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esa17
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Posted: 8/8/2011 12:16:02 PM
I've seen many times where someone will send their rifle off to be tweaked and have "trigger work" done but I don't really know what it means when I read that.

What does that entail? Are there modifications or changes someone who is mechanically inclined can make to their trigger group? I'm not talking full-auto mods. I can't afford the ammo or the legal bills associated with that.

Is it possible to change spring tension or polish your trigger group parts on your own?
jtap
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Posted: 8/8/2011 12:45:19 PM
I have read about people replacing their trigger with a rock river arms 2 stage trigger to get a better feel. the words "match grade" are then thrown around. you can buy the rra 2 stage trigger parts kit from their website. I don't know if that would compare or how it would compare to whatever these people you would send it to would do. I'd rather do it myself and not send off the gun, personally.
kaos
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Posted: 8/8/2011 12:57:26 PM
I sent Bill Springfield a few hammer and trigger sets (keep them paired, with springs) and got back some nice stuff for a few builds I did.
I haven't used him for a bit, but I'm still happy with the work.

http://www.triggerwork.net/ar15s.html
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I agree with uxb
esa17
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Posted: 8/8/2011 1:42:08 PM
Originally Posted By jtap:
I have read about people replacing their trigger with a rock river arms 2 stage trigger to get a better feel. the words "match grade" are then thrown around. you can buy the rra 2 stage trigger parts kit from their website. I don't know if that would compare or how it would compare to whatever these people you would send it to would do. I'd rather do it myself and not send off the gun, personally.


I'm the "do it yourself" type, but I'm not sure what to "do" to a trigger to make it smoother. The only thing I can thing of to do is polish the individual parts.

I'm really not even sure where I'd start. Maybe I should just buy a few cheap triggers and tinker with them till I screw them up.
jtap
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Posted: 8/8/2011 2:57:16 PM
I like what kaos is saying if you just have to send off parts of the trigger but like you are saying, if you aren't replacing any parts it would seem like it should be some simple modifications (like polishing, as you are saying). I don't know how complex it really is. I am curious though.
kwrangln
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Posted: 8/8/2011 6:53:47 PM
You can do it yourself and end up with a much improved trigger for under $20.

Set screw in the grip screw hole to take out some of the trigger pretravel, bob the hammer, set of JP springs, and lightly polish the sear surface. There are a few write ups out there, and I know there's been at least 2 threads on the subject in the last week.
Jason85
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Posted: 8/8/2011 8:25:00 PM
this helped mine out alot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJegVLr1rEU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVhJNEX6alQ
Another-Bill
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Posted: 8/8/2011 8:39:38 PM
Happiness is a warm gun,
Bang bang, shoot shoot.

The Beatles
Nov. 1968
esa17
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:07:27 AM
Thanks guys!
MGP
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:46:37 AM
Originally Posted By kaos:
I sent Bill Springfield a few hammer and trigger sets (keep them paired, with springs) and got back some nice stuff for a few builds I did.
I haven't used him for a bit, but I'm still happy with the work.

http://www.triggerwork.net/ar15s.html



The only way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jdoming728
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Posted: 8/9/2011 12:10:02 PM
Normally I just polish and debur everything in the FCG and the polish is just for smooth operation... They wear in anyways but since I have had some disconnectors not work right I do this before I install them into the lower...Unless its a match rifle it not really needed more than just wanted...
A Man dont have to die to go to hell!!
kwrangln
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Posted: 8/9/2011 12:53:33 PM
Since arf keeps archiving threads and the search sucks, I'll throw up some pics again..

1. Tap the grip screw hole all the way through.



2. Take your run of the mill LPK hammer and cut the crap out of it to lighten it up. Touch it up with a spray of paint when you're done. An object at rest stays at rest until acted upon. A heavy hammer takes more force to accelerate than a light hammer. Since I use light springs, the light hammer allows them to accelerate it to full travle speed alleviating light strikes.



