AR Sponsor
Posted: 12/9/2011 3:08:37 PM EDT
I've begun building my first AR-15, and I'm really excited! 
So far I've got a Palmetto State Armory six-position stock kit for around $45, a Palmetto State Armory lower parts kit for around $50, plus $7 shipping. I also bought a Palmetto State Armory stripped lower receiver on Black Friday for $50 plus $7 shipping and a $25 FFL fee. I've heard that's on the high end of FFL transfer fees, but it's close by and I've done business with them before. Once I go pick the lower receiver from my local FFL dealer tomorrow, my lower will be complete for right at $184. Not too bad. Here's what I think I want in my upper receiver parts: - 16" - 1:7 rifling twist - 5.56 NATO - chrome-lined barrel - drilled for a mid-length gas system - M4 feed ramp cuts in barrel extension and upper receiver - flattop, T-marked upper receiver - staked gas key - fully chromed bolt and carrier group - shot-peened, MP tested, and pressure tested bolt Here's what I'm not sure of, and would appreciate any and all advice on: - Should I go with a fluted barrel, or non-fluted? My understanding is that fluted barrels create more surface area to allow more rapid cooling but at the cost of strength, reliability, and durability. And that non-fluted barrels maintain more strength, reliability, and durability by keeping more material in the barrel. True? How much more does it generally cost for a fluted barrel? This will not be a safe queen nor a strictly bench rifle. I want this thing tough, so does that mean I want non-fluted? - I want to start out with iron sights, or possibly backup iron sights, and go for any optics later on one my build is complete. I'm considering having a standard front sight base on my barrel, and installing just a flip-up rear sight on the upper receiver. Is this a good idea, and is this common? Because my thought is I'd like to put a scope on eventually, and I heard on Brownells.com that you can set up any optic for dual-witnessing, where the zero on your scope or red dot would align with the FSB. Is that a good idea, because it seems like you'd be blocking out a large portion of your view by doing that. If that's the case, should I plan on replacing a FSB with a flip-up BUIS installed on a low profile gas block? - If I go with a standard FSB, I've heard your best bet is to go with a forged and F-marked FSB with taper pins. True? - I've been looking all over, and can't seem to find an affordable barrel with all the specs I want. What is a good price on a 16", 1:7, chrome-lined, mid-length barrel with M4 feed ramp cuts? I think the cheapest I've seen is from PalmettoStateArmory.com for $180, plus $15 shipping. Can you recommend anywhere, or provide links to specific models you've seen? I definitely want the above specs, but I suppose I'd be willing to go with a 1:9 rifling twist if necessary. Thanks in advance!
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I will only touch on a few items.
On a 16" barrel why would you want fluting? What do you plan on doing with this rifle? It doesn't sound like a precision rig so leave the fluting for a 20"+ barrel and precision shooting. Start with irons if you are not familiar with them. Walk before you run. Get an 'F' marked FSB. Stay away from flip ups for now and just get a carry handle for now or a similar solid one piece design. |
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IMO you are over thinking things and speeding through the AR progression; trying to just read the cliff notes if you will. Just start out with a decent upper, learn about the AR15 rifle by shooting it as much as you can and spending time on this site reading threads and gaining knowledge about specific set ups and purpose driven builds. This won't be your first AR so start simple. Don't try to rush to the front of the line so quickly. You will end up spending much more $ that way. Don't worry, you will end up contracting the disease just like all the veterans here at some point. The fun is getting there
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Quoted:
I will only touch on a few items. On a 16" barrel why would you want fluting? What do you plan on doing with this rifle? It doesn't sound like a precision rig so leave the fluting for a 20"+ barrel and precision shooting. Start with irons if you are not familiar with them. Walk before you run. Get an 'F' marked FSB. Stay away from flip ups for now and just get a carry handle for now or a similar solid one piece design. I don't know that I want fluting, I've just heard it's a better feature to have. I guess I don't want one then, if it's mainly a good feature only on precision long-barrel rifles. And I forgot to mention (I just edited it in) that I'd like a flat-top upper receiver, but I guess that might have been implied by me wanting a T-marked upper. Quoted:
IMO you are over thinking things and speeding through the AR progression; trying to just read the cliff notes if you will. Just start out with a decent upper, learn about the AR15 rifle by shooting it as much as you can and spending time on this site reading threads and gaining knowledge about specific set ups and purpose driven builds. This won't be your first AR so start simple. Don't try to rush to the front of the line so quickly. You will end up spending much more $ that way. Don't worry, you will end up contracting the disease just like all the veterans here at some point. The fun is getting there What am I overthinking? I just know what features I'd like from reading. I originally began thinking I wanted to build the cheapest possible AR-15, but now I think I wouldn't mind spending a little more (ex: fully chromed BCG, chrome-lined barrel, etc.) get quality, so that I only have to buy once. I've been reading on here, but I can't do a lot of searching. I've heard you only get a benefit from searching if you're a paying member. That's what everybody says, that this won't be my first build. But I don't see why I'd need a second fighting carbine/whatever you want to call it. I've already got a .22 LR for cheap shooting, and a Mosin-Nagant as a backup rifle. I've been wanting a good modern carbine/rifle, and wouldn't really have the money, time, or need for a second one. And I don't mean to rush, it's just that getting my lower parts have got me ready to hold this thing in my hands! 
