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Posted: 6/24/2013 9:46:55 AM EDT
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Does anyone have any experience with these polymer 80% lowers? www.eplowers.com
The ability to complete it without a jig or the need for any kind of finish is intriguing. Just wander if anyone has tried one. Also, I'm new to this 80% thing and wondered why it is that the 80% lowers don't seem to be any cheaper than 100% lowers. Other than the enjoyment of completing it yourself and lack of a need for a dealer transfer, are there any other advantages to going this route? |
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Does anyone have any experience with these polymer 80% lowers? www.eplowers.com The ability to complete it without a jig or the need for any kind of finish is intriguing. Just wander if anyone has tried one. Also, I'm new to this 80% thing and wondered why it is that the 80% lowers don't seem to be any cheaper than 100% lowers. Other than the enjoyment of completing it yourself and lack of a need for a dealer transfer, are there any other advantages to going this route? Can't answer the first part of your question. Sorry But as far as price. There simply aren't as many companies making them, so they're able to dictate a slightly higher price. Additionally, most of the 80% lowers you find will be billet instead of forged, which typically means they are made on a CNC machine which takes more time then it does to make a forging, and time=money. Personally, I would avoid a polymer lower of any kind, Most people seem to have good luck with them, but there's always a few that don't have good luck with them. It's just to much of a gamble for me. If you're planning on making it a 22 LR, then go for it though. As far as advantages you pretty much nailed it. No paperwork and personal pride in something you helped create. I'm sure if I screwed some details up, someone will surely call me out, but that's my understanding of the price difference... |
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Also, I'm new to this 80% thing and wondered why it is that the 80% lowers don't seem to be any cheaper than 100% lowers. Other than the enjoyment of completing it yourself and lack of a need for a dealer transfer, are there any other advantages to going this route? The ability to have a legal gun with zero markings on it is somewhat intriguing. |
| I will say our product is very strong and durable; much more so than any other polymer lower. You see polymer lowers are injection molded; in the case of our product they are injection molded and then have to survive being finished and completed by our customers. So our 80% lowers are really required to be much stronger for this reason. Also we wanted to have the best product out there and I think we have got that. Polymer is actually just a generic term and the specific composition is proprietary but I will say we use a fiber reinforced material and it is very very strong. Still we have beefed up the area of the front pivot pin holes and the buffer tube area with additional material. These are the areas of failure that have given other polymer lowers a bad name and even though our material is much stronger and would probably work fine if we didn't reinforce those areas; we wanted to respond to the consumer. |
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I have been following the 80% receiver issue for several months now and as I see it, the main advantage to a 80% receiver is the ability to have an AR-15 lower as the basis for a build off the grid so to speak. The main drawback is having the skills and abilities to complete the receiver. Since January I have ordered and completed four 0% receivers, so I have an idea of what it takes. Given some simple tools like a drill press or a mini mill, a 80% would be fairly easy to finish. I found the biggest problem I had was in getting the pivot pin holes in the right place. If those are off, then the rest of the work is a major PITA.
