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Posted: 2/14/2016 8:18:38 AM EDT
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Built many lowers from 80% to billet,all went well. Is there a method of building an upper that would be be considered the "correct" way and if so is there a pdf of this preferred method? I know a lot of you have built many too, any tips you care to share? I guess my question boils down to what makes the guys that work for Crane different than those that work at LMT/Colt/Daniel Defense vs the guy at the local gunship that has been there for 30+ putting out reliable sub ->1 MOA uppers? (No disrespect is meant towards any of them). Obviously my goals are: 1 - Safety First - Do not want any discharge when chambering a round if it turns out to be my fault, etc. 2 - Reliability 3 - Useable - this will have to do with the parts I buy, but would like to skip the mistakes that cause undo/excessive wear that a 'seasoned' builder would know 4 - Accuracy - As accurate as can be given the parts I choose My uses will be target for the most part, but do not necessarily want a target upper. Weight will be a factor in all parts I buy as IMHO every firearm should always have the capability to be a fighting weapon (considering this will be based on the AR15 platform), 16 - 18 barrell, mid or rifle gas setup. Please either contribute from personal experience or point me to a book/built blog that helps me out. Thank you in advance for your time. Bob FWIW this thead will be x-posted in different forums. If you feel a certain type of forum would be beneficial, please let me know, PMs are always welcome if you would rather contact me that way. Bob Edited for spelling/grammar, it is 0520 and have yet to sleep  |
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Quoted:
Built many lowers from 80% to billet,all went well. Is there a method of building an upper that would be be considered the "correct" way and if so is there a pdf of this preferred method? I know a lot of you have built many too, any tips you care to share? I guess my question boils down to what makes the guys that work for Crane different than those that work at LMT/Colt/Daniel Defense vs the guy at the local gunship that has been there for 30+ putting out reliable sub ->1 MOA uppers? (No disrespect is meant towards any of them). Obviously my goals are: 1 - Safety First - Do not want any discharge when chambering a round if it turns out to be my fault, etc. 2 - Reliability 3 - Useable - this will have to do with the parts I buy, but would like to skip the mistakes that cause undo/excessive wear that a 'seasoned' builder would know 4 - Accuracy - As accurate as can be given the parts I choose My uses will be target for the most part, but do not necessarily want a target upper. Weight will be a factor in all parts I buy as IMHO every firearm should always have the capability to be a fighting weapon (considering this will be based on the AR15 platform), 16 - 18 barrell, mid or rifle gas setup. Please either contribute from personal experience or point me to a book/built blog that helps me out. Thank you in advance for your time. Bob FWIW this thead will be x-posted in different forums. If you feel a certain type of forum would be beneficial, please let me know, PMs are always welcome if you would rather contact me that way. Bob Edited for spelling/grammar, it is 0520 and have yet to sleep
As for instructions, the sticky at the top of this subforum is what I used the first time, also YouTube has numerous how-to videos, check those made by Brownells. The only really tricky part of the whole operation is that pesky little roll pin that affixes the gas tube to the gas block. Its even more difficult if you don't have the right punches made specifically for the .081" diameter roll pin. Check Brownells, the starter has a little pocket in the end to hold the pin while starting it, the driver has a little tit on the end to keep the roll pin in shape as you hammer it home. If/when you install a muzzle device, clamp the exposed portion of your barrel in your vise, using wooden blocks, before applying torque to the MD. You don't want to translate that torque to the barrel/receiver interface. IMO assembling an AR-15 lower is definitely more difficult than assembling an upper, with more places to make mistakes. good luck - CW |
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Forgot to mention, I prefer to face off the front edge of the upper receiver before installing a barrel. That way the interfacing parts are close to perpendicular to the axes of the receiver and barrel. Even the slightest bit of yaw in that regard results in a barrel that is slightly off center where it exits the FF handguard and it affects the position of iron sights. I use the Wheeler tool and a drill motor to perform this operation, only takes a few minutes. All of my high quality uppers needed a tiny little bit metal or anodizing removed here. Once you have a bright ring all the way around the edge, you are done. - CW
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/821295/wheeler-engineering-delta-series-upper-receiver-lapping-tool-ar-15 |
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chasw covered it pretty well. Most mistakes involve not using the appropriate upper receiver vise blocks to support the upper receiver when installing the barrel nut and not supporting or gripping the barrel itself when doing muzzle device work. There is never any reason to put any force on the barrel extension when assembling an upper.
