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Posted: 10/27/2012 8:22:35 AM EDT
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I am almost complete with my first AR build. I have posted several questions on here that has helped me build what I feel as a nice budget AR as a first built without compromising quality in any way.
I have read several threads about triggers and things to do about triggers. I looked long as hard at what trigger to use and what LPK to purchase when I did. I went with the CMMG because of the fact that they had already polished the contact points and IMHO the trigger feels very nice and crisp but the pull weight is horrible so I just wanted to ask a specific question to those that have tweaked their own triggers that have not spent the 200+ on a nice Timney or Geiselle. I have read where some people have taken the stock spring and triued to bend it around some to take off some of the tension and I have read where people have just used the JP spring kit. I have also read that people that have changed to the JP kit has had issues in not have enough power to ignite so primers on certain ammo so I am just trying to determine the best route to go on this last tweaking of my lower as my upper is on the way and I will be pretty much done once my BCG, Charging handle and rail come other than optics so any help would be appreciated Right now I would say that my trigger pull would be well in excess of 5-6lbs I would rather it be at least 4-4.5. I am more of a do it yourselfer so if this is something I can do without buying and expensive trigger then I would rather try it first. Thanks in advance |
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I am almost complete with my first AR build. I have posted several questions on here that has helped me build what I feel as a nice budget AR as a first built without compromising quality in any way. I have read several threads about triggers and things to do about triggers. I looked long as hard at what trigger to use and what LPK to purchase when I did. I went with the CMMG because of the fact that they had already polished the contact points and IMHO the trigger feels very nice and crisp but the pull weight is horrible so I just wanted to ask a specific question to those that have tweaked their own triggers that have not spent the 200+ on a nice Timney or Geiselle. I have read where some people have taken the stock spring and triued to bend it around some to take off some of the tension and I have read where people have just used the JP spring kit. I have also read that people that have changed to the JP kit has had issues in not have enough power to ignite so primers on certain ammo so I am just trying to determine the best route to go on this last tweaking of my lower as my upper is on the way and I will be pretty much done once my BCG, Charging handle and rail come other than optics so any help would be appreciated Right now I would say that my trigger pull would be well in excess of 5-6lbs I would rather it be at least 4-4.5. I am more of a do it yourselfer so if this is something I can do without buying and expensive trigger then I would rather try it first. Thanks in advance Try the JP spring kit. If you are worried about light primer strikes on hard cup primers, just select the enhanced reliability kit. This has the yellow trigger spring and red hammer spring. JP spring kits To shorten the take up you can use a trigger adjuster screw. Trigger adjuster The trigger adjuster provides convenience, in that you can adjust the trigger with the grip installed and there are no clearance issues to plan for. For almost no cost you can use a short 1/4-28 set screw in front of your grip screw and you will accomplish the same thing as the trigger adjuster screw. Verify the lengths of both screws so that there is proper clearance. If you choose to do this, post back and someone will give you instructions. Or read more about it in our Build Section stickies. Don't forget to use moly-fortified grease on the sear and disco (contact points) |
| +1 on the JP Rifles yellow springs for about $10/set. If you also polish your GI trigger's engagement surfaces with very fine sandpaper (300 to 1000 grit), you end up with a very nice smooth letoff of about 4.5 lbs. There is no crisp break like you get with a $200 Geissele unit, but its really very serviceable and much improved over the stock fire control unit. In my case, I had no trouble popping commerical primers 100% of the time. - CW |
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Thanks guys The trigger I have has already been polished directly from CMMG. I looked at it and it is as shiny and smooth as can be and I am not sure it could be much better. The pull itself is very smooth with no gritty feeling, it is just how strong the pull that it has that is bothering me.