As far as difference between polymer and aluminum, it is really up to the user as to which he prefers. I have put together several New Frontier stripped lowers for customers and they were happy with them. Right now a stripped New Frontier lower is going for about $60. The EP lowers are $100, and you have to finish them. The only thing I did not see addressed with the EPlowers is the ability to either mark or place markings on the receiver. I also believe that they need to have the area for the serial number be metallic to comply with existing law ala the New Frontier lower. They may have it, I just didn't see it at their website. I can get Aero Precision Blem lowers for $80, and standard ones for $120. There are three pages of 80% lowers on Gunbroker right now, and the price is everywhere from $99 on up. There are also several Rockethub 80% lower projects ongoing, but to date, no one has received a lower even from the projects that were completed in March. When you are completing an 80% lower you have to complete the machining, have someone or put some type of markings on it (if for no other reason than to keep the local LEO off your case if they want to look at it), and then get the gun finished or finish it yourself. All these cost time and money. It is totally up to the individual to decide which way they want to go with polymer versus aluminum, and 80% versus already completed. The parts to complete AR's are finally beginning to drop and right now I can build an AR for around $500. |
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Hi my name is John I'm with EP Lowers. I found this post by chance. I would be happy to answer any of your questions. Thank you for your interest. You found a first posters post in time to post your first post thats amazing or something. Google is amazing. I check the search results every day to see what folks are saying. As far as marking the lowers we do not have metal embedded for a serial number; however we have laser etched lowers with unique markings before and they turn out well. You are not legally required to mark them unless that is what you want to do. |
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Hi my name is John I'm with EP Lowers. I found this post by chance. I would be happy to answer any of your questions. Thank you for your interest. You found a first posters post in time to post your first post thats amazing or something. Google is amazing. I check the search results every day to see what folks are saying. As far as marking the lowers we do not have metal embedded for a serial number; however we have laser etched lowers with unique markings before and they turn out well. You are not legally required to mark them unless that is what you want to do. While you are correct that your product does not need to be marked, once it is turned into a completed receiver it should have the ability to be marked in some way. I have marked the receivers I built with serial numbers and fire control markings to show ownership. Since I end up selling most of what I build eventually to fund other projects, it may be more of an issue to me than to others. By the way, do you have the standard fire control markings on your receivers. I didn't see any information or pictures on your website about them. |
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Hi my name is John I'm with EP Lowers. I found this post by chance. I would be happy to answer any of your questions. Thank you for your interest. You found a first posters post in time to post your first post thats amazing or something. my thoughts exactly |
| Yes there are markings for the fire control selections 'safe','semi','auto'. There are no other markings on the receiver but as i said laser engraving is a good option and something we are going to be offering upon request. Check us out on facebook under EPLowers you will find a lot more photos. |
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Great explanation, and I commend you on running 0% lowers. You are spot on about the price. I have made a few 80% lowers to date, and we initially thought they cost a lot to make. At one point the market was 150 and up. Here is the simple truth, if it is done right a lower receiver can be made for a lot less then what the market currently is. The problem is machine shops with no weapons machining experience jumped on the band wagon. Due to time and lack of experience it cost them a lot to make them which means you pay more. We took our production offline for about 2 months to in order to get our price down. It took some expensive equipment and a lot of ingenuity. Our goal is to offer a billet 80% lower with added feature and custom touches for the same price as a forged lower. We are currently filling all of our dealer orders, and next week we will have our 80% billet lowers back up for 79.00 each.
Just some pointers when looking at lowers. I would stay away from milled mag wells. No matter what we did, it was impossible to get it perfect. A broach or EDM is the only way to go. Check the surface finish to ensure your able to get the milling marks out. Threaded bolt catches are almost standard, at the same time simplicity is key. Make sure the company has a determination letter from the ATF. Good luck in your decision. |
