AR Sponsor
Posted: 12/1/2012 3:34:53 PM EDT
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I was at a gun show today, and a friend of mine was buying some parts for a build. The man behind the table had some receivers.
He told that if he bought a rifle lower it had to remain a rifle, and if a barrel shorter than 16", it had the be registered as a SBR, THat I knew and agreed with. Then he said that if he bought an AR pistol receiver with a 11.5" barrel, he could swap out the buffer tube for a stock and it would be legal and would NOT have to be registered as a SBR. I told my friend that I am 99.9% sure that it was BS. I explained that the things that you add a Glock pistol to and make a carbine, has to registered as a SBR...I told him if it had a buttstock it was a rifle by law, and with a barrel shorter than 16", would make it a SBR. Did the laws change, or was the man full of it...??? |
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When he receives in the stripped AR lower receiver if he enters it as Any Other Weapon, you can make a AR Pistol, or SBR (with paperwork and engraving), or Rifle.
If you make it a pistol it CANNOT have a shoulderable stock on it EVER if you have an NFA length upper in you possesion. |
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The above poster is in error. If the lower is simply a stripped lower or even a complete lower with a stock as long as it has never been barreled as a rifle it is just a receiver. It transfers as "other" (not any other weapon, that is a NFA firearm). It may then be made into any type firearm you wish, pistol, rifle, firearm, SRB(with from1), AOW(with form1). If you build it as a pistol first you may put a 16" or greater barrel on it then add a stock and have a legal rifle. You can also remove the stock then put the short barrel back on and it is once again a legal pistol. As long as it begins life as a pistol and the stock and short barrel are never on it at the same time you 100% legal. You may install a VFG provided the OAL of the pistol is greater then 26". This configuration is a title 1 firearm. If the receiver began it's life as a rifle (butt stock and barrel installed) then it must remain a rifle unless you form 1 it into something else. To answer your question, any firearm designed and intended to fired from the shoulder with a barrel or barrels of less than 16" is a SBR. The dealer was full of it. You are right. Any rifle modified to a OAL of less then 26" is also a SBR regardless of barrel(s) length. If the guy selling these lowers had stripped down rifles and was parting them out (very common) then those lowers could not legally be made into anything but a rifle without a form1. |
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Quoted:
If the lower is simply a stripped lower or even a complete lower with a stock as long as it has never been barreled as a rifle it is just a receiver. It transfers as "other" (not any other weapon, that is a NFA firearm). It may then be made into any type firearm you wish, pistol, rifle, firearm, SRB(with from1), AOW(with form1). If you build it as a pistol first you may put a 16" or greater barrel on it then add a stock and have a legal rifle. You can also remove the stock then put the short barrel back on and it is once again a legal pistol. As long as it begins life as a pistol and the stock and short barrel are never on it at the same time you 100% legal. You may install a VFG provided the OAL of the pistol is greater then 26". This configuration is a title 1 firearm. If the receiver began it's life as a rifle (butt stock and barrel installed) then it must remain a rifle unless you form 1 it into something else. To answer your question, any firearm designed and intended to fired from the shoulder with a barrel or barrels of less than 16" is a SBR. The dealer was full of it. You are right. Any rifle modified to a OAL of less then 26" is also a SBR regardless of barrel(s) length. This is correct. MAHA |
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Quoted:
I thought this (bolded text in quote) was only true for the "Contender" pistol/rifle combo's. Did ATF make a definitive ruling for the AR platform? Sorry if this has been beat to death, but I haven't looked into this for some time.
