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Posted: 7/22/2013 8:45:50 AM EDT
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I have been lurking for awhile now and I believe between using the search tool, watching youtube armorer videos and casually reading here I have a pretty good idea of what I am getting into and what I want to build.
Where I am currently at: Parts/Tools Spikes lower CMMG LPK Lower vice block Complete set of Roll pin punches Rubber/Plastic/Metal interchangeable hammer AR multi tool barrel nut wrench AR15.com Lower building instructions (and the 100s of videos out there) Lots of scotch tape to prevent scratching stuff up **Will be getting more tools as I get into working on the upper** All I have installed so far is the magazine release and trigger guard because my craftsman set didn't have the smallest 3/32 roll pin punch. So I stopped until I got the correct tool instead of doing something stupid. So now that you know where I am at, I want to get a few assumptions confirmed: 1) Not sure if I need an answer to this but I am just going to state it as something I am doing. If wrong please inform me. I will be lubing every part that is a friction point. Basic gun lube on the roll pins helps with getting them into place. When I get to the barrel nut I will want to use anti-seize assembly grease. 2) It doesn't matter if my barrel is a carbine/mid/rifle length gas system (mine is going to be mid). I can use any quad rail (I want to use a rifle length) as long as I utilize a low profile gas block I should be good to go with say a rifle length YHM Diamond Rail on my mid length gas system 16" barrel. 3) I have searched high and low if I could get one of the 1 in 8 twist S&W M&P barrels. I like 1 in 8 because it seems to be the most versatile in what grain size it can handle. I can't find any distributor and S&W has not responded to my requests. So I am going to concentrate on finding a 1 in 8 twist barrel from a reputable manufacturer (more than enough resources here to find that). 4) When it comes to color of parts (Black, FDE, OD, etc) there is no guarantee that they will be exact matches between manufacturers or even with the same manufacturer. I should anticipate that if I want to go with a two tone colored AR platform that I will just have to live with slight variation. 5) I have come to the conclusion that in regard to pistol grips, fore end grips, stocks, sights and rails it is pretty much personal preference and since I am new to the AR platform I should just buy what I think I will like and expect that I may want to switch it out down the road. Stick to reputable companies and I can get good information by searching to help make my decisions. When in doubt bite the bullet and go for higher quality to avoid buyers remorse. 6) It is best practice when I believe I have completed the rifle to take it to a gunsmith to function/safety check it. Well there is my first post. Wish me luck on my build and I will post pictures as I am going. I would very much appreciate any constructive criticism or advice that you might have. Thanks! |
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1) Not sure if I need an answer to this but I am just going to state it as something I am doing. If wrong please inform me. I will be lubing every part that is a friction point. Basic gun lube on the roll pins helps with getting them into place. When I get to the barrel nut I will want to use anti-seize assembly grease.