I appreciate the info and I think I may just try those JP springs. What can it hurt. If it doesnt work I am not out much money. This is a low budget build and I cant jusitfy spending that much money on a trigger at least at this time. Maybe in the future when I build a higher quailty rifle I will spend the money on a higher grade trigger. I will probably do that with my .308 build. I will attempt to do the adustable trigger to see if that helps as well. I will search the threads for the information that adding that set screw. Thanks again |
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Quoted: Quoted: I am almost complete with my first AR build. I have posted several questions on here that has helped me build what I feel as a nice budget AR as a first built without compromising quality in any way. I have read several threads about triggers and things to do about triggers. I looked long as hard at what trigger to use and what LPK to purchase when I did. I went with the CMMG because of the fact that they had already polished the contact points and IMHO the trigger feels very nice and crisp but the pull weight is horrible so I just wanted to ask a specific question to those that have tweaked their own triggers that have not spent the 200+ on a nice Timney or Geiselle. I have read where some people have taken the stock spring and triued to bend it around some to take off some of the tension and I have read where people have just used the JP spring kit. I have also read that people that have changed to the JP kit has had issues in not have enough power to ignite so primers on certain ammo so I am just trying to determine the best route to go on this last tweaking of my lower as my upper is on the way and I will be pretty much done once my BCG, Charging handle and rail come other than optics so any help would be appreciated Right now I would say that my trigger pull would be well in excess of 5-6lbs I would rather it be at least 4-4.5. I am more of a do it yourselfer so if this is something I can do without buying and expensive trigger then I would rather try it first. Thanks in advance Try the JP spring kit. If you are worried about light primer strikes on hard cup primers, just select the enhanced reliability kit. This has the yellow trigger spring and red hammer spring. JP spring kits To shorten the take up you can use a trigger adjuster screw. Trigger adjuster The trigger adjuster provides convenience, in that you can adjust the trigger with the grip installed and there are no clearance issues to plan for. For almost no cost you can use a short 1/4-28 set screw in front of your grip screw and you will accomplish the same thing as the trigger adjuster screw. Verify the lengths of both screws so that there is proper clearance. If you choose to do this, post back and someone will give you instructions. Or read more about it in our Build Section stickies. Don't forget to use moly-fortified grease on the sear and disco (contact points) Does this work good? http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/JoeBob_s_Trigger_Adjuster_p/jb-triggeradjuster.htm I just don't wanna buy a gimmick, can someone explain how this item works. Thanks in advance. |
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Check this out
I did mine this week, it is amazing. I will say, I am not a do it yourself'er. I don't build stuff around the house, when I want something done, I call someone to do it. That being said, this was super easy, and turned out great. I did build my AR, as I wanted to understand how everything worked. The trigger is no different. The parts were not easy to come by: Ordered the set screws from BoltDepot.com $0.35 (I ordered 5) Ordered the tap drill (NO one around here had the right size) from Track of the Wolf $3.55 Bought the tap drill handle from Home Depot $15 JP Yellow Springs $9.00 Used my dremel to lighten the hammer and shave some of the rear trigger bar so it would fit under the safety. Painted the dremeled areas with rust proof paint so there will not be any rust issues. Now is the amazing part. This trigger job is for a gun I am building for my son. I put a $209 Jard Drop-In in my AR (this was before I discovered the link above) and the trigger job I did was equal to if not better than the expensive Jard trigger. And it was all built from spare parts except for the JP springs and Set Screws. Good luck |
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I am almost complete with my first AR build. I have posted several questions on here that has helped me build what I feel as a nice budget AR as a first built without compromising quality in any way. I have read several threads about triggers and things to do about triggers. I looked long as hard at what trigger to use and what LPK to purchase when I did. I went with the CMMG because of the fact that they had already polished the contact points and IMHO the trigger feels very nice and crisp but the pull weight is horrible so I just wanted to ask a specific question to those that have tweaked their own triggers that have not spent the 200+ on a nice Timney or Geiselle. I have read where some people have taken the stock spring and triued to bend it around some to take off some of the tension and I have read where people have just used the JP spring kit. I have also read that people that have changed to the JP kit has had issues in not have enough power to ignite so primers on certain ammo so I am just trying to determine the best route to go on this last tweaking of my lower as my upper is on the way and I will be pretty much done once my BCG, Charging handle and rail come other than optics so any help would be appreciated Right now I would say that my trigger pull would be well in excess of 5-6lbs I would rather it be at least 4-4.5. I am more of a do it yourselfer so if this is something I can do without buying and expensive trigger then I would rather try it first. Thanks in advance Try the JP spring kit. If you are worried about light primer strikes on hard cup primers, just select the enhanced reliability kit. This has the yellow trigger spring and red hammer spring. JP spring kits To shorten the take up you can use a trigger adjuster screw. Trigger adjuster The trigger adjuster provides convenience, in that you can adjust the trigger with the grip installed and there are no clearance issues to plan for. For almost no cost you can use a short 1/4-28 set screw in front of your grip screw and you will accomplish the same thing as the trigger adjuster screw. Verify the lengths of both screws so that there is proper clearance. If you choose to do this, post back and someone will give you instructions. Or read more about it in our Build Section stickies. Don't forget to use moly-fortified grease on the sear and disco (contact points) Does this work good? http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/JoeBob_s_Trigger_Adjuster_p/jb-triggeradjuster.htm I just don't wanna buy a gimmick, can someone explain how this item works. Thanks in advance. It's not a gimmick. It is exactly as I posted. It is a convenience item as opposed to the almost no-cost method of using a 1/4-28 setscrew in front of your grip screw. The set screw, whichever one you choose to use, tips the trigger side of the sear and effectively shortens take-up. The trigger will break sooner. It does not lighten the trigger. Brownells sells another brand for $48. A machinist on another board issues these instructions with his AR Trigger Adjusters...... To install the adjuster you can remove upper from lower if you want. Cock the hammer back and set the safety lever to safe. THE LOWER MUST BE ON "SAFE" TO ADJUST CORRECTLY. On the adjuster, remove the set screw all the way. Apply loctite to the set screw and reinstall the way it came out (with hex head going back into grip screw) and run the set screw all the way in. Remove original grip screw making sure not to loose the safety spring and detent. Install adjuster into grip and tighten down completely using a 3/16" allen. Then tighten the set screw using a 2mm or 5/64” allen down until it stops (not tight). At this point the safety lever won't move or will be hard to move, leave it on safe. Back the set screw out 1/8 turn at a time until the safety lever moves freely again. Function test the lower to ensure the hammer and trigger are engaging and releasing properly and that the safety is functioning correctly. Let the loctite dry overnight. This is as far as you can adjust the adjuster without modifying the trigger to allow further adjustment. Here's a GIF of a normal trigger that may help you understand the geometry at work.... AR Trigger Notice where the grip screw bore is. |
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I would not risk light primer strikes with a light hammer spring. There are better ways to improve a mil-spec style trigger.
