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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Barrel Installation (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/28/2012 11:44:45 AM EDT
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I am about to install my barrel and have a question. Do you apply moly grease to both the barrel nut threads and the threads of the upper receiver or just to one or the other?
Thanks, Moose1023 |
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Sorry. Didn't know that you couldn't ask questions on the forum. Guess i should have thought about it. You're on the right track, asking about grease for a barrel install. I grease the receiver threads and the shoulder on the BE where the nut rides. Aero Shell 33MS meets spec but is not easy to find locally for many of us. Valvoline VV 632 Moly-Fortified Multi-Purpose Grease is similar in composition and is very easy to find at your local auto parts house. Use a good receiver restraint, try to stay on the lower side of the torque range and you will be GTG. |
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If you put an even amount on the barrel nut it should make contact with upper receiver threads. That moly grease is messy stuff lol You haven't seen messy until you use Never Seeze as Vltor recommends. Or: http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/linberkim/PossumFat.png Or Permatex Anti-Seize Compound. I have a can from 1976 that gets all over you if you walk within 5 feet of it. 
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You are not going to score points for conservation.
The excess can be wiped off. The mil-spec grease is readily available over the internet same as most of us get most of our parts. Being lazy I will order mine, but I suspect a trip to the nearest small airport would be productive if I could not stand the wait. |
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You are not going to score points for conservation. The excess can be wiped off. Very true. The mil-spec grease is readily available over the internet same as most of us get most of our parts.
Yep, but with shipping it's an expense that turns some away since we're not needing any aircraft parts to combine shipping with most of the time. Being lazy I will order mine, but I suspect a trip to the nearest small airport would be productive if I could not stand the wait.
This usually doesn't end in success. We've had members driving all over on this particular mission to no avail. What happens is that the new builder gets all his tools and parts finally together and alas, discovers that he needs grease. Grease is often the forgotten component so then all sorts of things are substituted to avoid another dreaded wait. That is why a locally available grease that is similar in composition to AS 33MS is needed. Valvoline VV 632 Moly-Fortified is just that. |
| I'm glad that someone posted about this because me being a brand new AR builder I didn't know I needed greese for the build and I've read and research for a long while now and would have been bummed if I had figured this out later in the build and had to wait....yes I would have waited and done it the right way but I would have been bummed. Are there other grease point besides the barrel for a new build? |
| Not wanting to take the chance, I ordered a tube of the aeroshell 33ms. I found it at a site called PILOTHQ.COM. It came to about $20.00 shipped. That was the cheapest I could find on-line. More grease then I will ever need but I wanted the correct mil-spec grease. |
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You are not going to score points for conservation. The excess can be wiped off. Very true. The mil-spec grease is readily available over the internet same as most of us get most of our parts.
Yep, but with shipping it's an expense that turns some away since we're not needing any aircraft parts to combine shipping with most of the time. Being lazy I will order mine, but I suspect a trip to the nearest small airport would be productive if I could not stand the wait.
This usually doesn't end in success. We've had members driving all over on this particular mission to no avail. What happens is that the new builder gets all his tools and parts finally together and alas, discovers that he needs grease. Grease is often the forgotten component so then all sorts of things are substituted to avoid another dreaded wait. That is why a locally available grease that is similar in composition to AS 33MS is needed. Valvoline VV 632 Moly-Fortified is just that. I am pretty sure the guys that spec’d the grease could have chosen a motor pool grease or anti-seize instead of an aviation grease. I see that as a pretty good reason to stick with the mil-spec. Especially when giving advice. I have no doubt there are grease formulations that are equivalent or better than the mil-spec. I also think the mil-spec grease has a 40 year track record for this application under a wide variety of conditions and usage. There are always people who will go cheap and/or convenient for whatever reason and without question that is their prerogative. |
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You are not going to score points for conservation. The excess can be wiped off. Very true. The mil-spec grease is readily available over the internet same as most of us get most of our parts.
Yep, but with shipping it's an expense that turns some away since we're not needing any aircraft parts to combine shipping with most of the time. Being lazy I will order mine, but I suspect a trip to the nearest small airport would be productive if I could not stand the wait.
