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Posted: 1/12/2012 10:42:11 AM EDT
I've been thinking of getting into making my own lowers and I was wondering if a set up like this would work for finishing an 80% lower?
I already have a Dremel tool like the one in the pic, and i think this would work like an inexpensive drill press. Help me out guys:) |
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Smaller cheapish drill presses are all over the place on the new/used market but your finished product will be fairly rough even if you are fairly clever.
There is quite a bit of metal to be removed in a 80% build , your light weight tool shown might help finish a drill press build but it would be almost impossible to make it work. Then again there are old coots in Afganastan building guns with blacksmith tools |
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I wouldn't want to finish one with a REAL drill press, much less something as anemic as a dremel... But then again, I have a mill in my garage, and I've done a few on it... Same here. I can't imagine how people do this with a drill press! Glad I have a Bridgeport for doing these when I have time. |
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Don't let the nay-sayers scare you off. It can be done. It's not easy, and it's a lot of work. And at the end, even if it doesn't work out, you've only lost the cost of the lower.
I made my first two 80% lowers with a rig very much like that. Minus the vise. Plus a $10.00 (on sale) fixed speed 3/8" hand drill. Used a couple of rulers to measure, and q-tips with the cotton cut off as depth gauges. It's a lot of work, and the high-pitched whine from the cutter makes ear protection mandatory. And it's messy. Aluminum chips get everywhere, and if you use oil to lubricate while cutting it gets thrown out-on your shirt, the wall and the curtains, if you have any, as I did before starting the first lower. You will need a jig-not so much to drill anything, but to hold the lower level so you can get down inside without cutting out through the sidewalls. Recommend Colfax Tactical lowers, as the have the rear shelf already cut. My first one didn't have that feature, and it was a real pain getting that area cleaned out. When I get home after work I'll post pics of my setup-might help you with a few ideas. |
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Yes, you can complete an 80% lower with that, indeed you could make a lower from a block of aluminum with that, however:
1. It will take you a heck of a long time. 2. If you don't have carpal tunnel now you will by the time you are done. 3. If you don't have good mechanical skills to do the layout and/or use good drill jigs and understand the AR functionally to understand where things are critical, there is a good chance you may not have a functional end result. 4. If you complete an 80% lower this way, it is likely to be the only one you ever do once you find how difficult it is without the proper tools. If on the other hand you save up a bit and invest in a good used mill and proper tooling, it will be a joy to complete an 80% and you will move on to doing 30% builds for more challenge. I have a fairly well equipped shop and it takes me a day to complete a 30%, and it is fun, other than getting the aluminum chips out of my hair. Do note, that a good used mill isn't that expensive ($1-2k), however all the tooling you need to really do work adds up fast. Perhaps you can find someone in your area who has a well equipped shop you can use and who can teach you how to operate the machines. I taught shop class to a friend who had never used a mill before or had any shop class at all, and he was able to complete a 30% in a long day. |
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Well I did a couple AK builds and wanted to try a 80% ar build. I talked a couple buddies into going along with the plan. Short answer I would not try with that thing. We used a regular drill press of high quality with fair results, and it was fun rewarding. I would never do it again, just to many cheap lowers on the market to waste all that time. Bob 
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Well I did a couple AK builds and wanted to try a 80% ar build. I talked a couple buddies into going along with the plan. Short answer I would not try with that thing. We used a regular drill press of high quality with fair results, and it was fun rewarding. I would never do it again, just to many cheap lowers on the market to waste all that time. Bob http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b310/bnred9/2009CAR15Build01.jpg That pretty well confirms what I said - If you try it with inadequate equipment you won't want to do another. Try it with good equipment and you will enjoy it and do more and more complex work. |
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I did my first with a drill press and a cheap Harbor Freight XY table. It was a pain but it worked (kinda). I think you COULD use the dremel tool but it would take a long long time. A cheapy drill press would work better and a HF mini-mill would work far better.
