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Posted: 12/24/2015 11:33:52 PM EDT
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Hi everyone, I've been a viewer of the forum for quite a few years now and have been planning a lightweight suppressed SBR 22lr.
Is it possible to build an SBR 22lr under 3 pounds? (Not including the suppressor) I have seen a few full sized AR15 builds in the 3.25-3.9lb range, usually using titanium parts including the bolt assembly. Are there Titanium Bolt Assemblies for a dedicated 22lr? Boomfab Titane Carrier4.28 oz VS 22lr CMMG Bolt 10.10 oz. What's the lightest dedicated 22lr upper receiver? MAG Tactical Upper 4.80 oz VS TACCOM AR22 Upper 7.20 oz. Parts not needed for 22lr? No Gas Block? No Gas Tube? No Buffer? No Buffer Tube? No Buffer Spring? Lightweight Parts: 4.80 oz MAG Tactical Upper 3.65 oz Tegra Lower 5.20 oz BCM KMR7 Handguard 1.20 oz MBUS Front Sight 1.30 oz MBUS Rear Sight 1.94 oz Magpul MOE K Grip 1.20 oz Lower Parts Kit 10.10 oz CMMG Bolt Carrier 2.50 oz Magpul MBUS Sights 2.00 oz TACCOM Charging Handle Unknown Weight Parts: <5 oz TACCOM ULW Stock 5 oz? TACCOM 4" Barrel 1 oz? TACCOM Pressure Plug ? oz? TACCOM Reliability Kit What else other parts would be needed to build a 22lr AR15? This comes in at 37.39 oz or 2.34 lbs. Would the MAG Tac upper require a CMMG conversion kit while using a dedicated receiver such as the TACCOM AR22 Upper require the CMMG Bolt Group 22ARC? Would the slide on either of these lock back with an empty mag? Preferred Alternate Parts (sub 4lb build 57.98 oz 3.62 lbs.): 8.80 oz Magpul CTR Stock 2.00 oz Magpul CTR Recoil Pad 5.88 oz MAG Tactical Lower 9.30 oz MI Gen2 T-Series Rail 7" 7.20 oz TACCOM AR22 Upper Other Alternate Parts: 5.60 oz Tennessee Arms Lower (They can engrave everything and build a complete lower) 7.90 oz SpikesTact 7" Sar3 Rail 7.50 oz Noveske NSR Rail 7" This is all very new to me but I have been saving and planning for a few years now. Finally looking to start my first build. Any recommendations or feedback would be appreciated! |
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His light weight carbon fiber shrouded 4 inch barrel, a carbon fiber stock, and a carbon fiber hand guard are a good start. I'll bet to get near 3 lbs your going to need a plum crazy lower with the plastic internals and a plastic upper too. I've never weighed mine, but I have a plum crazy lower, a 7 in carbon fiber stressed barrel, a plastic upper, a Giselle SD3G, a UCIW stock, and a 7.25 Troy hand guard. It's over 4 lbs I'm sure. I have the same setup with a Mag Tactical lower and a 9in Troy it's probably a couple Oz heavier. after hanging the silencer and the gen 1 night vision it's much heavier. Lol. Heres a pic from while I was waiting for the form 1. 
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Even the all plastic plum crazy LPK is heavier than 1 ounce IIRC. Quoted:
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where are you getting a LPK only weighs 1.2 oz? Even the all plastic plum crazy LPK is heavier than 1 ounce IIRC. yeah, I documented my lightweight build and weighed every part and I remember the hammer itself was over an ounce, Im pretty sure the bolt catch was near an ounce too. These were mil spec parts though. |
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Hi everyone, I've been a viewer of the forum for quite a few years now and have been planning a lightweight suppressed SBR 22lr. Is it possible to build an SBR 22lr under 3 pounds? (Not including the suppressor) I have seen a few full sized AR15 builds in the 3.25-3.9lb range, usually using titanium parts including the bolt assembly. There are NO titanium AR bolts, only bolt carriers. Are there Titanium Bolt Assemblies for a dedicated 22lr? No, being that the .22 L.R conversions are blowback, they require a certain weight to function correctly. |
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No you don't. Several stocks that don't use it. Quoted:
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You may not need a spring or buffer, but you'll need the tube. No you don't. Several stocks that don't use it. Taccom Ultra light stock for the 22 doesn't use it either. It's a carbon fiber rod and a buttplate. |
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Taccom Ultra light stock for the 22 doesn't use it either. It's a carbon fiber rod and a buttplate. Quoted:
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You may not need a spring or buffer, but you'll need the tube. No you don't. Several stocks that don't use it. Taccom Ultra light stock for the 22 doesn't use it either. It's a carbon fiber rod and a buttplate. Just noticed that. I stand corrected. |
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None of those rails are going to get you to sub 3 lbs... Quoted:
None of those rails are going to get you to sub 3 lbs... Do you happen to know what the lightest rail is? The lightest I could find and attach a sight to the top was the BCM KMR7 Handguard. I haven't looked into the carbon fiber ones yet. I need to add a sight on the end of the top and may attach something to the bottom. Quoted:
