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Posted: 6/23/2014 7:47:57 AM EDT
| Will a clamshell suffice when installing/clocking a muzzle device on a barreled/railed upper? Getting the rail on straight was a pain, and I'd rather not remove it to install the comp. I'd rather not spend the money on a Reaction Rod if it's not absolutely needed. |
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Will a clamshell suffice when installing/clocking a muzzle device on a barreled/railed upper? Getting the rail on straight was a pain, and I'd rather not remove it to install the comp. I'd rather not spend the money on a Reaction Rod if it's not absolutely needed. No. Clamp the barrel or buy reaction rod. |
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Maybe, but maybe not. Why run the risk? Just get some plastic, rubber, or wood jaw inserts and clamp that barrel in a bench vice. If you don't have one, and you are doing this kind of work, you need one anyway. At least go and use one belonging to a friend.
Clamshells have their good purposes. I like the Brownells one I have, but would not use it to withstand the torque of a muzzle device removal or installation at the other end of the barrel. What you propose is not their best use. |
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Maybe, but maybe not. Why run the risk? Just get some plastic, rubber, or wood jaw inserts and clamp that barrel in a bench vice. If you don't have one, and you are doing this kind of work, you need one anyway. At least go and use one belonging to a friend. Clamshells have their good purposes. I like the Brownells one I have, but would not use it to withstand the torque of a muzzle device removal or installation at the other end of the barrel. What you propose is not their best use. This is not an option since there's not enough barrel showing. |
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I'm not saying it's the right way, but I have done it using both a clam-shell block and regular upper receiver block. I did not have a problem with either method, but I've read stories of people who have. If you do so, proceed at your own risk.
This was before I had a Geissele reaction rod. Now that I have it, it's my main method of building/working on my uppers. |
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Quoted: Thanks for that immensely helpful bit of Internet wisdom.  Quoted: Quoted: Guess you should have torqued on the muzzle device before installing the rail. Thanks for that immensely helpful bit of Internet wisdom. Glad to help. What model of rail did you install? |
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Thanks for that immensely helpful bit of Internet wisdom. Quoted:
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Guess you should have torqued on the muzzle device before installing the rail. Thanks for that immensely helpful bit of Internet wisdom. He's just being real & he's right. You asked, afterall. The correct method for installing a muzzle device calls for clamping your barrel in a set of barrel vices. Don't torque on your muzzle device with the barrel secured in the upper w/out barrel clamps/vices. Don't be cheap or lazy. Either remove the rail & clamp the barrel or obtain the Reaction Rod. Don't risk twisting your barrel in the upper or shearing your barrel extension index pin. |
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If getting the rail straight was that much of a PITA, invest in a good old A4 carry handle. Then pull off the rail, clamp the barrel, torque on your MD, and reinstall the rail using the carry handle to align it with the receiver.
If that isn't possible, there's always the "Between the knees" technique, but it won't be perfect.(Remember to clear the gun. No, I don't think you're that stupid, but I've met some real... Characters) Maybe have an actual smith who's got the proper equipment and armorer's training do it for you. Shouldn't cost more than twenty, thirty bucks if they're local. Good way to support a small business. Or just bite the bullet and buy a reaction rod, save yourself some trouble for the next go 'round. Best of luck, mate. |
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Thanks for that immensely helpful bit of Internet wisdom. Quoted:
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Guess you should have torqued on the muzzle device before installing the rail. Thanks for that immensely helpful bit of Internet wisdom. best option, clamp barrel you can clamshell it but risk twisting the barrel shearing the pin etc, etc. |
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He's just being real & he's right. You asked, afterall. The correct method for installing a muzzle device calls for clamping your barrel in a set of barrel vices. Don't torque on your muzzle device with the barrel secured in the upper w/out barrel clamps/vices. Don't be cheap or lazy. Either remove the rail & clamp the barrel or obtain the Reaction Rod. Don't risk twisting your barrel in the upper or shearing your barrel extension index pin. Quoted:
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Guess you should have torqued on the muzzle device before installing the rail. Thanks for that immensely helpful bit of Internet wisdom. He's just being real & he's right. You asked, afterall. The correct method for installing a muzzle device calls for clamping your barrel in a set of barrel vices. Don't torque on your muzzle device with the barrel secured in the upper w/out barrel clamps/vices. Don't be cheap or lazy. Either remove the rail & clamp the barrel or obtain the Reaction Rod. Don't risk twisting your barrel in the upper or shearing your barrel extension index pin. No, I asked if a clamshell was sufficient for the job, a question that only needed a simple "yes" or "no." He offered nothing useful except some Monday morning quarterbacking about what I should have done prior to this point. |
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No. Clamp the barrel or buy reaction rod. Quoted:
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Will a clamshell suffice when installing/clocking a muzzle device on a barreled/railed upper? Getting the rail on straight was a pain, and I'd rather not remove it to install the comp. I'd rather not spend the money on a Reaction Rod if it's not absolutely needed. No. Clamp the barrel or buy reaction rod. Yep. Buy aluminum barrel blocks & get some rosin powder from a bowling alley to prevent it from spinning in the blocks. |
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Yep. Buy aluminum barrel blocks & get some rosin powder from a bowling alley to prevent it from spinning in the blocks. Quoted:
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Will a clamshell suffice when installing/clocking a muzzle device on a barreled/railed upper? Getting the rail on straight was a pain, and I'd rather not remove it to install the comp. I'd rather not spend the money on a Reaction Rod if it's not absolutely needed. No. Clamp the barrel or buy reaction rod. Yep. Buy aluminum barrel blocks & get some rosin powder from a bowling alley to prevent it from spinning in the blocks. a section of garden hose works too... |
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I have done it before with a clamshell and while it got the job done, it wasn't easy or pretty. The last time I almost ruined the upper as I forgot to put the piece that goes in place of the BCG in and all that torquing on it bent the hell out of the ejection port so much that the bcg couldn't go back in. Fortunately I was able to fix it with a block of wood and 30 minutes of bending it back. I bought a reaction rod after that and it makes barrel and muzzle installs so easy and you don't have to worry about ruining anything. Like someone else said, if you don't want to keep it, sell it on the EE for $10-15 less than you paid and figure you got your money's worth out of it. If you plan on building more uppers in the future it is a must have. If it's a one time only thing, you can get by without it, but you better be careful or you might mess something up and wish you had spent the $90 on that instead of breaking an index pin on a $300 barrel or scratching up the surface of an expensive billet upper.