--I would move all friction parts a few times to expose the shine, and then just lightly lube those points. When initially installing takedown pins into the lower, I always put a tiny drop grease onto the pin so it can move a little, the early part of its life tends to be a bit stiff(in my experience). 2) It doesn't matter if my barrel is a carbine/mid/rifle length gas system (mine is going to be mid). I can use any quad rail (I want to use a rifle length) as long as I utilize a low profile gas block I should be good to go with say a rifle length YHM Diamond Rail on my mid length gas system 16" barrel. --You will be fine with almost any quad rail/handguard as long as you have a low profile(either pinned or grub screw gas block). I have a Yankee Hill clamping gas block that has given be a bit of a headache on narrower handguards(it is low profile but the bottom is thicker). 3) I have searched high and low if I could get one of the 1 in 8 twist S&W M&P barrels. I like 1 in 8 because it seems to be the most versatile in what grain size it can handle. I can't find any distributor and S&W has not responded to my requests. So I am going to concentrate on finding a 1 in 8 twist barrel from a reputable manufacturer (more than enough resources here to find that). --You have to either wait out the panic, or buy what's available. Nada input on this. 4) When it comes to color of parts (Black, FDE, OD, etc) there is no guarantee that they will be exact matches between manufacturers or even with the same manufacturer. I should anticipate that if I want to go with a two tone colored AR platform that I will just have to live with slight variation. --Correct, a lot of places make OD green the same color as Magpul's Foliage green. Magpul's OD green is very dark. Black tends to be universal, and only cameras can pick up the difference in anodizing from your upper/lower receivers. I actually used Moly Resin on one of mine, and made the rifle Foliage Green. It matches Magpul almost exactly. 5) I have come to the conclusion that in regard to pistol grips, fore end grips, stocks, sights and rails it is pretty much personal preference and since I am new to the AR platform I should just buy what I think I will like and expect that I may want to switch it out down the road. Stick to reputable companies and I can get good information by searching to help make my decisions. When in doubt bite the bullet and go for higher quality to avoid buyers remorse. --I have a box of different grips. I buy one I like, I find another I like, and I sometimes end up switching to give a different feel. If you're an enthusiast--do yourself a favor, just keep what you buy even if you have other variants. I can't tell you how many times I've swapped a part just "because." As for sights, get reliable and durable ones. 6) It is best practice when I believe I have completed the rifle to take it to a gunsmith to function/safety check it. --Cycle safety several times, cycle bolt, test trigger, etc. All you'll do is pay a bill to have someone tell you it's awesome. Chances are good that if you got it together, it'll be correct, since most parts only fit in one place, one way. The only rule is, once you build it, you must post a picture. And if your smoking hot wife happens to be holding it we won't hold that against you either. |
| I think you are on the right track brother. Just remember, if it feels like you're really forcing something, STOP. You're probably doing it wrong and will break or scratch the hell out of something. (I did) Definitely think out your equipment purchases. I have a big box full of cheap shit that I thought would "work for now". Save your coin and do it right the first time. If you can, get your hands on some various AR's and feel em up. If you have some friends with AR's see if they'll let you run their guns a little. What works for other's may not work for you and vice versa. Good luck and have fun! It's addictive. |
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chmodx thank you for taking the time to look through the list.
1) Great advice to work the friction parts a bit then lightly lubing where it shines. Same thing I do with my pistols in the spots where the finish has worn. 2) The YHM clamping gas block I believe is the one I have in my parts list. I will check to see if I can find something with a bit more clearance. 3) I really think that S&W just doesn't offer the barrel at all for sale. My guess is that I would have to find something second hand from someone who changed the barrel out on their M&P15. I don't have a good reason but I would rather have a NIB barrel. 4) & 5) Thanks for confirming 6) There is something about firing a firearm I built that scares me, haha. I have done a trigger job on my M&P 40c but that just isn't the same. I have read several places where they say to go through a standard function check and head space check and I should be good to go. My girlfriend and I regularly shoot our M&P 40c and M&P 22 so I am certain I can snag a shot of her with the AR. |
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JOEGUNNER
So I have only installed those two parts and already made a small mistake. I had put the trigger guard on backwards and couldn't figure out why the roll pin wouldn't go in all the way. Embarrassing but hopefully that will shame me into paying more attention. I have read again and again on here about people saying they wished they just spent the money on better parts. I was going to go with an A2 style gas block front sights and one of those regular two piece hand guards to save some money but I know I want a full length quad rail and rail mounted flip up sight. So I will be getting those the first time out. It doesn't seem that I could go wrong with that choice. I shot my buddies Olympic Arms AR which from what I understand isn't exactly top tier (whatever that means). I loved it and knew I wanted an AR. Did my research and figured I would be much happier building my own. My LGS is great and hasn't gouged during this whole thing but availability has been a pain. They finally got some Spikes lowers in for $110 and I pulled the trigger on that an the CMMG LPK. They also have a box full of Stag bolts for $125 each so I will have the second hardest to find piece of the puzzle in my hands soon. |
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I would definitely advise the safety check – but go to your local gun store. From most of them now-a-days also build AR 15s and have advanced training. If you get a good conversation going often they will make sure your weapon is safe for free. It gives them future business as well. If you come in there looking for a gunsmith to do the work they will happily let you pay for the service.