Brownell's and Midway USA should have just about any tooling you should need. |
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The others pretty much covered it. Biggest thing is to avoid putting stress on the aluminum receiver, or the barrel extension. Don't want to twist the upper, and don't want to damage the barrel extension. Buy a quality BCG, and barrel. Any good quality BCG and barrel should headspace fine, but I always double check (not everyone does). Lapping the upper receiver isn't a bad idea for a longer range AR, but not really required for a CQB AR assuming you're using a quality upper (IMHO) and shooting within 200 yards. My next build (SPR) will have the upper lapped, but I'm going to be doing other things as well to help the accuracy...If you want more info on accuracy, check out the semi-auto precision rifles forum here, lots of good AR info there. Good how to video series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFYdtvyvlNI |
Thanks for the info. The BCG is 8620 steel for the carrier & C158 for the bolt, HPT/MPI (chrome lined in the correct places, properly staked gas key). I have read that 9310 steel is taking over for the bolt but atm it seems either is g2g. Finding a upper has been a bit more challenging than I thought, didn't realize there seems to be somewhat of a buying frenzy going on, even for uppers in the white. Will have to keep an eye out now that I know what is going on. Regardless if I find an anodized unit or not, I can get it anodized and then have it surfaced so I am working with a flat surface to begin with. In the mean time I will get the jigs incoming while I find a upper/brl & rail (didn't think this part would be an issue)  Out of curiosity, are those Ballistic Advantage & Faxom barrels true to what the manfs say? I understand the methods, just wondering how they hold up uver time compared to just a "regular" 416R barrel. The prices seem very good and want to make sure it is not snake oil in any fashion. Thanks in advance, Bob |
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Out of curiosity, are those Ballistic Advantage & Faxom barrels true to what the manfs say? I understand the methods, just wondering how they hold up uver time compared to just a "regular" 416R barrel. The prices seem very good and want to make sure it is not snake oil in any fashion. What fashions are you concerned about? I don't have first hand experience with Faxon's products (build went a different route or I would have) but those I've talked to that have them and they seem to be fine barrels. They are also quite active on the forums are readily available to answer questions about their products. The Nitride/QPQ isn't unique to them and not unique to the firearms world itself, so if that is your concern don't worry about it. |
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Guess it is the price I am surprised with. Not that I am complaining, just seems that when you can find them in stock, you sure are getting a Hell of a deal even from their site. Guess we have been "conditioned" from certain shops to expect to pay quite a bit more for what these barrels offer. What fashions are you concerned about? I don't have first hand experience with Faxon's products (build went a different route or I would have) but those I've talked to that have them and they seem to be fine barrels. They are also quite active on the forums are readily available to answer questions about their products. The Nitride/QPQ isn't unique to them and not unique to the firearms world itself, so if that is your concern don't worry about it. Quoted:Out of curiosity, are those Ballistic Advantage & Faxom barrels true to what the manfs say? I understand the methods, just wondering how they hold up uver time compared to just a "regular" 416R barrel. The prices seem very good and want to make sure it is not snake oil in any fashion. What fashions are you concerned about? I don't have first hand experience with Faxon's products (build went a different route or I would have) but those I've talked to that have them and they seem to be fine barrels. They are also quite active on the forums are readily available to answer questions about their products. The Nitride/QPQ isn't unique to them and not unique to the firearms world itself, so if that is your concern don't worry about it. |
| I have not used the magpul product. From looking at a picture of it, the block seems to create the possibility of putting torsional stress on the pivot pin area and the barrel extension. This is not where stress should be applied. There is no need to stress the barrel extension and the pivot pin lug is a relatively small part. I do not like the design. Use the clam shell upper vise blocks with the supporting insert. It can be found at Brownell's. |
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Instead of the clamshell jigs, how is the magpul bev? Just get a pair of upper receiver blocks and barrel vise blocks and call it a day. They can both be found really cheap. Upper receiver vise block - $20 Quality barrel vise block Watch for the barrel vise blocks to go on sale. I got mine for $25. If you don't want to buy barre vise blocks, you can make a decent set out of wood. Link to how to |
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FWIW, I use the DPMS Claw (made of stiff plastic) to hold the upper receiver while working on the barrel nut. It is a tight fit inside the upper and does not put undue stress on the TD and pivot pins. Where ever possible, I use handguards with barrel nuts that don't require indexing for the gas tube. That allows me to apply about 35 to 40 lb-ft of torque and be done with it.
