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Posted: 9/19/2015 1:19:40 PM EDT
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I am fine tunning my first build and I am just curious as to how my ejection pattern
looks to you guys. I have the JP SCS Installed with a none adjustable gas block and a JP FMOS BCG just to be specific. I got the JP SCS With the different springs kit to tune it. I'm ejecting I think right at 3 o clock should I keep it there or should I try a 5 lbs heavier spring rate and see what happens? I've shot, .223 nosler defense 40gr, American Eagle 5.56 55gr and some Hornady match. 223 I think that was in the 70gr range. All of this cycled 3 rounds in all of my mags and locked the BCG back when empty. They didn't have tula on hand so I couldn't shoot that. I want it to be reliable but finally tuned if that makes sense. Should I get any other ammo to shoot for comparison? The selection I choose was basically what was o. The shelf at my range. Camera phone video sorry. video link |
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Quoted:
The ejection chart is used to diagnose when there is a problem with the rifle, if your rifle works then don't worry about it. There's no need to obsess over ejection angle. I get it I was just trying to determine if I could use a heavier spring rate to reduce recoil. I am a newb so I could be wrong in my thinking. The reality is that there is hardly any recoil now and training will probably make it feel like even less. I'm a tinkerer, once I stop I get board and move on to other things lol. |
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Quoted:
This. If the brass comes out of the gun, it's ejecting in the right place. Quoted:
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The ejection chart is used to diagnose when there is a problem with the rifle, if your rifle works then don't worry about it. There's no need to obsess over ejection angle. This. If the brass comes out of the gun, it's ejecting in the right place. +1 That chart has away of creating worry about your stick when there may be no problem at all. As far as your goal for wanting to fine tune your rig and create a weapon that has minimal felt recoil, there are many more aspects to the rifle that will influence this, and to really achieve optimal advice for such goals, it may be beneficial to see the full spec sheet for the build as this will indicate muzzle device, buffer weight, GLS, BCG weight, hand guard weight, weight distribution, etc. of the weapon. Once all of those are out of the way, then I would go about looking at spring rates. |
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Quoted:
+1 That chart has away of creating worry about your stick when there may be no problem at all. As far as your goal for wanting to fine tune your rig and create a weapon that has minimal felt recoil, there are many more aspects to the rifle that will influence this, and to really achieve optimal advice for such goals, it may be beneficial to see the full spec sheet for the build as this will indicate muzzle device, buffer weight, GLS, BCG weight, hand guard weight, weight distribution, etc. of the weapon. Once all of those are out of the way, then I would go about looking at spring rates. Quoted:
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The ejection chart is used to diagnose when there is a problem with the rifle, if your rifle works then don't worry about it. There's no need to obsess over ejection angle. This. If the brass comes out of the gun, it's ejecting in the right place. +1 That chart has away of creating worry about your stick when there may be no problem at all. As far as your goal for wanting to fine tune your rig and create a weapon that has minimal felt recoil, there are many more aspects to the rifle that will influence this, and to really achieve optimal advice for such goals, it may be beneficial to see the full spec sheet for the build as this will indicate muzzle device, buffer weight, GLS, BCG weight, hand guard weight, weight distribution, etc. of the weapon. Once all of those are out of the way, then I would go about looking at spring rates. I've read up good bit on how the AR works and different aspects and variables like adjustable bcg or gas blocks so I'm not totally ignorant. Bcg weight slams back and the buffer tries to stop it without bottoming out and so forth. Let's change this up and go a different direction. What should I be feeling for or trying to achieve when attempting to choose the best spring rate for my AR? I have five different springs and they are all five pounds different. I know I want to keep the bcg from bottoming out and I want the bcg to lock back when the mag is empty any other tips. Link to my build |
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Quoted:
I've read up good bit on how the AR works and different aspects and variables like adjustable bcg or gas blocks so I'm not totally ignorant. Bcg weight slams back and the buffer tries to stop it without bottoming out and so forth. Let's change this up and go a different direction. What should I be feeling for or trying to achieve when attempting to choose the best spring rate for my AR? I have five different springs and they are all five pounds different. I know I want to keep the bcg from bottoming out and I want the bcg to lock back when the mag is empty any other tips. Link to my build Quoted:
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The ejection chart is used to diagnose when there is a problem with the rifle, if your rifle works then don't worry about it. There's no need to obsess over ejection angle. This. If the brass comes out of the gun, it's ejecting in the right place. +1 That chart has away of creating worry about your stick when there may be no problem at all. As far as your goal for wanting to fine tune your rig and create a weapon that has minimal felt recoil, there are many more aspects to the rifle that will influence this, and to really achieve optimal advice for such goals, it may be beneficial to see the full spec sheet for the build as this will indicate muzzle device, buffer weight, GLS, BCG weight, hand guard weight, weight distribution, etc. of the weapon. Once all of those are out of the way, then I would go about looking at spring rates. I've read up good bit on how the AR works and different aspects and variables like adjustable bcg or gas blocks so I'm not totally ignorant. Bcg weight slams back and the buffer tries to stop it without bottoming out and so forth. Let's change this up and go a different direction. What should I be feeling for or trying to achieve when attempting to choose the best spring rate for my AR? I have five different springs and they are all five pounds different. I know I want to keep the bcg from bottoming out and I want the bcg to lock back when the mag is empty any other tips. Link to my build The "common wisdom" (interpret that as you will) is to use the heaviest buffer that will lock back with your weakest ammo. Quoted:
Please make that damned pie chart go away. If the brass gets out of the gun with every shot then call it good. The left side always gives me a chuckle |
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The only shooters that need to concern themselves with this are match/service rifle shooters. First it says something about the consistency of your (re)load. Second it makes picking up your spent brass easier.