(I say almost because somehow I managed to screw it up the first time. It fires just fine...even when its on safe. Now I just use it for a building platform and I may eventually figure out what went wrong and how to fix it.) I eventually got a little HF mini-mill and it works like a champ. Try Craigslist... |
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I did my first with a drill press and a cheap Harbor Freight XY table. It was a pain but it worked (kinda). I think you COULD use the dremel tool but it would take a long long time. A cheapy drill press would work better and a HF mini-mill would work far better. (I say almost because somehow I managed to screw it up the first time. It fires just fine...even when its on safe. Now I just use it for a building platform and I may eventually figure out what went wrong and how to fix it.) I eventually got a little HF mini-mill and it works like a champ. Try Craigslist... The HF mini mill which is a Sieg X2 (Grizzley also sells a version as do others) is a bit on the small side for this. The Sieg X3 mill is another size larger and is a good choice for those who do not have room for a full sized Bridgeport type mill and need a bench mill. |
| I have done two of them using a good, solid drill press with a good 2-axis slide vise. I believe this is the absolute minimum equipment aside from new , sharp endmills. The real problem with anything less is you have little to no control over the cutting process. Don't use a Dremel tool. It will take forever and you won't be satisfied with the results. Wish I could afford a Bridgeport or something similar. |
The first two photos are of my third 80% lower. This one started as a pre-anodized one from Colfax Tactical. You will not save money completing an 80%. They cost more than a completed one. The fun thing about these is that they allow a certain amount of whimsey when adding markings, if you feel like marking the lower. No manufacturer info or serial number is required. Put anything you want on it.
These show the fire control pocket. It's not perfect. But it works. All you are doing is making a big hole in a piece of metal. It's not rocket science. 
This is my setup. A Craftsman rotary grinder and stand. Bought both on sale as no box customer returns at Sears for $35.00. I glued a piece of plastic to the base to make it smoother. For my second and third builds I had a jig from Colfax. That helped for marking the trigger, hammer, and selector holes. For my first, I used an S&W lower as a pattern for marking them. 
This is a lot of work. And when it's done, and you're putting rounds down range with it, you've got something very few folks have. A receiver you actually built, not something you assembled from a bunch of parts. |
Used this jig to hold the lower to drill out as much as i could.
Hand held dremel to finish. Buddies and I have done a few each, they are not perfect in appearance but have function so. Last one took me a 1/2 hour to drill about 2 hours to dremel. They are the most fun to shoot. Think about what you are doing and take your time. |
| A guy out here in california rents his knee mill and jigs for doing 80% lowers and that was still alot of work. law in CA says you gotta build the lower yourself for a pistol ar, which is what i built,so he coaches you on the process and holds your hand but dosen't remove any metal for you.he had a guy come in before me who tried the drill press method and left a few bit tips lost in the aluminum. broke two end mill heads on them. most of the lowers that i've seen done with a drill press and dremel look like sin dipped in mysery. i can see you trying one,MAYBE. if your gonna make a real go of it, get some better equipment. i love doing stuff myself but clint eastwood said it best,"a man's got to know his limitations." in this case, your limiter would be your tools, not your spirit. good luck. |
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Lots of discussion here. I'm surprised how much. Lots of negativity, too. I'm surprised at how much of that as well.
I started using a Dremel setup out of necessity. I live in an apartment, and wanted to try my hand at a lower. Bought a drill press at Harbor Freight, but the landlord saw me bringing it home. His comment was something to the effect that I couldn't have a machine shop in his building. So no drill press. I would imagine that most apartment dwellers are in much the same boat. After the first one, which was difficult, I made another, which was easier, and then another, easier yet. I plan to do several more. My son thought I was crazy to make the effort; after all, a stripped lower costs a lot less than an 80%. And doesn't eat up hours of your life. Or ruin your curtains with oil drops that won't wash out. If you want to do it, then do it. The worst that can happen is you fail. So what. I'm 61 years old and have failed at a million things in my life. I've also succeeded a whole lot, too. A man does have to know his limitations, but you will never know what those are until you test your limits. In all things, not only something as trivial as this. If you never push the envelope, never try something difficult, or new, or walk off the beaten path, how very sad. You will only ever know who you are, not who you might have become. Now we can all stand around in a circle holding hands and singing "goomba-ya." At midnight we'll do the fire walk. And no one will burn his feet. |
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It's not negativity, it's the voice of experience. Many of us have spent years building up a well equipped shop and along the way we've done all manner of machining with less than adequate tools and tooling. We have the experience to know how difficult and uncontrollable things can be with inadequate tools and how vastly better they are with the correct tools.