Edit: Hell even if you never build another upper it's still a useful tool to have. I like having all the necessary tools to work on or repair my guns should something break or need to be replaced. I keep a tool box full of AR tools and various extra springs, detents, pins, BCG, stock furniture and other replacement parts that came with aftermarket accessories. If any of my ARs break, I have the parts to make it work again until I can get an exact replacement part, hell I even have a spare 16" barrel laying around. |
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Dude if you have a suppressor buy a damn rod and be done with it. And don't be a dick. Why, because I asked a simple, specific question that some people seem to be unwilling to answer? I have the clamshell and simply wanted to know if it would work. The majority have said there's a chance of damaging parts if I use it, and that's the answer I needed. And Dude, I bought the suppressor 20 years ago. I don't have near the disposable income now as I had at that time. |
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He's just being real & he's right. You asked, afterall. The correct method for installing a muzzle device calls for clamping your barrel in a set of barrel vices. Don't torque on your muzzle device with the barrel secured in the upper w/out barrel clamps/vices. Don't be cheap or lazy. Either remove the rail & clamp the barrel or obtain the Reaction Rod. Don't risk twisting your barrel in the upper or shearing your barrel extension index pin. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Guess you should have torqued on the muzzle device before installing the rail. Thanks for that immensely helpful bit of Internet wisdom. He's just being real & he's right. You asked, afterall. The correct method for installing a muzzle device calls for clamping your barrel in a set of barrel vices. Don't torque on your muzzle device with the barrel secured in the upper w/out barrel clamps/vices. Don't be cheap or lazy. Either remove the rail & clamp the barrel or obtain the Reaction Rod. Don't risk twisting your barrel in the upper or shearing your barrel extension index pin. This....don't wanna spend the money to not ruin your upper?.....hometown forum...see if someone will lend you the proper equipment.... |
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Guess I don't understand how ~30ft/lbs of torque is going to break the index pin of a barrel. We hold the receiver to torque barrel nuts to almost twice that with no issues. That is an apples to oranges comparison. When you tighten the barrel nut the force is on the barrel nut and receiver. In some cases the extension twists with the torsional force, but the lion's share is on the nut and receiver. Flash hider is all barrel. But securing the receiver in the clam shell and tightening the FH, the force is on the barrel and therefore all the force is transferred to the index pin. I have used the clam shell when I knew it would only be about 1/4 to 1/2 turn on the FH to get it lined up. Otherwise i use the barrel clamps I bought for just such a task. |
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Isn't it possible to shear the index pin using the reaction rod when installing and removing muzzle devices? No. The reaction rod slides into the extension and holds the barrel in place with the extension. The index pin is completely removed from the equation, as is the receiver. |
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That is an apples to oranges comparison. When you tighten the barrel nut the force is on the barrel nut and receiver. In some cases the extension twists with the torsional force, but the lion's share is on the nut and receiver. Flash hider is all barrel. But securing the receiver in the clam shell and tightening the FH, the force is on the barrel and therefore all the force is transferred to the index pin. I have used the clam shell when I knew it would only be about 1/4 to 1/2 turn on the FH to get it lined up. Otherwise i use the barrel clamps I bought for just such a task. Quoted:
Quoted:
Guess I don't understand how ~30ft/lbs of torque is going to break the index pin of a barrel. We hold the receiver to torque barrel nuts to almost twice that with no issues. That is an apples to oranges comparison. When you tighten the barrel nut the force is on the barrel nut and receiver. In some cases the extension twists with the torsional force, but the lion's share is on the nut and receiver. Flash hider is all barrel. But securing the receiver in the clam shell and tightening the FH, the force is on the barrel and therefore all the force is transferred to the index pin. I have used the clam shell when I knew it would only be about 1/4 to 1/2 turn on the FH to get it lined up. Otherwise i use the barrel clamps I bought for just such a task. Last barrel nut I installed, the barrel was in the vice (flats of a SOCOM barrel), I doubt I screwed anything up, but it does make me wonder. |
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Last barrel nut I installed, the barrel was in the vice (flats of a SOCOM barrel), I doubt I screwed anything up, but it does make me wonder. Quoted:
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Quoted:
Guess I don't understand how ~30ft/lbs of torque is going to break the index pin of a barrel. We hold the receiver to torque barrel nuts to almost twice that with no issues. That is an apples to oranges comparison. When you tighten the barrel nut the force is on the barrel nut and receiver. In some cases the extension twists with the torsional force, but the lion's share is on the nut and receiver. Flash hider is all barrel. But securing the receiver in the clam shell and tightening the FH, the force is on the barrel and therefore all the force is transferred to the index pin. I have used the clam shell when I knew it would only be about 1/4 to 1/2 turn on the FH to get it lined up. Otherwise i use the barrel clamps I bought for just such a task. Last barrel nut I installed, the barrel was in the vice (flats of a SOCOM barrel), I doubt I screwed anything up, but it does make me wonder. Nope, that is another way of doing it. By securing the barrel you can install a receiver or a FH without any issues. |
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Guess I don't understand how ~30ft/lbs of torque is going to break the index pin of a barrel. We hold the receiver to torque barrel nuts to almost twice that with no issues. Unless there is an existing issue 30 ft/lbs will not cause a problem. Removing the muzzle device is where most of the ones who have problems seem to get in trouble. I think I saw at least one post where someone got into trouble installing his comp. A person would think anyone with half sense would know better, however there is a steady trickle of people with no training or experience who get themselves in trouble. |
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Brownell’s has an equivalent to the reaction rod for way less money. It does not have the flats for a vise; instead it is setup for ½” drive tools. I'm following this topic closely as I want to be able to change barrels and muzzle devices in the future too. What is the difference between the reaction rod and the Brownell's rod? |
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I'm following this topic closely as I want to be able to change barrels and muzzle devices in the future too. What is the difference between the reaction rod and the Brownell's rod? Quoted:
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Brownell’s has an equivalent to the reaction rod for way less money. It does not have the flats for a vise; instead it is setup for ½” drive tools. I'm following this topic closely as I want to be able to change barrels and muzzle devices in the future too. What is the difference between the reaction rod and the Brownell's rod? Did some googling and look what I found: link on ARFCOM |
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And I would thank you if: A) Your answer had anything to do with the question B) I didn't like to keep the muzzle device easily removable for my non-QD suppressor. Quoted:
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Peel washer and rockset. You are welcome. And I would thank you if: A) Your answer had anything to do with the question B) I didn't like to keep the muzzle device easily removable for my non-QD suppressor. If you want an easily removeable device and don't want to go the vice/rod route, I would just use a Vortex. You just hand tighten it, and it's about an RCH away from hiding flash as well as the AAC and BE Meyers options. Of course if the device you want is a brake, I don't know what to tell you. |
| I have both Geissele reaction rods, before that I used an old leather belt to clamp the barrel in a vise, once, and while that worked, I really can't recommend it. Get at least the less expensive Brownell's reaction rod copy. It's the only way to do what you want. Don't use the clamshell, or you may be buying another receiver. |
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If you want an easily removeable device and don't want to go the vice/rod route, I would just use a Vortex. You just hand tighten it, and it's about an RCH away from hiding flash as well as the AAC and BE Meyers options. Of course if the device you want is a brake, I don't know what to tell you. Quoted:
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Peel washer and rockset. You are welcome. And I would thank you if: A) Your answer had anything to do with the question B) I didn't like to keep the muzzle device easily removable for my non-QD suppressor. If you want an easily removeable device and don't want to go the vice/rod route, I would just use a Vortex. You just hand tighten it, and it's about an RCH away from hiding flash as well as the AAC and BE Meyers options. Of course if the device you want is a brake, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, I've got four of them right now. This new one will be the first muzzle device that I've ever used that needs to be clocked, hence the OP. |
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What did people do before the reaction rod was invented? Do whatever they did. I've built more than one sub moa upper using a clamshell with a BCG in it. Guess I've just been lucky  Shim Kits... http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrel-hardware/washers/muzzle-device-shim-kits-prod60403.aspx Peel Washers and Rockset And yes we are back to where this went off the rails. 
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I'm following this topic closely as I want to be able to change barrels and muzzle devices in the future too. What is the difference between the reaction rod and the Brownell's rod? Quoted:
Quoted:
Brownell’s has an equivalent to the reaction rod for way less money. It does not have the flats for a vise; instead it is setup for ½” drive tools. I'm following this topic closely as I want to be able to change barrels and muzzle devices in the future too. What is the difference between the reaction rod and the Brownell's rod? It does not have the flats for a vise; instead it is setup for ½” drive tools. |
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