And unless you only weight 80 pounds, why would anyone be concerned with felt recoil on an AR shooting .223/5.56? |
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Quoted:
I've read up good bit on how the AR works and different aspects and variables like adjustable bcg or gas blocks so I'm not totally ignorant. Bcg weight slams back and the buffer tries to stop it without bottoming out and so forth. Let's change this up and go a different direction. What should I be feeling for or trying to achieve when attempting to choose the best spring rate for my AR? I have five different springs and they are all five pounds different. I know I want to keep the bcg from bottoming out and I want the bcg to lock back when the mag is empty any other tips. Link to my build To me, the BCG does not "slam" back. With hotter ammunition, the carrier will go back faster than with lighter ammunition, but again, it's not like you're shooting a .444 Marlin or something. The bumper on the rear of your buffer is SUPPOSED to bottom out. It absorbs the harshest part of the carrier movement, like it's designed to. The carrier, pushing on the buffer, can't really "bottom out." The real issue is matching your buffer and spring to the gas system on the gun and the ammunition you're running. Going heavier on the buffer or spring will slow down the carrier speed, which typically moves your ejection backward. Your JP spring system is the cat's pajamas for some things, but it's pretty complicated to tune. And the large polymer chunk at the rear also helps reduce the impact at the rearmost part of carrier travel. I think one issue you're having is that you built a highly customized gun your first go. What you should be "feeling for" is basically the way a standard spring and buffer move with your chosen ammunition, and then deciding what sort of tweak to do. If you don't know what a basic AR feels like, you can't judge whether you need this or that, or something else...or nothing fancy and just stock parts. Even if you have plenty of experience with other ARs, your relatively exotic 13.7" barrel and mid-length gas system are going to be quite different from anything else you've fired in terms of cyclic operation - and how it "feels" with various ammunition. There's nothing "wrong" with any of your choices, but putting all of them together in a first build makes it hard to tease out what part is having which effect. That's just my 2¢, but I think its the direction that will give you the most enjoyment out of that rifle. |
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Quoted:
I've read up good bit on how the AR works and different aspects and variables like adjustable bcg or gas blocks so I'm not totally ignorant. Bcg weight slams back and the buffer tries to stop it without bottoming out and so forth. Let's change this up and go a different direction. What should I be feeling for or trying to achieve when attempting to choose the best spring rate for my AR? I have five different springs and they are all five pounds different. I know I want to keep the bcg from bottoming out and I want the bcg to lock back when the mag is empty any other tips. Link to my build Quoted:
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The ejection chart is used to diagnose when there is a problem with the rifle, if your rifle works then don't worry about it. There's no need to obsess over ejection angle. This. If the brass comes out of the gun, it's ejecting in the right place. +1 That chart has away of creating worry about your stick when there may be no problem at all. As far as your goal for wanting to fine tune your rig and create a weapon that has minimal felt recoil, there are many more aspects to the rifle that will influence this, and to really achieve optimal advice for such goals, it may be beneficial to see the full spec sheet for the build as this will indicate muzzle device, buffer weight, GLS, BCG weight, hand guard weight, weight distribution, etc. of the weapon. Once all of those are out of the way, then I would go about looking at spring rates. I've read up good bit on how the AR works and different aspects and variables like adjustable bcg or gas blocks so I'm not totally ignorant. Bcg weight slams back and the buffer tries to stop it without bottoming out and so forth. Let's change this up and go a different direction. What should I be feeling for or trying to achieve when attempting to choose the best spring rate for my AR? I have five different springs and they are all five pounds different. I know I want to keep the bcg from bottoming out and I want the bcg to lock back when the mag is empty any other tips. Link to my build Honestly? Just use the standard carbine spring and a carbine or H buffer. Tinkering with stuff trying to get that last % of recoil reduction or whatever isn't worth the hassle IMO. A linear comp like the KX5 is the worst choice you could have made for reducing recoil impulse anyway. The BCG isn't going to bottom out and damage anything, the buffer has a soft bumper on it to prevent anything like that happening when the buffer reaches the end of the tube. You're not going to prevent if from bottoming out and even if you managed to do it you'd have serious reliability issues. |