This usually doesn't end in success. We've had members driving all over on this particular mission to no avail. What happens is that the new builder gets all his tools and parts finally together and alas, discovers that he needs grease. Grease is often the forgotten component so then all sorts of things are substituted to avoid another dreaded wait. That is why a locally available grease that is similar in composition to AS 33MS is needed. Valvoline VV 632 Moly-Fortified is just that. I am pretty sure the guys that spec’d the grease could have chosen a motor pool grease or anti-seize instead of an aviation grease.
I see that as a pretty good reason to stick with the mil-spec. Especially when giving advice. Agreed. I always mention Aero Shell 33MS and that's what I use. Aviation grease has to play well with aluminum and it was already in the inventory. I have no doubt there are grease formulations that are equivalent or better than the mil-spec.
I also think the mil-spec grease has a 40 year track record for this application under a wide variety of conditions and usage. 33 was superseded by 33MS not too long ago. Methinks the grease originally used back in 1958 was different yet. There are always people who will go cheap and/or convenient for whatever reason and without question that is their prerogative.
Yes, and that's why I mention Valvoline VV 632, developed for Ford Motor Company, because it's very similar in composition to AS 33MS. Almost always available at the corner auto parts house. |
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I'm glad that someone posted about this because me being a brand new AR builder I didn't know I needed greese for the build and I've read and research for a long while now and would have been bummed if I had figured this out later in the build and had to wait....yes I would have waited and done it the right way but I would have been bummed. Are there other grease point besides the barrel for a new build? Yes, but very few. Any threaded fastener. Trigger "sear" surfaces. Detent tips/raceways. Note that these are all confined areas. Grease has a habit of being of dirt magnet, so it is not recommended for more open areas of the weapon. There, oil (CLP) is a much better choice. AR Lube (oil) Points |
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I'm glad that someone posted about this because me being a brand new AR builder I didn't know I needed greese for the build and I've read and research for a long while now and would have been bummed if I had figured this out later in the build and had to wait....yes I would have waited and done it the right way but I would have been bummed. Are there other grease point besides the barrel for a new build? You need to sit down and read the TM … page by page. The mil-spec grease is also specified for installing the receiver extension. |
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Yes, and that's why I mention Valvoline VV 632, developed for Ford Motor Company, because it's very similar in composition to AS 33MS. Almost always available at the corner auto parts house. How very similar? Do you mean it meets 75% of the mil-spec tests or what? |
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The Valvoline grease looks good, but it is speced as having anywhere from 1.5% to 5% molybdenum disulfide. MIL-G-21164D calls for between 4.5% and 5.5% moly. That means that it might not do what the grease that is called for needs to do. So you save $17 buying that instead of a spec-compliant grease... Are you going to go cheap on your barrel? On your lower and upper? Spend a few bucks for the right stuff and you will never have to buy more.
To the OP, use the grease sparingly and wipe off the excess. It doesn't hurt to put some on either the inside flange of the nut or the front of the barrel flange, either, but again, go lightly. And use the right procedure, which includes torquing to 30 ft-lb at least 3 times before trying to go for gas tube notch alignment. Good luck, and enjoy this new facet of BRD! |
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Yes, and that's why I mention Valvoline VV 632, developed for Ford Motor Company, because it's very similar in composition to AS 33MS. Almost always available at the corner auto parts house. How very similar? Do you mean it meets 75% of the mil-spec tests or what? Permission granted to read the specs of each, publish your findings and assign a percentage. |
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The Valvoline grease looks good, but it is speced as having anywhere from 1.5% to 5% molybdenum disulfide. MIL-G-21164D calls for between 4.5% and 5.5% moly. That means that it might not do what the grease that is called for needs to do. I use AS 33MS myself, but for a substitute in a pinch I would confidently use Valvoline VV 632. This is a low-tech application and I would wager that the early greases used on the AR barrel nut in the 50's and 60's would not measure up to that Valvoline flavor. Armorers of that era, what did you use ? |
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Yes, and that's why I mention Valvoline VV 632, developed for Ford Motor Company, because it's very similar in composition to AS 33MS. Almost always available at the corner auto parts house. How very similar? Do you mean it meets 75% of the mil-spec tests or what? Permission granted to read the specs of each, publish your findings and assign a percentage. Very gracious of you to extend your permission. Actually I have tried to make the comparison long before this thread. I have never been able to find enough testing data to do more than make a WAG as to how similar any given substitute might be. Given your strong support for the Valvoline grease I was naturally curious if you could back it up. |
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I've used white lithium "lubriplate", Valvoline, Mobil synthetic, and other random wheel bearing greases, Permatex Anti-seize, and what ever was in the closest grease gun or tub at hand and I've never had a problem yet with install or removal when changing up barrels.