I've never seen that grip screw with built in trigger travel limiter. It's an interesting solution but costs a lot more than a setscrew. I bought a bag of 25 setscrews from McMaster-Carr for a few bucks, and they have a thread dressing (think Loctite) pre-applied. I've used 10 of them so far. I wouldn't assemble a lower without one. Joe |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am almost complete with my first AR build. I have posted several questions on here that has helped me build what I feel as a nice budget AR as a first built without compromising quality in any way. I have read several threads about triggers and things to do about triggers. I looked long as hard at what trigger to use and what LPK to purchase when I did. I went with the CMMG because of the fact that they had already polished the contact points and IMHO the trigger feels very nice and crisp but the pull weight is horrible so I just wanted to ask a specific question to those that have tweaked their own triggers that have not spent the 200+ on a nice Timney or Geiselle. I have read where some people have taken the stock spring and triued to bend it around some to take off some of the tension and I have read where people have just used the JP spring kit. I have also read that people that have changed to the JP kit has had issues in not have enough power to ignite so primers on certain ammo so I am just trying to determine the best route to go on this last tweaking of my lower as my upper is on the way and I will be pretty much done once my BCG, Charging handle and rail come other than optics so any help would be appreciated Right now I would say that my trigger pull would be well in excess of 5-6lbs I would rather it be at least 4-4.5. I am more of a do it yourselfer so if this is something I can do without buying and expensive trigger then I would rather try it first. Thanks in advance Try the JP spring kit. If you are worried about light primer strikes on hard cup primers, just select the enhanced reliability kit. This has the yellow trigger spring and red hammer spring. JP spring kits To shorten the take up you can use a trigger adjuster screw. Trigger adjuster The trigger adjuster provides convenience, in that you can adjust the trigger with the grip installed and there are no clearance issues to plan for. For almost no cost you can use a short 1/4-28 set screw in front of your grip screw and you will accomplish the same thing as the trigger adjuster screw. Verify the lengths of both screws so that there is proper clearance. If you choose to do this, post back and someone will give you instructions. Or read more about it in our Build Section stickies. Don't forget to use moly-fortified grease on the sear and disco (contact points) Does this work good? http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/JoeBob_s_Trigger_Adjuster_p/jb-triggeradjuster.htm I just don't wanna buy a gimmick, can someone explain how this item works. Thanks in advance. It's not a gimmick. It is exactly as I posted. It is a convenience item as opposed to the almost no-cost method of using a 1/4-28 setscrew in front of your grip screw. The set screw, whichever one you choose to use, tips the trigger side of the sear and effectively shortens take-up. The trigger will break sooner. It does not lighten the trigger. Brownells sells another brand for $48. A machinist on another board issues these instructions with his AR Trigger Adjusters...... To install the adjuster you can remove upper from lower if you want. Cock the hammer back and set the safety lever to safe. THE LOWER MUST BE ON "SAFE" TO ADJUST CORRECTLY. On the adjuster, remove the set screw all the way. Apply loctite to the set screw and reinstall the way it came out (with hex head going back into grip screw) and run the set screw all the way in. Remove original grip screw making sure not to loose the safety spring and detent. Install adjuster into grip and tighten down completely using a 3/16" allen. Then tighten the set screw using a 2mm or 5/64” allen down until it stops (not tight). At this point the safety lever won't move or will be hard to move, leave it on safe. Back the set screw out 1/8 turn at a time until the safety lever moves freely again. Function test the lower to ensure the hammer and trigger are engaging and releasing properly and that the safety is functioning correctly. Let the loctite dry overnight. This is as far as you can adjust the adjuster without modifying the trigger to allow further adjustment. Here's a GIF of a normal trigger that may help you understand the geometry at work.... AR Trigger Notice where the grip screw bore is. Awesome, thank you! I see how it works now, I’m going to order one from JoeBobs tonight. |
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the set screw thread is stickied, titled "Trigger Work?" here's the link for bending and cutting the springs. i did it on my PSA lpk, and its noticably lighter than stock. I don't see a link. sorry, here it is. http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm |
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All that "trigger adjuster" is going to do is get rid of trigger creep. It's not gonna lighten the trigger.