Quoted:
If the lower is simply a stripped lower or even a complete lower with a stock as long as it has never been barreled as a rifle it is just a receiver. It transfers as "other" (not any other weapon, that is a NFA firearm). It may then be made into any type firearm you wish, pistol, rifle, firearm, SRB(with from1), AOW(with form1). If you build it as a pistol first you may put a 16" or greater barrel on it then add a stock and have a legal rifle. You can also remove the stock then put the short barrel back on and it is once again a legal pistol. As long as it begins life as a pistol and the stock and short barrel are never on it at the same time you 100% legal. You may install a VFG provided the OAL of the pistol is greater then 26". This configuration is a title 1 firearm. If the receiver began it's life as a rifle (butt stock and barrel installed) then it must remain a rifle unless you form 1 it into something else. To answer your question, any firearm designed and intended to fired from the shoulder with a barrel or barrels of less than 16" is a SBR. The dealer was full of it. You are right. Any rifle modified to a OAL of less then 26" is also a SBR regardless of barrel(s) length. This is correct. MAHA |
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Quoted: Quoted: I thought this (bolded text in quote) was only true for the "Contender" pistol/rifle combo's. Did ATF make a definitive ruling for the AR platform? Sorry if this has been beat to death, but I haven't looked into this for some time.Quoted: If the lower is simply a stripped lower or even a complete lower with a stock as long as it has never been barreled as a rifle it is just a receiver. It transfers as "other" (not any other weapon, that is a NFA firearm). It may then be made into any type firearm you wish, pistol, rifle, firearm, SRB(with from1), AOW(with form1). If you build it as a pistol first you may put a 16" or greater barrel on it then add a stock and have a legal rifle. You can also remove the stock then put the short barrel back on and it is once again a legal pistol. As long as it begins life as a pistol and the stock and short barrel are never on it at the same time you 100% legal. You may install a VFG provided the OAL of the pistol is greater then 26". This configuration is a title 1 firearm. If the receiver began it's life as a rifle (butt stock and barrel installed) then it must remain a rifle unless you form 1 it into something else. To answer your question, any firearm designed and intended to fired from the shoulder with a barrel or barrels of less than 16" is a SBR. The dealer was full of it. You are right. Any rifle modified to a OAL of less then 26" is also a SBR regardless of barrel(s) length. This is correct. MAHA The US Supreme Court issued a definitive decision in 1992 with the Thompson-Center case. Although the case was decided, based on the rule of lenity, in favor of Thompson , the reasoning behind the decision apply to all. Any other case brought before any court would be forced to follow the Supreme Court decision. (provided there is no State law to the contrary) Finally in 2011 the ATF gave up and issued ruling 2011-4, officially accepting the decision as including all pistols, kits or collection of parts. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought this (bolded text in quote) was only true for the "Contender" pistol/rifle combo's. Did ATF make a definitive ruling for the AR platform? Sorry if this has been beat to death, but I haven't looked into this for some time.
Quoted:
If the lower is simply a stripped lower or even a complete lower with a stock as long as it has never been barreled as a rifle it is just a receiver. It transfers as "other" (not any other weapon, that is a NFA firearm). It may then be made into any type firearm you wish, pistol, rifle, firearm, SRB(with from1), AOW(with form1). If you build it as a pistol first you may put a 16" or greater barrel on it then add a stock and have a legal rifle. You can also remove the stock then put the short barrel back on and it is once again a legal pistol. As long as it begins life as a pistol and the stock and short barrel are never on it at the same time you 100% legal. You may install a VFG provided the OAL of the pistol is greater then 26". This configuration is a title 1 firearm. If the receiver began it's life as a rifle (butt stock and barrel installed) then it must remain a rifle unless you form 1 it into something else. To answer your question, any firearm designed and intended to fired from the shoulder with a barrel or barrels of less than 16" is a SBR. The dealer was full of it. You are right. Any rifle modified to a OAL of less then 26" is also a SBR regardless of barrel(s) length. This is correct. MAHA The US Supreme Court issued a definitive decision in 1992 with the Thompson-Center case. Although the case was decided, based on the rule of lenity, in favor of Thompson , the reasoning behind the decision apply to all. Any other case brought before any court would be forced to follow the Supreme Court decision. (provided there is no State law to the contrary) Finally in 2011 the ATF gave up and issued ruling 2011-4, officially accepting the decision as including all pistols, kits or collection of parts. WOOHOOOO! Thanks for the info! |