His light weight carbon fiber shrouded 4 inch barrel... I have the same setup with a Mag Tactical lower and a 9in Troy it's probably a couple Oz heavier. after hanging the silencer and the gen 1 night vision it's much heavier. Lol. Looks nice! While crunching numbers, I was amazed at how much weight a light and optics can add. Quoted:
where are you getting a LPK only weighs 1.2 oz? There is a lightweight build on another site weighing 3.25 pounds with a 16" barrel. This person listed their LPK at 1.2oz but didn't list which one. I just figured that was a common weight. Do you happen to know the lightest weight LPK? It seems that most I found online do not have weights listed. Thanks for the feedback everyone. If you know of lighter parts than what are listed below or you have experienced different weights please let me know. Lightweight Parts: 4.80 oz MAG Tactical Upper 3.65 oz Tegra Lower 5.20 oz BCM KMR7 Handguard 1.20 oz MBUS Front Sight 1.30 oz MBUS Rear Sight 1.94 oz Magpul MOE K Grip 10.10 oz CMMG Bolt Carrier 2.50 oz Magpul MBUS Sights 2.00 oz TACCOM Charging Handle Unknown Weight Parts: <5 oz TACCOM ULW Stock 5 oz? TACCOM 4" Barrel 1 oz? TACCOM Pressure Plug ? oz? TACCOM Reliability Kit ? oz? Lower Parts Kit What else other parts would be needed to build a 22lr AR15? This comes in at 36.19 oz or 2.26 lbs. |
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Tim @ Taccom told me that his 4" ULW Barrel weighed ~6 oz, the pressure plug ~1 oz, his bolt assembly (with reliability kit installed) ~8 oz. If you use the Taccom ULW Stock, you won't need the pressure plug.
For the LPK, if you use exotic V7 titanium/aluminum/steel parts, then the total of the following parts is about 1.2 oz.(very expensive for this weight reduction) V7-TI-THP-154 Trigger/Hammer pins (0.08) V7-ULBC-S7 Bolt Catch (0.30) V7-HYB90-RH Safety Selector (0.29) V7-TIGS Ti Grip Screw (0.11) V7-UL-MAG-CR Mag Catch/Release (0.17) V7-UL-APS Takedown/pivot pins (0.18) springs and detents (0.04) The fire control group has a pretty wide range of weight. Mil-Spec is around 3 oz. You may find lighter FCGs but probably no lighter than 2 oz. Timney AR-15 FCG is 2.4 oz. That's all I have researched, hope that helps. ETA - if you use the Taccom ULW Stock, you won't need the V7-BUFRET-TI buffer retainer (0.04) Added component weights on the V7 parts (in oz) Corrected Mil-Spec FCG weight. |
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OP, can you post a link to that 3.25 lb build you mentioned from another forum. Curious to see his parts list
Edit, I think I found it. I question a couple of those posted weights. 1.2oz lpk, .6 oz buffer and some others. I did mine under 4lbs but no polymer anything |
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OP, can you post a link to that 3.25 lb build you mentioned from another forum. Curious to see his parts list Scarr has one on here that's about that. I built one that was 3.875 about 5-6 years ago. Sub 3 in 5.56 is coming, I'd already have it done if I had more disposable income. |
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Scarr has one on here that's about that. I built one that was 3.875 about 5-6 years ago. Sub 3 in 5.56 is coming, I'd already have it done if I had more disposable income. Quoted:
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OP, can you post a link to that 3.25 lb build you mentioned from another forum. Curious to see his parts list Scarr has one on here that's about that. I built one that was 3.875 about 5-6 years ago. Sub 3 in 5.56 is coming, I'd already have it done if I had more disposable income. My money is on Josh Aston to break the 3 lb. barrier. |
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Tim @ Taccom told me that his 4" ULW Barrel weighed ~6 oz, the pressure plug ~1 oz, his bolt assembly (with reliability kit installed) ~8 oz... Quoted:
Tim @ Taccom told me that his 4" ULW Barrel weighed ~6 oz, the pressure plug ~1 oz, his bolt assembly (with reliability kit installed) ~8 oz... That actually helps a lot! Thank you for posting all of that information. Quoted:
Moar expensive, but moar lighter sights... Thank you for these lighter parts and weights. Quoted:
OP, can you post a link to that 3.25 lb build you mentioned from another forum... Are we allowed to post links to other forums? I'm on a few other forums (not gun related) and they are strict on posting links. Quoted:
Scarr has one on here that's about that. I built one that was 3.875 about 5-6 years ago. Sub 3 in 5.56 is coming, I'd already have it done if I had more disposable income. Looking forward to seeing your build! Please keep us updated as you work on it. Quoted:
My money is on Josh Aston to break the 3 lb. barrier. I'm surprised that more people haven't tried to break the 3 lb. barrier. |
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bro,
no gas tube, no gas block, you can get an aluminum barrel nut and just glue and ultra narrow diameter thin carbon fiber tube over the barrel nut. maybe SLR rifleworks will sell you of his aluminum barrel nuts and a wrench. You cannot use a milspect type nut b/c of the teeth sticking out. 