3. Add in some light weight springs, they are cheap and work great.


4. Clean up the machining marks on the sear surface. These are what gives you that gravel road trigger pull.
Before.

After.

My tool of choice is a small ceramic knife sharpening stone. Very fine cut and a nice flat surface. You don't need to take much off, and be careful to keep the sear flat on the stone, you don't want to change any angles.


5. Put it all together. FIrst you'll need a set screw and some blue locktite.


Run that puppy up the grip screw hole untill it contacts the bottom of the trigger.


Hold the trigger to the rear and cock the hammer so that it is caught by the disconnector.


Then let go of the trigger and back out the set screw until the hammer falls from the disconnector to the sear.


Function check and adjust as necessary. You may have interference issues with the safety, if so then use a round file to make a groove in the back upper surface of the trigger so the safety clears. Once everything is good, set it aside and let the locktite set up.

6. Go to the range and see just how good the trigger feels now, you'll be amazed.
esa17
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:11:16 PM
That looks great but it leaves me with a question....What does the setscrew do for the function of the action?
kwrangln
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:16:43 PM
Originally Posted By esa17:
That looks great but it leaves me with a question....What does the setscrew do for the function of the action?


It takes up the pretravel so you have a shorter trigger pull.

Pull the upper off your rifle, cock the hammer (don't let the hammer drop on the mag catch, catch it with your thumb) and pull the trigger. Notice how far you pull the trigger before the hammer drops.

esa17
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:24:40 PM
Originally Posted By kwrangln:
Originally Posted By esa17:
That looks great but it leaves me with a question....What does the setscrew do for the function of the action?


It takes up the pretravel so you have a shorter trigger pull.

Pull the upper off your rifle, cock the hammer (don't let the hammer drop on the mag catch, catch it with your thumb) and pull the trigger. Notice how far you pull the trigger before the hammer drops.



So essentially it's a permanent mod that makes the trigger function as if it's always in the 2nd stage of a 2 stage trigger? The rifle I'm planning on doing this to is my hunting rig in 6.8. Would your mods be a terrible idea?
kwrangln
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:43:27 PM
Originally Posted By esa17:
Originally Posted By kwrangln:
Originally Posted By esa17:
That looks great but it leaves me with a question....What does the setscrew do for the function of the action?


It takes up the pretravel so you have a shorter trigger pull.

Pull the upper off your rifle, cock the hammer (don't let the hammer drop on the mag catch, catch it with your thumb) and pull the trigger. Notice how far you pull the trigger before the hammer drops.



So essentially it's a permanent mod that makes the trigger function as if it's always in the 2nd stage of a 2 stage trigger? The rifle I'm planning on doing this to is my hunting rig in 6.8. Would your mods be a terrible idea?


It's not permanent, you can always remove the set screw and repalce the lpk for $50 or so. Only done this on stock parts, so no idea if you have a 2 stage. Worth it? Hell yea. If you don't like it you can go back to stock or buy an aftermarket trigger. It's a low cost high reward project. Since you aren't touching the disconnector or changing angles on anything there is no concern about making it double fire or anything.

Give it a shot. Just remember it's better to go too light on the polishing and have to redo it than to get heavy handed and really screw the pooch.

esa17
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Posted: 8/9/2011 2:54:49 PM
I'm buying a new hammer and spring set today, along with some anti-roll pins I think.

I've never tapped a lower before, what kind of lube do you use? Any other tips for tapping the lower?
kwrangln
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Posted: 8/9/2011 3:18:23 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 3:19:02 PM by kwrangln]
just use a 1/4 x 28 NF tap, and use whatever oil you have laying around. You are only cutting a couple threads towards the inside of the reciever. Just spin the tap into the grip screw threads being careful not to cross thread em and continue until the tap bottoms out and you can see it on the inside of the reciever. Good to go, nothing to it.

edit: no real need for the anti roll pins, the stock ones work just fine.
Another-Bill
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Posted: 8/10/2011 5:43:30 AM
Originally Posted By esa17:
Originally Posted By kwrangln:
Originally Posted By esa17:
That looks great but it leaves me with a question....What does the setscrew do for the function of the action?