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Quoted: What if you have an upper with a less than 16" barrel? and stock the "Pistol" lower? Illegal SBR without an approved form1 if the short upper is on the stocked lower. If you have a +16" upper on the stocked lower and the pistol upper sitting in the corner, no problem provided you have the parts to return it to the pistol configuration. This reason alone why you should use a pistol RE when building. See US v Kent (97-8245 11th dis) for the precedent. |
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So if I have a 10.5 300blk upper without a pistol lower or form 1 lower for it, am I wrong for even having it since I have numerous stocked lowers in various stages of build? The 10.5 upper is not mounted to anything. Just waiting for my pistol buffer kit. BATFE has stated you should NEVER have this in conjunction with an usable lower assembly. In fact they went as far to state that if you have a transferable M-16 AND an AR-15 you cannot have spare full auto parts for the M-16. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
So if I have a 10.5 300blk upper without a pistol lower or form 1 lower for it, am I wrong for even having it since I have numerous stocked lowers in various stages of build? The 10.5 upper is not mounted to anything. Just waiting for my pistol buffer kit. BATFE has stated you should NEVER have this in conjunction with an usable lower assembly. In fact they went as far to state that is you have a transferable M-16 AND an AR-15 you cannot have spare full auto parts for the M-16. I understand what you're saying. But it doesn't make sense that I can own numerous ar15s with stocks and 16" barrels but by having a short upper (which has never been mounted to anything) and some in progress non functional lowers I'm somehow illegal. What if I had a complete pistol lower and two short uppers? Would one of the uppers be illegal since I could still put it on any of my non pistol or form 1 lowers? I'm not arguing. Based on your comment about spare parts for m16s, one could assume their take on it is if you own an ar15 You can't own an ar15 pistol? |
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From what I understand the ATF looks at m16 parts this way,
Any part that aids in the operation of a machine gun ( m16 hammer, carrier,trigger, etc,,,) Is in itself considered a Machinegun , and not allowed . Same problem that people had with the early DIAS. Now I could be wrong. |
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Quoted:
So if I have a 10.5 300blk upper without a pistol lower or form 1 lower for it, am I wrong for even having it since I have numerous stocked lowers in various stages of build? The 10.5 upper is not mounted to anything. Just waiting for my pistol buffer kit. Are you asking if you can mount you're 300blk. Out on you're form 1 lower? As long as the caliber was listed on the form, or you're Receiver was registered as multi |
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So if I have a 10.5 300blk upper without a pistol lower or form 1 lower for it, am I wrong for even having it since I have numerous stocked lowers in various stages of build? The 10.5 upper is not mounted to anything. Just waiting for my pistol buffer kit. Are you asking if you can mount you're 300blk. Out on you're form 1 lower? As long as the caliber was listed on the form, or you're Receiver was registered as multi Sorry, but the info in red is incorrect. You can't list "multi" for caliber on a Form 1. You list the permanent caliber the SBR will be configed in, however, you can switch any caliber your lower will accept as long as there's no permanent change. |
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So if I have a 10.5 300blk upper without a pistol lower or form 1 lower for it, am I wrong for even having it since I have numerous stocked lowers in various stages of build? The 10.5 upper is not mounted to anything. Just waiting for my pistol buffer kit. Are you asking if you can mount you're 300blk. Out on you're form 1 lower? As long as the caliber was listed on the form, or you're Receiver was registered as multi Sorry, but the info in red is incorrect. You can't list "multi" for caliber on a Form 1. You list the permanent caliber the SBR will be configed in, however, you can switch any caliber your lower will accept as long as there's no permanent change. You are right, at one point you could list " multi" as caliber but now you have to List it's permant caliber, and every additional caliber you intend on using. I meant to say you would be better off with a receiver listed as multi instead of 223/5.56 This is the way mine was done |
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Quoted: So if I have a 10.5 300blk upper without a pistol lower or form 1 lower for it, am I wrong for even having it since I have numerous stocked lowers in various stages of build? The 10.5 upper is not mounted to anything. Just waiting for my pistol buffer kit. With no legal configuration in which to use the 10.5 upper you are in possession of an illegal SBR. In other words, putting the upper on any of your existing lowers will make a complete SBR, so even apart you are still in possession of that firearm. 26 U.S.C. § 5845(c): (c) Rifle The term "rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge. This definition of a rifle does not specify that a weapon must be assembled completely in order to be a "rifle.” Cf. United States v. Woods, 560 F.2d 660, 665 (5th Cir.1977) (interpreting 26 U.S.C. § 5845(d), the NFA definition of "shotgun”). Instead, for a weapon to be a "rifle,” that weapon simply must be capable of being "readily restored to fire.” |