I suspect the Claw, the clamshell, the Bev and the Reaction Rod will all do the job just fine so long as you don't apply too much torque. As to which one is strongest or does the best job of protecting the upper receiver, I can't say. - CW http://www.stuttstacticalsupply.com/DPMS-Panther-Receiver-Claw-AR15-tool_p_315.html |
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Quoted:
Out of curiosity, are those Ballistic Advantage & Faxom barrels true to what the manfs say? I understand the methods, just wondering how they hold up uver time compared to just a "regular" 416R barrel. The prices seem very good and want to make sure it is not snake oil in any fashion. While we cannot speak for Ballistic Advantage, we are completely snake-oil free. Any specification listed on our website is 100% accurate. Please feel free to ask us anything (We have a long thread here that would be good to place for feedback). Cheers! |
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Thank you all for the continued answering of my questions. I have been shooting for 30+ years, yet this will be the first upper I will have built. Considering all that goes on once the trigger is pullud, just want to make sure everything I do is the best that can be done. As far as facing the threaded area where the upper and barrel meet, would there be any advantage to using a mill to face that meeting point vs thpowered unit that Brownells sells? FWIW, it is not a hobby mill, but one of the larger, industrial Fanuc units that is used in a machine shop that has many types of current verifications run by a ME with decades of experience. Or am I going overkill considering this upper is just a 16" unit, so will be used @ 600yds every so often with the bulk of shooting being 50, 100 & 200yds. Doing my best to not let tolerances stack up. @RogueNathan, appreciate hitting my question head on. Looking forward to doing an upper with your 18 or 20" SS "GUNNER" profile after I get my 'kinks' worked out with this first low $$ upper. Again, thanks goes out to you all  Bob |
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...snip... As far as facing the threaded area where the upper and barrel meet, would there be any advantage to using a mill to face that meeting point vs thpowered unit that Brownells sells? FWIW, it is not a hobby mill, but one of the larger, industrial Fanuc units that is used in a machine shop that has many types of current verifications run by a ME with decades of experience. Or am I going overkill considering this upper is just a 16" unit, so will be used @ 600yds every so often with the bulk of shooting being 50, 100 & 200yds. Doing my best to not let tolerances stack up. ...snip... Again, thanks goes out to you all
Bob The usual tool, either Wheeler or PTG brand, does this with a simple 1" OD spud and some grinding compound, powered by a hand drill. The whole thing only takes about 10 minutes. I've applied this operation to three brand name receivers so far (Mega and Aero Precision), none were perfectly square to begin with. good luck - CW |
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Just get a pair of upper receiver blocks and barrel vise blocks and call it a day. They can both be found really cheap. Upper receiver vise block - $20 Quality barrel vise block Watch for the barrel vise blocks to go on sale. I got mine for $25. If you don't want to buy barre vise blocks, you can make a decent set out of wood. Link to how to Quoted:
Quoted:
Instead of the clamshell jigs, how is the magpul bev? Just get a pair of upper receiver blocks and barrel vise blocks and call it a day. They can both be found really cheap. Upper receiver vise block - $20 Quality barrel vise block Watch for the barrel vise blocks to go on sale. I got mine for $25. If you don't want to buy barre vise blocks, you can make a decent set out of wood. Link to how to Another option, not ideal but functional in a pinch, is to use cardboard. I took two heavy pieces of cardboard and folded each over on both sides so that the fold didn't quite meet in the middle (about a 1/2" gap). Put these on each side of the barrel and you have a poor man's vice block that grips nicely and protects the barrel. Worked well enough for me that I'm not very motivated to buy a vice block. |
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Question re: quality of torque wrenches? in the past when I was wrenching on cars I spent the money on the good tools - Snap On, Mac, etc. Now when building this upper how far do I need to go up the ladder? Will a Harbor Freight do he job or do I need to go up, but to what point? I also do not know how many I will be building, so that would play into account but it is a # I have no idea what the # is. Last am I better off better off getting a much better brand, get it calibrated vs the Harbor Freight units the claim 4% consistency? I understand a decent amount of people do not use torque wrenches and their builds seem to turn out just fine, but I have to know preety close to where I am, so a torque wrench will be used. This 4% numbers seems to be used quite a bit on Craftsman and below(not a scientific finding) - why is this? Are the these units all pretty much the same in a different wrapper? Thanks in advance, Bob |
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I've borrowed a torque wrench for the builds I have done, both from AutoZone and from work, and they have ranged from basic to a higher-end SnapOn. Based on the range for the barrel nut (assuming that is what you are asking for) you should be fine even with a slight range. Same for smaller things such as optics and accessories (we have quite a few wrenches/drivers at work).
Just to clarify, what part of the build would this be for? |
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Quoted: ...snip Just to clarify, what part of the build would this be for? |
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I use the BEV block for installations of barrel nuts and muzzle devices. It's holding is from the interlock with the barrel extension and locked in by the carrier from the rear. The barrel extension is (supposed to be) torqued to 150ft/lbs, so applying the torques specified for a barrel nut or muzzle device should not disturb it at all. If it does the barrel extension is a problem to begin with. Removing the barrel or muzzle device with a BEV block, or reaction rod, is another story. Torques in excess of 150ft/lbs are easy to apply when removing a stubborn muzzle device or barrel nut. In these cases the barrel extension is just as likely to break loose with or before the part your trying to remove. Barrel blocks are used for removal use. |
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Quoted: I use the BEV block for installations of barrel nuts and muzzle devices. It's holding is from the interlock with the barrel extension and locked in by the carrier from the rear. The barrel extension is (supposed to be) torqued to 150ft/lbs, so applying the torques specified for a barrel nut or muzzle device should not disturb it at all. If it does the barrel extension is a problem to begin with. Removing the barrel or muzzle device with a BEV block, or reaction rod, is another story. Torques in excess of 150ft/lbs are easy to apply when removing a stubborn muzzle device or barrel nut. In these cases the barrel extension is just as likely to break loose with or before the part your trying to remove. Barrel blocks are used for removal use. |
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