For the barrel – if you cannot find the S&W you want – check out Bravo Company (BCM). There are very few people that will bad mouth their products or their price. From what I have heard (I tend to stay with Troy rails) – YHM hand guards require a special barrel nut and tool. If you are going this way, you should look at buying that tool over the armor’s wrench. The main thing you will use that for is barrel installation. (Most buffer tube “kits” I have gotten come with the castle nut wrench) The Gas block might be a tight fit – look into having thick leather scraps (like from an arts and crafts store) handy to help you hammer it into place without damaging the gas block or barrel. |
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You're putting a lot of thought in this so you'll likely do fine. Watch and rewatch the how-to videos and read the build articles. Time invested beforehand will make the build easier. Good parts make a difference too.
The lower is easy but you may want to buy a barreled upper, there's a huge selection and an AR "build" is all about selecting the parts YOU want, not necessarily assembling everything. Get a quality upper from BCM, Daniel Defense or even PSA as I doubt you could build something better for the same cost. Also uppers from good makers are test fired and inspected, which is more that most gunsmiths would do if you asked them to look at it. |
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OP, well done--you're much farther ahead than most on your first build. Take your time, and read read read.
A few suggestions from learning the hard way: 1. Get a good set of punches and they will last you. I use Lyman, and they sell a kit that comes with a nice little hammer, too, (has a brass side, and nylon side) It's like $40 shipped on Amazon prime. 2. Instead of a lower receiver vice block, get a clam shell type upper vise block from Brownells. Well worth the money, and the best way to not damage your upper. Running electrice tape on the contact points of the upper will eliminate any marks on the anodizing. 3. Use electric tape around the bolt catch pin as you drive it in. I *always* nail the side of the receiver if I dont, and scratch the thing up :) 4. I like to use AeroShell grease on not only the parts that require it (like barrel nuts), but other areas that thread such as muzzle device, and receiver extension. Threads nicer, keeps corrosion down on steel parts, and smells great! 5. Never never NEVER sell your tools, and always buy the best that you can afford. You WILL build many more AR's when the disease takes hold, and you may want to upgrade your rifle in the future. 6. On tools, never try to "jimmy" it. Always use the tool that is made specifically for the task at hand. There is a reason they exist. Also, always use a torque wrench when installing the barrel and follow proper torquing procedures (available on AR15.com and elsewhere). 7. ALWAYS post pics of completed builds :) Have fun, and welcome! |
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Quentin:
I appreciate the advice. I have looked into the prices of some of those barreled uppers and for my build there is a couple problems. First, the price is just far too much. I get the impression that I can build a comparable upper for far less. The second problem is that it is difficult to find a complete upper that has a 1/8 twist. Most seem to be 1/7 twist. I don't know the quality of PSA but DD and BCM are well known... just expensive. I think for me I want to build from scratch. I do appreciate the suggestion though. |
Sounds good, you have far surpassed most new builders in your research 
Uppers are easy to build. Hell so are lowers, but with the right tools building an upper is less work than changing a tire. Use moly grease, not anti seize, avoid anything with graphite and you should be ok. I would personally skip any "quad" rail right from the get go, go modular like a Troy Alpha and you will be ahead of the game. I would also personally skip YHM rails, they are wide, comparatively heavy, and SHARP. Keep weight and balance always in the front of your mind. Go with a lightweight barrel, go with a lightweight rail, keep in mind if you get a quad rail you have to cover those vast stretches of unused rail with covers (another reason I don't like quad rails) ounces add up QUICK. Consider using a low profile adjustable gas block, this will help you tune your gas system for a soft shooter from the start. This will allow you to use a lighter buffer, and if you decide to a lighter mass BCG, a tuned system with little reciprocating mass will feel like an airgun. Combine that with a slimmed down profile and no extra weight and you will appreciate the extra time and thought put into it. The most important add on you can buy is a 22lr clone upper or conversion kit. Eventually 22lr will show back up and then you can train all day for pennies. Also black guns are boring, krylon is your friend
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That Troy Alpha rail is a beautiful piece of kit and only slightly more expensive. So there are smaller panels that come with it that I can fit to the side and the top rail is a continuous permanent fixture. I like it a lot.