You don't have to have a giant workspace to be able to properly handle smaller items like AR lowers, something like a Sieg X3 mill sitting on top of a decent rolling toolchest will do. With some care and side guards you can limit the chip debris field as well. Aluminum can readily be cut dry, so you don't need coolant spraying everywhere either, just a little fluid manually applied to taps when tapping is sufficient. None of this requires more than a 4' square work area and it doesn't require a floor that can support a 2,000# Bridgeport. http://www.siegind.com/product.php?id=6 This is a decent benchtop sized machine, and the cost to get one and adequate starter tooling is comparable to a mid range AR. Sieg is a decent company BTW, while they sell through distributors, the home office in China responds promptly to email questions and whatnot and their machines are quite nice. |
| Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm not sure how many of these builds I will do, so having a mill in my garage collecting dust doesnt really excite me very much. I was planning on getting an 80 that has the rear take-down pin area already done jand using a full jig set up just to make it easier, and Ive got access to a shop if the dremel idea goes south but I'd like to keep that as a last resort. Thanks again guys, any more advice would be awesome:) |
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i definitely didn't want to rain on anyones parade, and the world is full of people saying "you can't do that"
so go for it! where there's a will....etc. btw, check this guy's 80%er http://mujahadeenar15a2.tripod.com/ oh, and its obviously somewhat dated, lowers aren't $40 any more and the old ones had the fcg pocket almost finished. that got changed. |
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Here is my lower that I finish with a dremel, I have one of those presses and didn't use it, I don't think I could get it high enough. I just ended up using the router attachment so it could ride along the sides of the lower.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/bobalouy/80ar-5.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/bobalouy/80ar-2.jpg |
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Here is my lower that I finish with a dremel, I have one of those presses and didn't use it, I don't think I could get it high enough. I just ended up using the router attachment so it could ride along the sides of the lower. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/bobalouy/80ar-5.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/bobalouy/80ar-2.jpg That looks quite good, how long did it take from solid to complete FCP? |
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Here is my lower that I finish with a dremel, I have one of those presses and didn't use it, I don't think I could get it high enough. I just ended up using the router attachment so it could ride along the sides of the lower. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/bobalouy/80ar-5.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/bobalouy/80ar-2.jpg Wow, I have to admit that i some pretty impressive machine work for having been done with a Dremel! 
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I love this thread so far. I think the general consensus is that a mill would make it a million times easier. For those not wanting to spend 1-2k on a used one to complete one or two lowers I think the dremel way looks awesome. Please continue :) You hit the nail on the head, there. Lots of folks won't use a drill press or a mill for anything other than lowers. I know I wouldn't. And how many of them are you realistically going to make? Two or three? I've got three done in different configurations, and plan to make two more. That's five ARs. I can only legally build for personal use, and can only shoot one at a time. I do have two commercial rifles, and am selling them to finance the two additional lowers I plan to build. Altogether, I have a total of about $65.00 or so invested in tools. I'm still on my original Craftsman grinder, which shows no sign of stopping. I have bought a few additional cutters, though. The teeth chip off. After about half are gone, I buy another. Takes two per lower. |
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95% LOWER http://www.americanspiritarms.com/lower-receivers/asa-m4-ar-15-95-percent-lower-receiver/ You can get the exact same thing here for less money: https://www.colfaxtactical.com/Products.html The 80% or 95% tag is just a marketing gimmick. A hunk of aluminum either is or is not a firearm as far as the BATFE is concerned. They apply no percentage figures. |
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95% LOWER http://www.americanspiritarms.com/lower-receivers/asa-m4-ar-15-95-percent-lower-receiver/ You can get the exact same thing here for less money: https://www.colfaxtactical.com/Products.html The 80% or 95% tag is just a marketing gimmick. A hunk of aluminum either is or is not a firearm as far as the BATFE is concerned. They apply no percentage figures. It's no marketing gimmick to apply a description that conveys to the potential purchaser the amount of work that will need to be performed to complete the lower. Sure you can and should clearly list the machining operations that have been completed and those remaining to be performed, however 0%-30%-80% or even 95% is very reasonable for conveying the information succinctly. |
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