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A fluted barrel will dissipate heat much better then a non fluted barrel, and will weigh less as well. fluting will not make the barrel weaker, and I kind of like the looks of them myself. I have the melonited version f this barrel, and I like it a lot. It is fluted under the handguards as well.
this one is not chrome lined, but for most applications, chrome lining is not really necessary, but nice to have. DSA 16" fluted mid length |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I will only touch on a few items. On a 16" barrel why would you want fluting? What do you plan on doing with this rifle? It doesn't sound like a precision rig so leave the fluting for a 20"+ barrel and precision shooting. Start with irons if you are not familiar with them. Walk before you run. Get an 'F' marked FSB. Stay away from flip ups for now and just get a carry handle for now or a similar solid one piece design. I don't know that I want fluting, I've just heard it's a better feature to have. I guess I don't want one then, if it's mainly a good feature only on precision long-barrel rifles. And I forgot to mention (I just edited it in) that I'd like a flat-top upper receiver, but I guess that might have been implied by me wanting a T-marked upper. Quoted:
IMO you are over thinking things and speeding through the AR progression; trying to just read the cliff notes if you will. Just start out with a decent upper, learn about the AR15 rifle by shooting it as much as you can and spending time on this site reading threads and gaining knowledge about specific set ups and purpose driven builds. This won't be your first AR so start simple. Don't try to rush to the front of the line so quickly. You will end up spending much more $ that way. Don't worry, you will end up contracting the disease just like all the veterans here at some point. The fun is getting there What am I overthinking? I just know what features I'd like from reading. I originally began thinking I wanted to build the cheapest possible AR-15, but now I think I wouldn't mind spending a little more (ex: fully chromed BCG, chrome-lined barrel, etc.) get quality, so that I only have to buy once. I've been reading on here, but I can't do a lot of searching. I've heard you only get a benefit from searching if you're a paying member. That's what everybody says, that this won't be my first build. But I don't see why I'd need a second fighting carbine/whatever you want to call it. I've already got a .22 LR for cheap shooting, and a Mosin-Nagant as a backup rifle. I've been wanting a good modern carbine/rifle, and wouldn't really have the money, time, or need for a second one. And I don't mean to rush, it's just that getting my lower parts have got me ready to hold this thing in my hands! There are a bunch of "upgraded" parts that are coated in this or marked with that but in reality, unless you plan on putting the rifle through a bunch of carbine classes you don't need all that stuff to have a reliable rifle. Ar's are addictive; you won't be able to stop with just one. You will eventually feel the need to build a whole new rifle because you have an extra optic or hand guard laying around. I couldn't wait to have my first and 6 years later I have so many I can't fit them in one safe. Nothing wrong with wanting all the best parts, just be careful not to waste money on things you don't actually need. Get a good upper, buy lots of ammo and shoot the shit out of it. Eventually you will find what accessories make sense and what don't. If you've got the cash to buy the best from the start, buy a Larue, Noveske, or LMT. |
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Quoted:There are a bunch of "upgraded" parts that are coated in this or marked with that but in reality, unless you plan on putting the rifle through a bunch of carbine classes you don't need all that stuff to have a reliable rifle. Ar's are addictive; you won't be able to stop with just one. You will eventually feel the need to build a whole new rifle because you have an extra optic or hand guard laying around. I couldn't wait to have my first and 6 years later I have so many I can't fit them in one safe. Nothing wrong with wanting all the best parts, just be careful not to waste money on things you don't actually need. Get a good upper, buy lots of ammo and shoot the shit out of it. Eventually you will find what accessories make sense and what don't. If you've got the cash to buy the best from the start, buy a Larue, Noveske, or LMT.