I know CMMG makes 22lr conversion kit. I was looking at M&P 15-22 and obviously a Ruger 10/22 as my first rifle but decided to put my money into an AR since my LGS has ammo and the lowers/BCG were back in stock at good prices. Adjustable gas blocks are not something I considered or have I done any research into. From what I understand the very nature of the mid-length results in it being less likely to over gas and the added length between sights is appealing. |
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Quoted:
That Troy Alpha rail is a beautiful piece of kit and only slightly more expensive. So there are smaller panels that come with it that I can fit to the side and the top rail is a continuous permanent fixture. I like it a lot. I know CMMG makes 22lr conversion kit. I was looking at M&P 15-22 and obviously a Ruger 10/22 as my first rifle but decided to put my money into an AR since my LGS has ammo and the lowers/BCG were back in stock at good prices. Adjustable gas blocks are not something I considered or have I done any research into. From what I understand the very nature of the mid-length results in it being less likely to over gas and the added length between sights is appealing. Mid length will be "softer" than a carbine at 16" or 14.5", I am not really talking about it being softer... I am talking about tuning your system, making your system run like a sewing machine with your ammo choice and the least amount of reciprocating mass possible. This will reduce recoil and reduce wear. Essentially making your rifle into the best it can be. This is more like a long term plan for a smooth shooter. It is cheaper to start with the long view than to buy stuff to get you by and upgrade over time. |
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This TM will help you assemble and function check your AR, and has what you need to know mechanically about the AR/M-Series Weapon. Checking headspace is super, super easy. Just need a jewelers hammer, vise, a 1/8th inch punch and a 1/16th inch punch to disassemble the bolt. Wrap the bolt in a shop rag before securing it in a vise. Use the 1/8th inch punch to push in the ejector while tapping the pin out that captures the ejector with the 1/16th inch punch. Then slowly ease the 1/8th inch punch off the ejector to not cause the ejector or ejector spring to fly into the air.
I checked just for the maximum headspace Colt allows in the chamber for 5.56 NATO; referred to as the "Colt II Field Gauge"; which of course my barrel is chambered for 5.56 NATO; Brownell's Field Gauge for 5.56 NATO uses the Colt II Field Gauge Spec. This is the gauge I own. It costs only $20; which is a whole lot-ah piece of mind versus having an over pressure spike that kB! (kabooms) your AR in your face. After shooting my first round, I inspected the cartridge for signs of over-pressure and any signs of the gas timing not being timed right. Which my AR is on par. As for the barrel's headspace is set when the manufacturer installs the barrel extension. This may be so, but headspace is from the bolt's face to the datum line in the chamber; so a manufacturer installed barrel extension is no guarantee of having the headspace within specification due to what people refer to as tolerance stacking. http://www.kdeguns.com/ar-manual/M4%2016%2023Pchange8.pdf |
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Thanks for the link to the function check. I will be getting to tools necessary to do that (the gauge). I want to build the upper from parts and I want to be safe.
Thanks to you guys I have made a few changes: 1) Handguard is going to be a troy modular. Midway even has them on sale right now. It makes too much sense to only put on rails where you need them. Plus just having the name 'Troy' makes the product amazing... right?  haha. Seriously though, it seems very practical.