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Quoted: Yes, your fine. As long as you have ALL the parts to assemble a legal firearm then your GTG.So as long as my pistol lower is complete and the 10.5 stays on that until the form 1 comes back, there is no issue with me having other rifle receivers? The problem come when there is no way to assemble a legal firearm from the parts you have and the parts can be assembled into a regulated firearm. From ATF 2011-4: "Held, a firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they: (a) Serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and barrel of less than 16 inches in length); or (b) Convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm, including – (1) A pistol and attachable shoulder stock; (2) A rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and an attachable barrel of less than 16 inches in length. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all requirements of the NFA." |
| What's this "engraved" I'm reading about. Every AR I have ever built has been a rifle or 16" carbine... except one. I built a pistol on a stripped lower I bought at a gun show. Do I need to do some engraving, to make it legal? I also have one stripped lower left. I'd like to build this into a SBR. How hard is it to get the paperwork for the feds, if you live in a small town. Only one gun shop in the area, and they don't do NFA stuff. I'm assuming I'll need to find a class III dealer, but I hate to ASSume. |
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Well,
I know this question comes up all the time about pistol and rifle ars. Now the biggest question is where most people are at after in this ar game for awhile... Have a dozen or more stripped lowers, a few pistols, a bunch of rifles and boxes and boxes of parts, some new some just didn't like, some who know? Now I'm sure the gun haters would love to have a pick of all this tones of rifle and pistol parts and thousands of rounds etc publicity... Might go along way towards the next ban... But, the law is a bit vague in that it says in close proximity...what's that...same room, same building, same property? And then can be used to make a regulated firearm...he'll, I have a full machine shop on site , I've got a huge 48"x24" table on the big one...and metal lathe as well, I could most likely build just about any weapon I want in that building...no "gun parts" in there...but could easily upload a drawing through our cnc software and run it...will take some time, but it's just a part that most small shops could make easily... Back on track... I know of many gun rooms that have all the parts that could make a NFC weapon especially a sbr...that one is rediculious... I have several ar pistols with short barrels and not less than two feet away I have a rifle...swap illegal...does this count...maybe...it's not in black and white...and as everyone knows you can put a long barrel on a pistol...not too practical but not illegal.. Also I have at least a dozen of every concebile part for an ar in parts bins...labeled for each part from diconnectors to detents... I probably have parts alone to build at least 6 I can think of...and I'm sure I'm not alone... So, if there is one thing I tend to not do is let too many people rummage in my armory...or thake pics either... And sorry about the rant boys... Bret |
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Quoted:
What's this "engraved" I'm reading about. Every AR I have ever built has been a rifle or 16" carbine... except one. I built a pistol on a stripped lower I bought at a gun show. Do I need to do some engraving, to make it legal? I also have one stripped lower left. I'd like to build this into a SBR. How hard is it to get the paperwork for the feds, if you live in a small town. Only one gun shop in the area, and they don't do NFA stuff. I'm assuming I'll need to find a class III dealer, but I hate to ASSume. You don't need a dealer that deals in NFA items to Form 1 your lower. You are the maker. If SBRd on a Form 1 you must engrave your name, city & state on the item. Size of town doesn't matter as long as your county's CLEO is willing to sign off (if you're registering as an individual) on your paperwork. |
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From what I understand the ATF looks at m16 parts this way, Any part that aids in the operation of a machine gun ( m16 hammer, carrier,trigger, etc,,,) Is in itself considered a Machinegun , and not allowed . Same problem that people had with the early DIAS. Now I could be wrong. This seems confusing, as I have read of a great many of people who have built 16" carbines and stated the FA carrier. What if the carrier is the only M16 part you have? |
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Using a FA Carrier in a AR 15 is not an issue. If you had the Fire Control Group for a m16 then you have a problem.