that is actually a 308 nut, but the 556 nut is the same, just smaller, and would host a carbon fiber tube just fine via glue or even perhaps a bike seat post clamp or something like that. |
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not sure if someone set you straight or not altready, but the titamium boom fab carrier, for example, is for gas operated center fire only. A 22 lr blowback conversion bolt is its own animal and does not work w/ either regular centerfire AR bolt OR bolt carrier.
note that w/ a blowback 22lr build you would not need gas block or gas tube. Neither would you need a handguard w/a space for these, you could use like a 1.5" OD tube, or probably more like 1.25" OD. To use a handguard w/ a top rail on it would be a waste both ergonomically and in terms of adding dead weight. Use a red dot, if you need BUIS, just put them on the upper fore and aft and that will get you out of a bind. new frontier armory has a plastic lower parts kit. JohnofAustin FWIW, the extar 556 is 2.98 lbs. Add that taccom rimfire stock and what are you at?? Midways says it is 5 oz. That probably includes the castle nut and emplate of steel. V7 and especially smoke composites have endplate and castle nuts much lighter (OP, so look there if you want to take it to an extreme, IIRC, he smoke composites carbon fiber end plate is only 1 gram!) Of course, an extar 556 lower reciever is not threaded in the back, one owuldhave to fit their upper to another lower (it can be done), assuming the same weight one is looking at least 3.25lbs. I just dont' see how one can get a centerfire AR down below 3lbs. I had a look and Taccon has a 1 & 5/8" OD rimfire hand guard, it is rifle lengthis and 6 oz. |
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not sure if someone set you straight or not altready, but the titamium boom fab carrier, for example, is for gas operated center fire only. A 22 lr blowback conversion bolt is its own animal and does not work w/ either regular centerfire AR bolt OR bolt carrier. note that w/ a blowback 22lr build you would not need gas block or gas tube. Neither would you need a handguard w/a space for these, you could use like a 1.5" OD tube, or probably more like 1.25" OD. To use a handguard w/ a top rail on it would be a waste both ergonomically and in terms of adding dead weight. Use a red dot, if you need BUIS, just put them on the upper fore and aft and that will get you out of a bind. new frontier armory has a plastic lower parts kit. JohnofAustin FWIW, the extar 556 is 2.98 lbs. Add that taccom rimfire stock and what are you at?? Midways says it is 5 oz. That probably includes the castle nut and emplate of steel. V7 and especially smoke composites have endplate and castle nuts much lighter (OP, so look there if you want to take it to an extreme, IIRC, he smoke composites carbon fiber end plate is only 1 gram!) Of course, an extar 556 lower reciever is not threaded in the back, one owuldhave to fit their upper to another lower (it can be done), assuming the same weight one is looking at least 3.25lbs. I just dont' see how one can get a centerfire AR down below 3lbs. I had a look and Taccon has a 1 & 5/8" OD rimfire hand guard, it is rifle lengthis and 6 oz. It can & WILL be done! IIFC, JoshAston stated he feels he can do it but cost is preventing it at this point. As I've stated many times.... "Light isn't cheap"! At this point, I'd guess JoshAston has the lightest functioning AR out there. He built it on a Calvary Arms lower and (IIRC) was several ounces below 4 lbs. There is way more development in lightweight AR parts going on at this time than I've EVER seen. V7, 2A-Armament, Battle Arms Development, Craig (CMSENGINE), and others are all working on "lightweight". It's going to require two things.....MONEY & INNOVATION. One thing I think that is going to be required is for someone to offer more Carbon Fiber parts, upper & lower receivers actually manufactured from Carbon Fiber mat, not cheap ass plastic with "chopped carbon fiber" that breaks if you blink at it. |
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does anyone have a link to that lightweight they are John did on the cavalry arms lower? I must of milled out the stock area or what?
You have to love those, the strongest lowers there are IMO. I thought there was someone that made CF receivers, maybe christianson arms? But I seem to recall their CF guns not really being very light. |
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