2) I am going to get an adjustable low profile gas block. Not sure on brand yet. Getting the tax stamp for a silencer isn't in the plans but I don't want to limit myself from being able to make adjustments or get the silencer in the future. 3) I am now considering the 1 in 7 twist along with 1 in 8 now. I won't be getting 1 in 9. Right now I am looking at a 16" 1 in 8 twist Wilde Chamber barrel. It seems to have the most versatility with a lot of different ammo. It seems to me that whether I get .223 or 5.56 and whatever grain it is a 16" 1 in 8 melonite lined barrel and wilde chamber is probably going to shoot it with above average accuracy (I saw that but I don't have a baseline for what 'average' means haha). I would love input on this decision. My goal is to be able to grab whatever ammo is available and be able to adjust (my sights) for the grain size after a few shots and shoot with some decent accuracy. I am fully aware to achieve the best accuracy you build to a caliber and grain and get the appropriate parts. I am NOT doing that. I want acceptable->above average accuracy and amazing versatility with very few ammo limitations. I am aware there will probably be a brand/grain/etc bullet that will be optimal but in a climate and uncertain future where 5.56/.223 might get scarce again I want to be able to pick up a case of whatever I can find at the LGS/Walmart and be able to shoot it. I am not really into the SHTF doomsday scenarios but in the back of my head it makes sense for that too. 4) I order my buffer tube and stock friday. I am highly considering the VLTOR EMOD with matched mil spec buffer tube. I hear it is a bit heavier and will provide better balance against a front heavier weapon. Not to mention that I hear it is well made. The only thing is I haven't done enough research on buffers and if light/medium/heavy is a good thing for my purposes. That will definitely happen before I pull the trigger and buy it. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-VLTAEBK-MB Well that is it for now. Thank you everyone for your input. My confidence level is really high and I am very excited with each new step of this build. |
| Well the lower is together. Really not much trouble at all except that the take down pin is a REALLY snug fit. To the point where I had to hammer it into place. The more I work it with a hammer and punch in and out the better the fit. The rest of the built went perfect. Well, the trigger guard is not a great fit and rattles. A little rubber ring or some RTV will fix that. Maybe the MAGPUL trigger guard. Not sure. |
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Quoted:
Well the lower is together. Really not much trouble at all except that the take down pin is a REALLY snug fit. To the point where I had to hammer it into place. The more I work it with a hammer and punch in and out the better the fit. The rest of the built went perfect. Well, the trigger guard is not a great fit and rattles. A little rubber ring or some RTV will fix that. Maybe the MAGPUL trigger guard. Not sure. Congrats, at least that's your first milestone and it's done now. It only took me 34 years of being an AR owner before I started building my own about eight years ago now. I had plenty of experience taking out and installing the trigger group, grip, takedown pins, buttstocks, the only thing I have not done was to assemble the barrel to the upper receiver. When I started building I was building two AR at the same time, the first AR fixed stock rifle I built the lower half, the second one was a carbine which I built only the upper half and installed the buffer tube and buttstock to a factory built lower receiver. I was very careful building and took extra time, I only screwed up once when I lost a detent pin of the pivot pin on one of my lower receiver, I learned from that and used a clear plastic bag at the front of the receiver. Checked my headspace myself using my own gauges and checked safety, feeding and cycling, but when it was time to fire the first upper half that I built, I was holding the carbine with outstretched arm with my head very far from the firearm, after it fired and cycled fine then I shot it properly with my head on the buttstock. Got any pics? |
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Their barrels are very reasonable and they have the specifications I am looking for. I just realized I need to do my homework on fluting and its purpose. I looked at their 'smiley' fluting and I am guess it is just cosmetic?
Every time I think I have a good grasp on a part and all it's aspects I realize I don't know sh*t and need to do more searching. Question: I have found a few vendors that make barrels that fit my exact need. They aren't DD, MI, YHM, PSA, BCM, etc... they are similar to Black Hole Weaponry and are not companies that are widely talked about or used. I do my searching and will catch a 'mine is great' and rarely see anything negative. Is that what I will generally find... that most manufacturers of barrels make a great product? As long as I find my 16" - 1 in 8 - m4 FR - melonite or chrome lined - mid length gas barrel I will 99 times out of 100 be satisfied with what I have? I realize there probably is not an answer to that question. More just speaking out loud to myself. 