When making a NFA Item is has to be engraved with the Makers info. If you send in the form 1 and make the SBR yourself you are the maker even if you are doing no more than pushing 2 pins and putting the short upper on the Lower. If you buy a factory SBR then it is engraved by the factory as they are the maker. Just as long as you have a legal configuration for your the parts (Uppers and Lowers) you are in the clear. I.E. have a pistol or SBR with/for your short upper. You can have more than one short upper for your pistol/SBR. If you have a short upper without a pistol/SBR then you are in possession of a unregistered SBR. Clear as mud we know. MAHA |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
From what I understand the ATF looks at m16 parts this way, Any part that aids in the operation of a machine gun ( m16 hammer, carrier,trigger, etc,,,) Is in itself considered a Machinegun , and not allowed . Same problem that people had with the early DIAS. Now I could be wrong. This seems confusing, as I have read of a great many of people who have built 16" carbines and stated the FA carrier. What if the carrier is the only M16 part you have? Looks like I gave you some old imfo, I looked it up and you are allowed to run a m16 carrier. Most new guns are shipped with them, I went and checked and I have more than a few. Apparently the ATF decided on the issue a couple of years back. I'll read some more and come back |
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Quoted: Well, I know this question comes up all the time about pistol and rifle ars. Now the biggest question is where most people are at after in this ar game for awhile... Have a dozen or more stripped lowers, a few pistols, a bunch of rifles and boxes and boxes of parts, some new some just didn't like, some who know? Now I'm sure the gun haters would love to have a pick of all this tones of rifle and pistol parts and thousands of rounds etc publicity... Might go along way towards the next ban... But, the law is a bit vague in that it says in close proximity...what's that...same room, same building, same property? And then can be used to make a regulated firearm...he'll, I have a full machine shop on site , I've got a huge 48"x24" table on the big one...and metal lathe as well, I could most likely build just about any weapon I want in that building...no "gun parts" in there...but could easily upload a drawing through our cnc software and run it...will take some time, but it's just a part that most small shops could make easily... Back on track... I know of many gun rooms that have all the parts that could make a NFC weapon especially a sbr...that one is rediculious... I have several ar pistols with short barrels and not less than two feet away I have a rifle...swap illegal...does this count...maybe...it's not in black and white...and as everyone knows you can put a long barrel on a pistol...not too practical but not illegal.. Also I have at least a dozen of every concebile part for an ar in parts bins...labeled for each part from diconnectors to detents... I probably have parts alone to build at least 6 I can think of...and I'm sure I'm not alone... So, if there is one thing I tend to not do is let too many people rummage in my armory...or thake pics either... And sorry about the rant boys... Bret Your not listening or your just being deliberately obtuse. If the collection parts you have can only be assembled into a regulated firearm then you are in violation. It's a very simple to concept. I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding it. |
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Quoted:
Using a FA Carrier in a AR 15 is not an issue. If you had the Fire Control Group for a m16 then you have a problem. When making a NFA Item on a Form 1 is has to be engraved with the Makers info. If you send in the form 1 and make the SBR yourself you are the maker even if you are doing no more than pushing 2 pins and putting the short upper on the Lower. If you buy a factory SBR then it is engraved by the factory as they are the maker. Just as long as you have a legal configuration for your the parts (Uppers and Lowers) you are in the clear. I.E. have a pistol or SBR with/for your short upper. You can have more than one short upper for your pistol/SBR. If you have a short upper without a pistol/SBR then you are in possession of a unregistered SBR. Clear as mud we know. MAHA |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I know this question comes up all the time about pistol and rifle ars. Now the biggest question is where most people are at after in this ar game for awhile... Have a dozen or more stripped lowers, a few pistols, a bunch of rifles and boxes and boxes of parts, some new some just didn't like, some who know? Now I'm sure the gun haters would love to have a pick of all this tones of rifle and pistol parts and thousands of rounds etc publicity... Might go along way towards the next ban... But, the law is a bit vague in that it says in close proximity...what's that...same room, same building, same property? And then can be used to make a regulated firearm...he'll, I have a full machine shop on site , I've got a huge 48"x24" table on the big one...and metal lathe as well, I could most likely build just about any weapon I want in that building...no "gun parts" in there...but could easily upload a drawing through our cnc software and run it...will take some time, but it's just a part that most small shops could make easily... Back on track... I know of many gun rooms that have all the parts that could make a NFC weapon especially a sbr...that one is rediculious... I have several ar pistols with short barrels and not less than two feet away I have a rifle...swap illegal...does this count...maybe...it's not in black and white...and as everyone knows you can put a long barrel on a pistol...not too practical but not illegal.. Also I have at least a dozen of every concebile part for an ar in parts bins...labeled for each part from diconnectors to detents... I probably have parts alone to build at least 6 I can think of...and I'm sure I'm not alone... So, if there is one thing I tend to not do is let too many people rummage in my armory...or thake pics either... And sorry about the rant boys... Bret Your not listening or your just being deliberately obtuse. If the collection parts you have can