If you really want a good trigger pull, do the 15min trigger job, bend the springs, make a speed hammer, and do the set screw mod. My best AR was at 3.7lbs with that mod. I paid around $3 to do it(3 ARs). No light primer strikes, and I could even use my .22 kit with no issues. |
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I cut down a standard mill-spec hammer and installed the yellow spring kit. I also did the Flitz thing on the sear points and lubed the contact area with Honda 60% moly grease.
The trigger pull is much lighter, a very noticable difference. I can't imagine a trigger that could possibly be any better for any amount of money. 
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Quoted: I cut down a standard mill-spec hammer and installed the yellow spring kit. I also did the Flitz thing on the sear points and lubed the contact area with Honda 60% moly grease. The trigger pull is much lighter, a very noticable difference. I can't imagine a trigger that could possibly be any better for any amount of money. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8195/8113471776_9dd4dbb33f_c.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8056/8113463861_f6d1b8752f_c.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8056/8113473114_6f660093f7_c.jpg Very nice, thanks for the pictures. |
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Hell, I've played with all of those so called trigger enhancements.
I say piss on all of them. Not worth the time wasted. Buy a Geissele, or go home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only trigger I use on any of my AR style weapons, is a SSD-3G. Try one and you will never look back at all of the crap home made fixes out there. Bob |
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Hell, I've played with all of those so called trigger enhancements. I say piss on all of them. Not worth the time wasted. Buy a Geissele, or go home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only trigger I use on any of my AR style weapons, is a SSD-3G. Try one and you will never look back at all of the crap home made fixes out there. Bob Try decaf. |
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Hell, I've played with all of those so called trigger enhancements. I say piss on all of them. Not worth the time wasted. Buy a Geissele, or go home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only trigger I use on any of my AR style weapons, is a SSD-3G. Try one and you will never look back at all of the crap home made fixes out there. Bob Try decaf. Try a Geissele! |
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[If you are worried about light primer strikes on hard cup primers, just select the enhanced reliability kit.
This has the yellow trigger spring and red hammer spring. JP spring kits On their website, it says not to use it w/ mil-spec trigger? would there be any issues using the red hammer spring on a stock mil spec trigger? I would like to make it as reliable as possible. |
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On their website, it says not to use it w/ mil-spec trigger? They CAN be used with mil spec triggers or JP triggers. would there be any issues using the red hammer spring on a stock mil spec trigger? I would like to make it as reliable as possible.
No issues here. I have a yellow/yellow set and a yellow/red set in two rigs that have mil spec triggers. |
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Hell, I've played with all of those so called trigger enhancements. I say piss on all of them. Not worth the time wasted. Buy a Geissele, or go home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only trigger I use on any of my AR style weapons, is a SSD-3G. Try one and you will never look back at all of the crap home made fixes out there. Bob Try decaf. Just to clarify things. I did that set screw fix with a Geissele ACG. While the take up is almost nothing, the trigger is still gritty ( but better than standard Mil. Spec. ). As far as stoning the mating surfaces. Remember these pieces are only case hardened. So that means somewhere between .005-.015. Easy enough to stone through the case hardening. While the trigger is better than it was ( no long gritty takeup ) it's not the cats ass. Because the short take up is still gritty. While it might be fine for a lot of shooters. It's not fine for this guy, that fired his first M16 in Basic training in 1969. It will be replaced by a Geissele, when I have the funds. Yea I live on a fixed income. But I will still install a SD-3G in that weapon. 
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Just to clarify things. I did that set screw fix with a Geissele ACG. While the take up is almost nothing, the trigger is still gritty ( but better than standard Mil. Spec. ). As far as stoning the mating surfaces. Remember these pieces are only case hardened. So that means somewhere between .005-.015. Easy enough to stone through the case hardening. While the trigger is better than it was ( no long gritty takeup ) it's not the cats ass. Because the short take up is still gritty. While it might be fine for a lot of shooters. It's not fine for this guy, that fired his first M16 in Basic training in 1969. It will be replaced by a Geissele, when I have the funds. Yea I live on a fixed income. But I will still install a SD-3G in that weapon. I took my trigger group out and cleaned all the lube off. I put some Flitz on the sear contact points, put the thing back together and pulled the trigger about a dozen times. I put more Flitz in there and did it again. I took the whole thing apart again and cleaned all the Flittz off, then I cleaned it again. Lubed it all up and put some Honda 60% moly grease on the contact points and now it's smooth like butta. Amazingly smooth. It's worth a try. |
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