What will happen if you don't use mil-spec grease???? |
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high temp wheel bearing grease is generally white lithium based and I have used it for barrel installs and all the other closed up parts and threads on my ars.
I am glad the OP was not asking what type of locktite to use. improper or lack of grease when installing a barrel could result in galling or with time if the grease escapes corrosion and you won't be able to remove the barrel in the future. |
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How come every time grease is brought up we always get in a discussion about using the milspec grease. Always happens without fail. Some want to be ultra-correct and I confess that I'm on that side. Others use whatever. And yet others use nothing. Everyone's way is the best way. |
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Very gracious of you to extend your permission. Actually I have tried to make the comparison long before this thread. I have never been able to find enough testing data to do more than make a WAG as to how similar any given substitute might be. Given your strong support for the Valvoline grease I was naturally curious if you could back it up. I just look at it and it looks like AS 33MS....same color. Then I sniff it.....smells like AS 33MS. Kind of seat of the pants testing, so you may want to try a more scientific method. |
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Very gracious of you to extend your permission. Actually I have tried to make the comparison long before this thread. I have never been able to find enough testing data to do more than make a WAG as to how similar any given substitute might be. Given your strong support for the Valvoline grease I was naturally curious if you could back it up. I just look at it and it looks like AS 33MS....same color. Then I sniff it.....smells like AS 33MS. Kind of seat of the pants testing, so you may want to try a more scientific method. 
You left out the taste test, but I am not willing to go that far so you win. |
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high temp wheel bearing grease is generally white lithium based and I have used it for barrel installs and all the other closed up parts and threads on my ars. I am glad the OP was not asking what type of locktite to use. improper or lack of grease when installing a barrel could result in galling or with time if the grease escapes corrosion and you won't be able to remove the barrel in the future. He wasn't asking what type of grease to use anyway. He wanted to know if he should put it on both sets of threads. The ones that are going to be sliding against each other during the whole installation process. It is kind of like asking, if I put vaseline on one side of my ass crack, is the other side going to get vaseline on it as I walk around? |
| I used to build a lot of motors since my forte was Corvette restoration and I like to use Cam Lube and only on the threads I never use it on the face where the barrel touches the receiver.. I have never had on stick yet.... also make sure you torque it down properly and make sure the surfaces are clean before you put the parts together... |
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H53expert,
That is twice now that you have made a smart ass remark about a question that I asked. What seems to be your problem? I am so sorry we all can't be experts like you. Maybe you can tell me where I can purchase a copy of the book that you wrote on AR15 Maintenance. If not keep your mouth shut. Otherwise IM me and we can discuss the matter more in private although I don't want to interrupt the exciting life that you no doubt lead. |
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H53expert, That is twice now that you have made a smart ass remark about a question that I asked. What seems to be your problem? I am so sorry we all can't be experts like you. Maybe you can tell me where I can purchase a copy of the book that you wrote on AR15 Maintenance. If not keep your mouth shut. Otherwise IM me and we can discuss the matter more in private although I don't want to interrupt the exciting life that you no doubt lead. Do you meant he 'buttcheek' comment? Well ya gotta admit ... it wasn't an entirely unreasonable response. The buttcheek thing was kinda funny and a pretty accurate analogy. EDIT: Sorry, I just saw the "think about it" comment. Yeah that wasn't necessary 
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Maybe it's me being OCD, but I tend to lube both pieces sometimes just to be thorough. Any excess lube gets pushed out, but never cause me any harm. |
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H53expert, That is twice now that you have made a smart ass remark about a question that I asked. What seems to be your problem? I am so sorry we all can't be experts like you. Maybe you can tell me where I can purchase a copy of the book that you wrote on AR15 Maintenance. If not keep your mouth shut. Otherwise IM me and we can discuss the matter more in private although I don't want to interrupt the exciting life that you no doubt lead. Do you meant he 'buttcheek' comment? Well ya gotta admit ... it wasn't an entirely unreasonable response. The buttcheek thing was kinda funny and a pretty accurate analogy. EDIT: Sorry, I just saw the "think about it" comment. Yeah that wasn't necessary