only be assembled into a regulated firearm then you are in violation. It's a very simple to concept. I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding it. I understand the intent of the regulation, but like I stated at the beginning it comes up all the time and the regulation is a bit confusing...and reading my late night post didn't come out exactly correct... Yes if you have a pistol your good for short uppers...as long as you don't put them on a rifle lower, but second point I was trying to make is that the anti gun lobby reads this a bit different and if they, the anti gun people, see a room with a bunch of short uppers next to rifles they see it a bit different and even though your leagle you may get a knock on your front door from a local Leo or another acronym... I've found out over many dealings on many levels that perception is more issues than the law ever has been. Ex. My house burnt down from a lighting strike...I was out of town... Anyhow, I was denied acces to anything on the property until the ATF got there and spent over half a day investigation on the contents of the house. Of course there was nothing illegal at all...but two ATF agents still rummaged through the place for many hours and asked many questions too. I had to fill out many many pages of thier questions...and yes I did call my lawyer and he showed up and was nvolved in what I can only describe as an interrogation. Because a firefighter saw a few "machine guns" it costed me money and boat loads of stress as well. The ATF even went through and pulled out every gun that they could find...I even had to attest that any other weapons of any kind were to be cataloged and forwarded to the ATF for further review... And yes any weapon that was reviewed was never seen again. So, I know my post was a bit hard to read and such...sorry it was late... But, my experience has thought me that even though your 100% legal you still don't want to invite the whole world to see. Bret |
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Quoted: Agreed. Most people don't ever think about all the ways the ATF can get involved. They simply think " they ain't going to bust your door down 'cause you bought a short upper and don't have the lower yet." Then lighting strikes, or the house burns, or your house is run into by a drink driver while your at work, or you get into a loud argument and the neighbors call on the noise..... Quoted: Quoted: Well, I know this question comes up all the time about pistol and rifle ars. Now the biggest question is where most people are at after in this ar game for awhile... Have a dozen or more stripped lowers, a few pistols, a bunch of rifles and boxes and boxes of parts, some new some just didn't like, some who know? Now I'm sure the gun haters would love to have a pick of all this tones of rifle and pistol parts and thousands of rounds etc publicity... Might go along way towards the next ban... But, the law is a bit vague in that it says in close proximity...what's that...same room, same building, same property? And then can be used to make a regulated firearm...he'll, I have a full machine shop on site , I've got a huge 48"x24" table on the big one...and metal lathe as well, I could most likely build just about any weapon I want in that building...no "gun parts" in there...but could easily upload a drawing through our cnc software and run it...will take some time, but it's just a part that most small shops could make easily... Back on track... I know of many gun rooms that have all the parts that could make a NFC weapon especially a sbr...that one is rediculious... I have several ar pistols with short barrels and not less than two feet away I have a rifle...swap illegal...does this count...maybe...it's not in black and white...and as everyone knows you can put a long barrel on a pistol...not too practical but not illegal.. Also I have at least a dozen of every concebile part for an ar in parts bins...labeled for each part from diconnectors to detents... I probably have parts alone to build at least 6 I can think of...and I'm sure I'm not alone... So, if there is one thing I tend to not do is let too many people rummage in my armory...or thake pics either... And sorry about the rant boys... Bret Your not listening or your just being deliberately obtuse. If the collection parts you have can only be assembled into a regulated firearm then you are in violation. It's a very simple to concept. I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding it. I understand the intent of the regulation, but like I stated at the beginning it comes up all the time and the regulation is a bit confusing...and reading my late night post didn't come out exactly correct... Yes if you have a pistol your good for short uppers...as long as you don't put them on a rifle lower, but second point I was trying to make is that the anti gun lobby reads this a bit different and if they, the anti gun people, see a room with a bunch of short uppers next to rifles they see it a bit different and even though your leagle you may get a knock on your front door from a local Leo or another acronym... I've found out over many dealings on many levels that perception is more issues than the law ever has been. Ex. My house burnt down from a lighting strike...I was out of town... Anyhow, I was denied acces to anything on the property until the ATF got there and spent over half a day investigation on the contents of the house. Of course there was nothing illegal at all...but two ATF agents still rummaged through the place for many hours and asked many questions too. I had to fill out many many pages of thier questions...and yes I did call my lawyer and he showed up and was nvolved in what I can only describe as an interrogation. Because a firefighter saw a few "machine guns" it costed me money and boat loads of stress as well. The ATF even went through and pulled out every gun that they could find...I even had to attest that any other weapons of any kind were to be cataloged and forwarded to the ATF for further review... And yes any weapon that was reviewed was never seen again. So, I know my post was a bit hard to read and such...sorry it was late... But, my experience has thought me that even though your 100% legal you still don't want to invite the whole world to see. Bret |
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