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I kinda like them oddly enough. Can you tell me a bit more about the different color material it seems is in FCG pocket? Also I assume you will be offering uppers as well at some point? Give me a upper/lower combo in Magpul Foliage green please.  Yes. the fire control pocket is a different color so it’s clearly outlined what needs to be removed; just mill out the white and leave the black area and you’re done. Fire control and pivot pin locations are clearly marked for drilling which means..... NO JIG. We have the only polymer 80% lower available and the only 80% lower that requires no jig to complete; that fact saves a lot of cost for the consumer. With these there is no finish to worry about; if you scratch them just buff it out. We will be offering multiple colors as well; right now we offer black and pink but there will be many more to follow. Of course if our color palette does not suit you these will take a painted finish like duracoat or cerakote just fine. Yes we believe we can manufacture uppers from the same material but that's down the road. We are dreaming big here. We want to be a butt stock to barrel company providing many products like magazines, hand guards butt stocks grips etc using the same robust materials. Also we are also planning to do 80% AR-10 Lowers and 80% 1911 Polymer frames. |
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Hi john,
Some other 80% Lower Receiver suppliers have a video on "how to". Does EPLowers.com have this, or planning to? Also is you Lower Parts Kit-LPK mainly made of polymer? Last, Is this the only LPK that this Lower Receiver will accept, or can other LPK's be installed? Thanks, Crevice Dog |
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Hi john, Some other 80% Lower Receiver suppliers have a video on "how to". Does EPLowers.com have this, or planning to? Also is you Lower Parts Kit-LPK mainly made of polymer? Last, Is this the only LPK that this Lower Receiver will accept, or can other LPK's be installed? Thanks, Crevice Dog Good question, in the past there has been issues with steel FCG pins egging out polymer lowers. You have addressed this? |
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Great explanation, and I commend you on running 0% lowers. You are spot on about the price. I have made a few 80% lowers to date, and we initially thought they cost a lot to make. At one point the market was 150 and up. Here is the simple truth, if it is done right a lower receiver can be made for a lot less then what the market currently is. The problem is machine shops with no weapons machining experience jumped on the band wagon. Due to time and lack of experience it cost them a lot to make them which means you pay more. We took our production offline for about 2 months to in order to get our price down. It took some expensive equipment and a lot of ingenuity. Our goal is to offer a billet 80% lower with added feature and custom touches for the same price as a forged lower. We are currently filling all of our dealer orders, and next week we will have our 80% billet lowers back up for 79.00 each. Just some pointers when looking at lowers. I would stay away from milled mag wells. No matter what we did, it was impossible to get it perfect. A broach or EDM is the only way to go. Check the surface finish to ensure your able to get the milling marks out. Threaded bolt catches are almost standard, at the same time simplicity is key. Make sure the company has a determination letter from the ATF. Good luck in your decision. I am not a shill for these guys, but when I started out in milling my lowers, I was looking for a top plate for my jig because the jig I bought elsewhere in January didn't come with one. These guys sold me one at a very reasonable price and I actually got it within a week of ordering. He also seems spot on about the milling versus broached mag well. I sent my first 0% receiver out to have the magwell milled out so I could use it as a reference for future builds. When I got it back, the magwell had a 1/16th" difference in the middle of the well where they had turned the receiver over to machine it. When milling out the other magwells on my lowers I had a problem with the end mills wandering when getting near the bottom of the receiver. |
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Hi john, Some other 80% Lower Receiver suppliers have a video on "how to". Does EPLowers.com have this, or planning to? Also is you Lower Parts Kit-LPK mainly made of polymer? Last, Is this the only LPK that this Lower Receiver will accept, or can other LPK's be installed? Thanks, Crevice Dog We don't have an official video up yet from us but a customer was kind enough to upload a video showing completion and firing; check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxcSlOVeXlQ&feature=youtu.be No. The lower parts kits offered on our website are standard metal kits like any other. No. Our polymer lowers will take any standard lower parts kit. |
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You really wanna be my hero? Make polymer PSL magazines! 
I've got an 80% on my BMT list for about late fall, so maybe we'll be talking. But what the world REALLY needs is some good mags for us poor Romak guys.  No plans to do those at this time but you never know we are just getting started. 