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Maybe it's me being OCD, but I tend to lube both pieces sometimes just to be thorough. Any excess lube gets pushed out, but never cause me any harm. The problem with the world is that people take things too seriously. The butt cheek moment was meant to be funny. The original statement...well, you know the old saying. Give a man a fish... |
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The problem with the world h53expert is that I had a legitimate question. I had never installed a barrel before and did not want to mess it up, as I believe, " do it right do it once". So I turned to the forum members who might have much more experience installing an ar barrel and instead of offering a useful opinion or teaching your knowledge to someone else you decided to waste my time as well as yours with unnecessary sarcastic comments.That is the problem with the world as I see it, self absorbed know it alls who think they know everything and are better than everybody else and try to prove it by insulting people so they can feel better about themselves. I have read some of your previous posts where you asked for advise on checking headspace and everyone who answered offered knowledgeable insight. What if someone just posted "DUDE, THINK ABOUT IT". What would you have said then.
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The problem with the world h53expert is that I had a legitimate question. I had never installed a barrel before and did not want to mess it up, as I believe, " do it right do it once". So I turned to the forum members who might have much more experience installing an ar barrel and instead of offering a useful opinion or teaching your knowledge to someone else you decided to waste my time as well as yours with unnecessary sarcastic comments.That is the problem with the world as I see it, self absorbed know it alls who think they know everything and are better than everybody else and try to prove it by insulting people so they can feel better about themselves. I have read some of your previous posts where you asked for advise on checking headspace and everyone who answered offered knowledgeable insight. What if someone just posted "DUDE, THINK ABOUT IT". What would you have said then. Well, considering that is a completely different level of maintenance or skill set, it isn't a likely scenario. In either case, I probably would have laughed and wrote that person off because I am not a whiny little crybaby bitch. |
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The problem with the world h53expert is that I had a legitimate question. I had never installed a barrel before and did not want to mess it up, as I believe, " do it right do it once". So I turned to the forum members who might have much more experience installing an ar barrel and instead of offering a useful opinion or teaching your knowledge to someone else you decided to waste my time as well as yours with unnecessary sarcastic comments.That is the problem with the world as I see it, self absorbed know it alls who think they know everything and are better than everybody else and try to prove it by insulting people so they can feel better about themselves. I have read some of your previous posts where you asked for advise on checking headspace and everyone who answered offered knowledgeable insight. What if someone just posted "DUDE, THINK ABOUT IT". What would you have said then. Quoted:
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The problem with the world h53expert is that I had a legitimate question. I had never installed a barrel before and did not want to mess it up, as I believe, " do it right do it once". So I turned to the forum members who might have much more experience installing an ar barrel and instead of offering a useful opinion or teaching your knowledge to someone else you decided to waste my time as well as yours with unnecessary sarcastic comments.That is the problem with the world as I see it, self absorbed know it alls who think they know everything and are better than everybody else and try to prove it by insulting people so they can feel better about themselves. I have read some of your previous posts where you asked for advise on checking headspace and everyone who answered offered knowledgeable insight. What if someone just posted "DUDE, THINK ABOUT IT". What would you have said then. Well, considering that is a completely different level of maintenance or skill set, it isn't a likely scenario. In either case, I probably would have laughed and wrote that person off because I am not a whiny little crybaby bitch. You guys both see that little stack of smiley faces to the left of the box you're typing in...? Using them makes extending sarcasm possible over the interwebs. 
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There are plenty of applications where it calls out to lube both surfaces. Damn near any bearing surface while building an engine is recommended to lube both pieces. Applying glue in most situations have you put it on both, et cetera. So the OP's question is somewhat reasonable having it be his first time. Chances of coating all surfaces of the thread is greatly increased if you do apply it to both.