It takes up the pretravel so you have a shorter trigger pull.

Pull the upper off your rifle, cock the hammer (don't let the hammer drop on the mag catch, catch it with your thumb) and pull the trigger. Notice how far you pull the trigger before the hammer drops.



So essentially it's a permanent mod that makes the trigger function as if it's always in the 2nd stage of a 2 stage trigger? The rifle I'm planning on doing this to is my hunting rig in 6.8. Would your mods be a terrible idea?


The stock trigger is a single stage trigger. It is still acting like a single stage trigger just without the "after" pull.

On the JP (company that makes the springs) Match Single Stage Trigger, there are screws that you adjust to eliminate the "take-up" or pre-travel as well as the post-travel which he is doing with the set screw through the hand grip hole. Plus their parts are not cast surface-hardened parts. They are precision machined parts and properly hardened to last year and years of service life. I have one that is now going on it's 16th birthday, still crisp at 2.75 pounds.

I also once had a stock part sear off in a match due to improper gunsmith heat treatment on his refinement.





Bill
Happiness is a warm gun,
Bang bang, shoot shoot.

The Beatles
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cohrs
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Posted: 8/10/2011 6:32:34 AM
This topic should be a sticky.. Every week someone asks "can I improve the stock trigger group" or "will I be happy with the stock trigger" and the search option is not the greatest––-I have better luck searching the archives via google. Any votes for a sticky???
esa17
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Posted: 8/16/2011 10:16:09 PM
The trigger is polished and the springs adjusted! It's great so far!

Once I find the set-screws I'll tap the lower. Hopefully I can find them locally because I don't want to pay $13 shipping on $.35 worth of hardware.
c3jy
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Posted: 8/16/2011 10:36:48 PM
[Last Edit: 8/16/2011 10:49:51 PM by c3jy]
I just finished this. The only difference was my Spikes lower was already drilled and tapped all the way through. It makes a HUGE difference. Next on the list I’m gonna install the JP yellow reduced power spring kit and thought I’d also go with their speed hammer.

Originally Posted By esa17:
The trigger is polished and the springs adjusted! It's great so far!

Once I find the set-screws I'll tap the lower. Hopefully I can find them locally because I don't want to pay $13 shipping on $.35 worth of hardware.


I found my set screw at the local commercialized hardware store. 69 cents for 2. I also got a 1/4" thick heavy nylon washer and shaved 2 sides to fit into the grip. My factory bolt was a little long and couldn't find a 3/4" 1/4 x28. So far, no problems and everything functions perfect.

Wanted to add:
I was able to reduce my trigger pull to 1/8” with everything functioning as designed. Even performed the “drop” test from 6” onto the padded floor. Sorry but I’m not dropping it in the driveway.


esa17
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Posted: 8/18/2011 8:30:54 PM
I finished the project today. My trigger and hammer are polished but I wasn't brave enough to shave the hammer. I found everything I needed at Lowes and spent last night tapping the lower, it went perfectly.

This afternoon following work I finished the trigger work. While I'm not sure exactly how much travel I took up it is a noticeable difference. I'm amazed at how noticeable the difference is between a stock trigger and the modified trigger. Even my wife was able to tell the difference and she hates my BRD.

Thanks for the help and advice gents!
kwrangln
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Posted: 8/18/2011 9:09:00 PM
You may get away with not cutting the hammer, but if you get light strikes, it's the cure with the lighter springs.

Congrats on taking the step to do it yourself.
esa17
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Posted: 8/18/2011 9:19:40 PM
Tomorrow is the range test so we'll find out. I can't wait.
cohrs
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Posted: 8/18/2011 10:23:12 PM
Still think this mod to the stock trigger group should be a sticky.. Anyway would this set up work in the DPMS 308 platform? Any reason why the JP springs would not work in that style lower?
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