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Alright Went back through my build part list and here is where I am at:
AR Stoner Mil Spec Buffer Tube Kit Magpul MOE Mil-Spec CARB Stock MEGA Upper Cimmfg 16" 1 in 8 barrel Wylde Chamber Melonite Troy/VTAC BattleRail Alpha 13" Syrac Adjustable Gas Block Yankee Hill Machine QDS Quick Deploy Sights (Might switch to Troy or MAGPUL MBUS). STAG Bolt Yankee hill Machine Barrel Thread Protector AFG2 Foreend Grip Gas Tube DPMS Mid Length Charging Handle BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 Yankee Hill Machine Receiver End Plate DPMS Ejection Port Cover Assembly Upper Vise Block Magazines Links for everything above (my spreadsheet is such that I can't just copy everything over) http://www.midwayusa.com/product/866002/ar-stoner-receiver-extension-buffer-tube-assembly-6-position-mil-spec-diameter-ar-15-aluminum-black http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/3-1028471http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2319180434/magpul-stock-moe-collapsible-ar-15-carbine-synthetic http://cimmfg.us/Upper-Forged-Stripped-M4-Feed-Ramps-AR-15-Mega-Arms-MEGA-M0017.htm http://cimmfg.us/Barrel-Rifle-AR-15-AR-Performance-ARP-BARREL.htm http://www.midwayusa.com/product/3058317644/troy-industries-vtac-alpha-battle-rail-modular-free-float-handguard-ar-15 http://www.midwayusa.com/product/363956/syrac-ordnance-click-adjustable-gas-block-ar-15-lr-308-standard-barrel-0750-inside-diameter-low-profile-steel-matte http://www.midwayusa.com/product/282189/yankee-hill-machine-qds-quick-deploy-flip-up-front-and-rear-sight-set-hooded-ar-15-flat-top-aluminum-matte http://www.midwayusa.com/product/267295/yankee-hill-machine-barrel-thread-protector-cap-5-8-24-standard-barrel-steel-black http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2319453274/magpul-afg2-angled-forend-grip-ar-15-polymer http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1413288594/dpms-gas-tube-ar-15 http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-GFH-Mod-4-p/bcm%20gfh%20mod%204%20556.htm http://www.midwayusa.com/product/130710/yankee-hill-machine-receiver-end-plate-loop-sling-mount-adapter-ambidextrous-ar-15-lr-308-carbine-aluminum-matte http://www.midwayusa.com/product/888007/dpms-ejection-port-cover-assembly-ar-15-matte http://www.amazon.com/AR15-Smithing-Upper-Vise-Block/dp/B007LDRXWW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375156179&sr=8-1&keywords=ar+upper+vise http://www.midwayusa.com/product/448281/magpul-pmag-m3-magazine-ar-15-223-remington-30-round-black Okay. What do you think I am missing? Thanks for taking the time to help everyone. |
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Well I made a couple changes:
1) Going to get MAGPUL MBUS front and rear sights. My reasoning: For at least $100 savings I am getting sights that WORK. I am not an elitist as far as parts go. I want stuff that works. Just like I switched to a TROY rail because the YHM Quad I had wasn't practical... a modular system just makes sense. 2) Getting the Magpul MOE and whatever mil-spec buffer tube I can get my hands on. I decided that if I don't like either part it isn't a huge invest of money or time. It also drops my budget a significant amount. Either way I am sure the parts list is going to change here again soon. I am not an impulse buyer for something as expensive as this. I have given myself a hard date of August 9th to finalize my parts list. Some parameters I am not willing to budge on: 1) 1 in 8 twist barrel 2) Mid-Length gas system 3) Modular Rail. I really like the Troy Alpha. 4) Iron Sights. (I am determined to shoot well with Iron sights before I get any glass) 5) Adjustable Gas Block |
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