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Quoted:
Honestly? Just use the standard carbine spring and a carbine or H buffer. Tinkering with stuff trying to get that last % of recoil reduction or whatever isn't worth the hassle IMO. A linear comp like the KX5 is the worst choice you could have made for reducing recoil impulse anyway. The BCG isn't going to bottom out and damage anything, the buffer has a soft bumper on it to prevent anything like that happening when the buffer reaches the end of the tube. You're not going to prevent if from bottoming out and even if you managed to do it you'd have serious reliability issues. Quoted:
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The ejection chart is used to diagnose when there is a problem with the rifle, if your rifle works then don't worry about it. There's no need to obsess over ejection angle. This. If the brass comes out of the gun, it's ejecting in the right place. +1 That chart has away of creating worry about your stick when there may be no problem at all. As far as your goal for wanting to fine tune your rig and create a weapon that has minimal felt recoil, there are many more aspects to the rifle that will influence this, and to really achieve optimal advice for such goals, it may be beneficial to see the full spec sheet for the build as this will indicate muzzle device, buffer weight, GLS, BCG weight, hand guard weight, weight distribution, etc. of the weapon. Once all of those are out of the way, then I would go about looking at spring rates. I've read up good bit on how the AR works and different aspects and variables like adjustable bcg or gas blocks so I'm not totally ignorant. Bcg weight slams back and the buffer tries to stop it without bottoming out and so forth. Let's change this up and go a different direction. What should I be feeling for or trying to achieve when attempting to choose the best spring rate for my AR? I have five different springs and they are all five pounds different. I know I want to keep the bcg from bottoming out and I want the bcg to lock back when the mag is empty any other tips. Link to my build Honestly? Just use the standard carbine spring and a carbine or H buffer. Tinkering with stuff trying to get that last % of recoil reduction or whatever isn't worth the hassle IMO. A linear comp like the KX5 is the worst choice you could have made for reducing recoil impulse anyway. The BCG isn't going to bottom out and damage anything, the buffer has a soft bumper on it to prevent anything like that happening when the buffer reaches the end of the tube. You're not going to prevent if from bottoming out and even if you managed to do it you'd have serious reliability issues. Exactly my thoughts after reading your build sheet... While i completely understand what you are trying to accomplish, your parts selection in some areas are detrimental to the ultimate goal imho. You admitted in your initial build sheet that you became obsessive over the weight of the rifle over the course of the build and stated its weight unloaded. That 13.7 middy is something I am not familiar with and have no eperience on how it "feels" when it shoots. I DO, however, know how a 14.5" middy shoots with a spikes dynacomp - ridiculously smooth and thats with a standard carbine buffer. That rifle also had more forward weight with a full pic rail instead of a modular lightweight hand guard. I supposed it seems with your build you want your cake and eat it too, with being as lightweight as possible, but also as light as possible. Nothing wrong with it, but with what you're hoping to achieve, I think you're toeing the line of reliability. Its important to remember that if you DO find that sweet spot of reliability without abusing the parts as you are describing above with the torture they go through, If you do any extensive travel with this rifle into a different elevation, you may run into some issues with your finely tuned rifle. Please understand, Im not trying to bash your build. To each his own, but I think looking at the bigger picture is necessary. |
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I get it guys, thanks for all the great impute and knowledge. I don't want to over tune it as I was trying to do because I do want it to be reliable in all situations. I still can't stop tinkering though. I'm going to swap the 15" rail for a 13.5" and change the kx5 to a B.E meyers 249f. Select the standard weight spring shoot all sorts of ammo and if it runs good I'll let it go. Then I'll start my next build and play around with weight and tuning lol.
Thanks again for all the great info in just never satisfied and I've always gotta be messing around. |
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