hurt in the middle of nowhere... Though I highly doubt she'd touch it--I just don't want the bold to go flying or any paranoid stuff like that. IMHO, as long as you use good quality parts (no factory out of spec rejects) and as long as you follow the instructions in a good tutorial, like the ones you can find on this site, you won't have a problem. Headspace on an AR is set by the barrel and barrel extension (the smooth part on the barrel with a pin sticking up.) Its a different setup than say a bolt action rifle. As long as headspace was set correctly at the factory and your upper receiver parts are in spec, you won't have a problem with headspace. I've built many ARs and guided others through building ARs and i've never seen one that had headspace issues. If you want to check the headspace, you can buy headspace gauges from Brownells or other companies. Even if the headspace checks fine, you will have learned how to check headspace and have a new firearms related skill! Regarding DI vs. piston, as long as you keep your weapon clean, you won't have a problem with DI. And cleaning it never seemed to take more effort than any other type of weapon. I've always cleaned guns after I shot them, and i've never had a problem with DI ARs being too filthy to fire. In fact, i've shot other weapons and depending on the type of power used and the type of system, they seemed to get filthier than an AR. Eugene Stoner knew what he was doing. IMHO, I think the only real problem you're going to have is that when you finish your first build, you're going to want to build another. Building ARs is like eating potato chips - you can't eat just one! 
Good luck, ask any questions you have, and be sure to share pictures with us when you're done! Whit |
|
Quoted:
Thanks man! But wouldn't you have some apprehension about firing off your first DIY rifle without someone else inspecting it?? I Many people have tinkered their way through a home build successfully - you will too. Seriously though, follow good instructions like the one's in this forum, wear ear and eye pro, and you'll be fine. The platform is pretty kaboom resistant as is. If you have something mis-assembled the more likely result is failure to function. Good luck, and post pics!! |
|
If the weapon hand cycles snap caps and you assembled it following the various well qualified tutorials it will just work.
I used the MidwayUSA AR assembly videos when I did mine. Just have youtube up on a screen during assembly and pause/play as needed during assembly. Get all the recommended tools, even for one rifle build. Yeah, people use the kitchen table and household tools but you're going to drop 20x the $ on ammo than you'll spend on the tools after it's done so why not have the tools? Armorer's wrench, roll pin punch set, clamshell receiver clamp, mag well vise holder, delta ring compressor tool if you're installing drop in handguards, GOOD set of SAE allen wrenches, brass/delrin punch hammer, punch set, barrel vise blocks. This assumes you have a decent vise and workbench and a torque wrench. |
|
Quoted: If the weapon hand cycles snap caps and you assembled it following the various well qualified tutorials it will just work. Quoted: If the weapon hand cycles snap caps and you assembled it following the various well qualified tutorials it will just work. When I built my first AR back in 1992, all I had to go by was the Army and USMC M-16 manuals. As the build was nearing completion, I became more worried about headspace. I shared my concern with a friend and neighbor who was a M-16 armorer and used to work part-time for a 07 manufacturer building M-16s for law enforcement sales. He told me the same thing as racer766 said. If your build hand cycles and loads and ejects fine, you won't have a problem. Sure enough, he was absolutely right. Get all the recommended tools, even for one rifle build. Yeah, people use the kitchen table and household tools but you're going to drop 20x the $ on ammo than you'll spend on the tools after it's done so why not have the tools? Armorer's wrench, roll pin punch set, clamshell receiver clamp, mag well vise holder, delta ring compressor tool if you're installing drop in handguards, GOOD set of SAE allen wrenches, brass/delrin punch hammer, punch set, barrel vise blocks. This assumes you have a decent vise and workbench and a torque wrench. I'll second racer766. Those are the minimum tools you're going to need. If you're using drop in handguards, you can get by without the delta ring compression tool, but it does help remove the struggle changing out or installing handguards. However, if you go FF handguard, you won't need the delta ring compression tool. Plus, once you have those tools, you can use them on your next builds or help others out with theirs. Remember what I said about not being able to build just one?
One thing that happened to me and many others, is that when you build your first AR, you will have a greater appreciation for Eugene Stoner's creation. |
|
Thanks again, all. It seems as true here as I've experienced out at the range and target shooting in the woods: gun people are some of the friendliest you'll meet! I guess it's best to be friendly when talking about deadly instruments.
Although I've watched many YouTube videos and done a fair amount of reading, I haven't read tutorials here yet; so since I don't have to work this evening or (God willing, this weekend) I'm to start reading on this site. In the meantime, I'm attaching a photograph of what I've put together so far. Oh, and and about the whole "this won't be my first build" several have said... You're damned right! I'm an engineer; I can't stop building! I haven't made up my mind on 7.62x51 in a semi auto, but I'm going to buy as many stripped lowers (serialized, 80%, whatever) as I can afford with the lead up to the election. And, dear God, if Hillary is elected, whether she manages to restrict us or not, you KNOW everything will disappear. 
... Really just a PSA LPK, PSA enhanced FCG and Magpull grip+trigger guard. Peace through strength, Tom |
|
Thanks again, all. It seems as true here as I've experienced out at the range and target shooting in the woods: gun people are some of the friendliest you'll meet! I guess it's best to be friendly when talking about deadly instruments.
Although I've watched many YouTube videos and done a fair amount of reading, I haven't read tutorials here yet; so since I don't have to work this evening or (God willing, this weekend) I'm to start reading on this site. In the meantime, I'm attaching a photograph of what I've put together so far. Oh, and and about the whole "this won't be my first build" several have said... You're damned right! I'm an engineer; I can't stop building! I haven't made up my mind on 7.62x51 in a semi auto, but I'm going to buy as many stripped lowers (serialized, 80%, whatever) as I can afford with the lead up to the election. And, dear God, if Hillary is elected, whether she manages to restrict us or not, you KNOW everything will disappear.
... Really just a PSA LPK, PSA enhanced FCG and Magpull grip+trigger guard. Peace through strength, Tom |
Welcome!
|
If you want to end up with a full float tube I would just start off with that. Otherwise you are going to have to buy and install other parts (delta ring assembly and handguard cap...) only to pull it off later when you get a tube. And that will require removing the barrel and gas block and resetting all that back up again, it isn't hard but just more to do.
And figure up the price of the Magpul handguard and all the parts to make it fit... your tube just got that much cheaper in the long run by skipping the two piece step. I would for sure check headspace, I had a new rifle from the factory (a Marlin 336 30-30 of all things, and it had even been test fired) that had the headspace off and was pushing the primers out of the case 1/32"... so I am kinda jumpy about such things. Especially when things move around in there on their own. |
| I would run DI to start for sure. Free Float is sweet, but think about what extras you want on your FF set-up then decide which of the four kinds you want (those 4 being smooth, pic rail, keymod or M-lok). I just did a drop-in (non-FF) DI middy then put a M-lok on it. I like M-lok but being the newest of the bunch, there are less things (for now) that use that system. Keymod has more things you can use and pic rail has the most overall. Ive done (in the past) 3 FF conversions on prebuild drop-in uppers that used the standard barrel nut and liked all of them. The Midwest Gen2 Free Float two piece rail, the Fortis REV and the Omega. Also tried the drop-in Free Float systems (Troy Delta and Vltor CASV), which are a bit more heavy. |
AR Sponsor