That being said. I just installed a barrel, coated one surface and used a Valvoline high temp bearing grease. If something happens, shit happens. |
| Wow h53expert, what a mature response. I didn't have time to read all 3000+ posts you have written. Time to get a life and move out of your parents basement asshole. I apologize if I have offended anyone on the forum. This will be my last response to a loser who probably spends the majority of his time playing Call of Duty and then thinks he is an expert gunsmith. |
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Wow h53expert, what a mature response. I didn't have time to read all 3000+ posts you have written. Time to get a life and move out of your parents basement asshole. I apologize if I have offended anyone on the forum. This will be my last response to a loser who probably spends the majority of his time playing Call of Duty and then thinks he is an expert gunsmith. Bitch please. I've owned my own home since 2000, which I purchased while on active duty in the Marine Corps, in a state 1000 miles away from where my parents live, where I racked up ten years of working on the H53 helicopter, before I transitioned into the nuclear maintenance field. I don't play video games, and I will put my resume up against yours any time of the day. I bet you have been unemployed since you left HS, and based on your temper tantrums, I bet YOU are the one that is still sucking on mamas titty. |
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There are plenty of applications where it calls out to lube both surfaces. Damn near any bearing surface while building an engine is recommended to lube both pieces. Applying glue in most situations have you put it on both, et cetera. So the OP's question is somewhat reasonable having it be his first time. Chances of coating all surfaces of the thread is greatly increased if you do apply it to both. That being said. I just installed a barrel, coated one surface and used a Valvoline high temp bearing grease. If something happens, shit happens. You are talking about bearing surfaces that require at least some presence of lubrication for the initial start-up, before the oil system has time to do its job. That is completely different than simple threads. As far as glues are concerned, there are just as many that say to apply to one side only, as there that say apply to both sides. His question was sooooo "somewhat reasonable" that everyone else started taking it another direction and answering a question he didn't even ask. |
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OH SNAP. Moose1023 are you gonna take that. You obviously been emasculated by a tier 1 marine corp mechanic who hates his parents, and was able to afford a house in NC. think about it?
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Wow h53expert, what a mature response. I didn't have time to read all 3000+ posts you have written. Time to get a life and move out of your parents basement asshole. I apologize if I have offended anyone on the forum. This will be my last response to a loser who probably spends the majority of his time playing Call of Duty and then thinks he is an expert gunsmith. Bitch please. I've owned my own home since 2000, which I purchased while on active duty in the Marine Corps, in a state 1000 miles away from where my parents live, where I racked up ten years of working on the H53 helicopter, before I transitioned into the nuclear maintenance field. I don't play video games, and I will put my resume up against yours any time of the day. I bet you have been unemployed since you left HS, and based on your temper tantrums, I bet YOU are the one that is still sucking on mamas titty. |
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H53expert,
This argument has gone on long enough. After reading that resume, I am willing to admit defeat. I do have one more question before I end this once and for all and DUDE I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ONE. How big was the smile on your parents faces when they found out you would be living 1000 miles away from them?
SEMPER FI Moose1023 |
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Moose, I addressed your question way back on 7/30. Put s small amount of grease on either the outside threads on the upper, or the inside threads on the nut, and a little on either the barrel flange or the inside flange of the barrel nut, then torque to 30 ft-lbs at least three times before trying to align a gas tube notch. Wipe off any excess, and there will be some.
Unfortunately, I didn't lead my post with that, but instead I fell back on my old habit of trying to help people make informed decisions, and first commented that Valvoline's Moly grease doesn't meet the same spec as what the TM calls for... |
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No worries GHPorter. I appreciate all the advice and information that you and the other fellows gave me. No need to apologize for mentioning other topics related to the original question. I consider any information valuable. You can never learn to much and I apologize if any of you guys were offended by anything I said. That was not my intention.Thanks again.
Moose1023
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Interesting...I saw this thread and just finished reading all of it. I looked at it because I just ran out of Aero Shell 33 after using my last little bit last weekend and need more.
..................After carefully considering everything that was said, and taking into account all the information included in this thread, I have decided....I LIKE PIE!!!"....<><....:) P.S. - to the OP, lube both the male and female threads and use a proper grease....<><....
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Barrel Installation (Page 1 of 2)
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