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Hi john, Some other 80% Lower Receiver suppliers have a video on "how to". Does EPLowers.com have this, or planning to? Also is you Lower Parts Kit-LPK mainly made of polymer? Last, Is this the only LPK that this Lower Receiver will accept, or can other LPK's be installed? Thanks, Crevice Dog Good question, in the past there has been issues with steel FCG pins egging out polymer lowers. You have addressed this? With the material we use there should not be a problem with that at all. However if you want added support you may want to add an anti roll pin setup as with other lowers. |
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Hi john, Some other 80% Lower Receiver suppliers have a video on "how to". Does EPLowers.com have this, or planning to? Also is you Lower Parts Kit-LPK mainly made of polymer? Last, Is this the only LPK that this Lower Receiver will accept, or can other LPK's be installed? Thanks, Crevice Dog We don't have an official video up yet from us but a customer was kind enough to upload a video showing completion and firing; check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxcSlOVeXlQ&feature=youtu.be No. The lower parts kits offered on our website are standard metal kits like any other. No. Our polymer lowers will take any standard lower parts kit. Seems to be a Invalid link/url. |
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Hi john, Some other 80% Lower Receiver suppliers have a video on "how to". Does EPLowers.com have this, or planning to? Also is you Lower Parts Kit-LPK mainly made of polymer? Last, Is this the only LPK that this Lower Receiver will accept, or can other LPK's be installed? Thanks, Crevice Dog We don't have an official video up yet from us but a customer was kind enough to upload a video showing completion and firing; check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxcSlOVeXlQ&feature=youtu.be No. The lower parts kits offered on our website are standard metal kits like any other. No. Our polymer lowers will take any standard lower parts kit. Seems to be a Invalid link/url. Ok try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxcSlOVeXlQ&feature=youtu.be |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hi john, Some other 80% Lower Receiver suppliers have a video on "how to". Does EPLowers.com have this, or planning to? Also is you Lower Parts Kit-LPK mainly made of polymer? Last, Is this the only LPK that this Lower Receiver will accept, or can other LPK's be installed? Thanks, Crevice Dog We don't have an official video up yet from us but a customer was kind enough to upload a video showing completion and firing; check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxcSlOVeXlQ&feature=youtu.be No. The lower parts kits offered on our website are standard metal kits like any other. No. Our polymer lowers will take any standard lower parts kit. Seems to be a Invalid link/url. I realize the link has been made hot, but just as an FYI, Arfcom has issues with embedded links sometimes. Try highlighting, right clicking (in Firefox) and clicking "open in new tab" and you should be good to go. This will also work with a lot of those pesky live links that seem to be dead ends |
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Added an additional post rather than edit the old one to ask a question. I just watched the video and it looks like the white material is actually a separate piece that's just sort of shoved up against the black material. So I guess that takes care of coloring outside the lines, but it just made me think one more time (assuming it really is legal this way) the sorts of silly shit we have to embark upon because of the jackwads who get to make the rules of our society. Anyway, the question. Would one of these things be GTG for a pistol build? All of my current lowers have plans built around them already, but I've lately been hankerin' for a .300blk pistol. Would the increased thrust from the pistol gas/buffer system pose a problem for the tube area? |
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Added an additional post rather than edit the old one to ask a question. I just watched the video and it looks like the white material is actually a separate piece that's just sort of shoved up against the black material. So I guess that takes care of coloring outside the lines, but it just made me think one more time (assuming it really is legal this way) the sorts of silly shit we have to embark upon because of the jackwads who get to make the rules of our society. Anyway, the question. Would one of these things be GTG for a pistol build? All of my current lowers have plans built around them already, but I've lately been hankerin' for a .300blk pistol. Would the increased thrust from the pistol gas/buffer system pose a problem for the tube area? Well we have been in contact with BATF during this whole process and I can assure you they are legal. I won't go into specifics about how they are manufactured but i will tell you the fire control group is solid and there is no way to pull the white area out. It has to be removed by being cut away just like any other lower. Yes you can build them as a pistol; just know your laws in your area. The lowers will handle .300blk just fine. These lowers are very strong in fact we encourage folks to build them in many calibers and let us know how they work out. If it fails mail it back to us and we will send you a new one. We have a lifetime limited warranty; so long as the customer completes it correctly it is warrantied against defect for life. You can view the language of our warranty on the website. http://www.eplowers.com |
| I like the concept and the design of the EP lower (far more modern than New Frontiers design). What I can't get over is the price, especially since forged lowers are dropping in price back to pre panic pricing. Maybe I'm just spoiled, but when you can pick up a quality 100% forged lower for $80.00 it's hard to pay $100. 00 for a DIY polymer lower. I do get the pride part of doing it yourself or to have an untraceable lower. Now if they were $50. -$60. I could see picking up one. |
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