No, I don't plan on going through any 3 Gun competitions or taking extensive tactical carbine classes or anything. And I don't plan on shooting 10,000 rounds per year or anything. Not being in school, having a limited budget, and not being able to shoot at home! But I just want to spend a little extra on quality and increased durability in certain areas. I've read that if you don't go with quality anywhere else on your gun, then do it with your barrel and BCG. Like you said though, I'm trying to make sure I don't spend unnecessarily in areas I don't think warrant it. For example, I bought the most affordable lower receiver, lower parts kit, and stock kit I could find. I don't plan on spending extra to get a "high end" upper receiver, gas tube, or front sight base. I guess I could see me building another sometime, but it'd be at least a year if not three. If I build this one right (like I want to), I don't think I'd need another rifle. But if I did, it wouldn't be another fighting/all-purpose/jack-of-all-trades carbine/rifle. I'd probably do a long-range rifle in something like .308. It's just that my thinking is that I plan on this being my only main rifle, so I want to get it right, and make it well so that it'll take (practically) anything I have to throw at it in time of need. |
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if you want fluting than get a fluted barrel..! but if you grab a fluted barrel GO with a "Stanless Steel Barrel" it just makes more sense to get a SS barrel if your gonna go all out on a barrel... i am guitly of having a chrom moly barrel with flutes but i dont have it chromed linned... chrome linning in my opinion takes away from accuracy... so if you want a chromoly barrel with flutes than get it with out chromed lined bore and then do a real good barrel break in and get that thing shooting accurate...
in my opinion...!!! if i were you i would just go with this barrel...!!! BAD ASS BARREL !!! its not a 1-7 but it is a 1-8" witch is really nice... and its POLYGONAL rifleing witch is even better..!!! and its Stanless Steel witch is better than Chromed linned in my opinion..!!! and its made by Black Rain..!!! Very nice barrel.. i think PSA had a barrel similiar to this for less......Hold on let me check....!!! - - - - - - - - Yup they sure do... but its not Fluted... here is the link... PSA Barrel Either one of these barrels would be a better choice in my pinion than the barrel of your specs... but hey that is just my opinion.. 
hope this helps//! |
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if you want fluting than get a fluted barrel..! but if you grab a fluted barrel GO with a "Stanless Steel Barrel" it just makes more sense to get a SS barrel if your gonna go all out on a barrel... i am guitly of having a chrom moly barrel with flutes but i dont have it chromed linned... chrome linning in my opinion takes away from accuracy... so if you want a chromoly barrel with flutes than get it with out chromed lined bore and then do a real good barrel break in and get that thing shooting accurate... in my opinion...!!! if i were you i would just go with this barrel...!!! BAD ASS BARREL !!! its not a 1-7 but it is a 1-8" witch is really nice... and its POLYGONAL rifleing witch is even better..!!! and its Stanless Steel witch is better than Chromed linned in my opinion..!!! and its made by Black Rain..!!! Very nice barrel.. i think PSA had a barrel similiar to this for less......Hold on let me check....!!! - - - - - - - - Yup they sure do... but its not Fluted... here is the link... PSA Barrel Either one of these barrels would be a better choice in my pinion than the barrel of your specs... but hey that is just my opinion..
hope this helps//! The barrel I've really been considering is this one: $180 http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/8960.php It's got all the specs I like: M4 feed ramps, 1:7 twist rate, chambered in 5.56, chrome-lined, mid-length gas system, and high pressure and MP tested, and all for $180. While I'm not wanting to skimp on the part that single-handedly affects accuracy the most, I'd say your first link is more than I'd like to spend. But I didn't notice that SS Wyle before, in your second link there. I do like that it'll fire 5.56 and .223 accurately, is mid-length, and is stainless steel. I suppose 1:8 would be able to fire pretty much the heaviest bullet weights reliably and accurately, while giving a bit of balance by handling lighter bullets better than a 1:7 would. And I just did a little reading on barrel lapping, since that SS Wylde barrel is. Seems like a good feature, I suppose. Since that chrome-lined barrel in my link and the SS Wylde barrel in your link are the exact same price from the exact same website, should I go with the SS Wylde? I've read SS is just about the best barrel option you can go with. But one question: Do they not coat the SS barrels with anything to prevent that shine that would be very bright and noticeable? That's the only reason I'm not sold on it. |
You really need to ask yourself what your purpose of this rifle is? You say you want it tough, then go with a straight up 'Mil Spec' gun and get some NiB stuff from Spikes and call it a day. Like has been said, AR's are the lays potato chip of the rifle world, you just can't have one. I just did a poll on it 
You can spend as much as you want but it doesn't always mean you'll get a noticeable improvement over stock 'mil spec' parts. I personally dont see the point in a fluted barrel that it not on a precision rifle. That's just me. The SS barrel is nice but if you are worried about it being easily seen due to being shinny, why? What do you want it to do? SHTF/TEOTWAWKI /HD/Varmint/SPR/Hunting/Range toy/Safe Queen/Truck gun... You see what I am getting at? If it really bothers you then paint it or tape it. Plenty if people hunt with SS barrels with no ill effects. You seem super concerned about accuracy. While the AR is a very accurate rifle it's a 2-2.5" gun with good ammo, iron sights and a sandbag while prone. A scope will tighten that up but it's not a sniper rifle. If you really want a super accurate AR that is still a work horse look into Larue and get yourself a Stealth. What I am getting at is lower 'quality' AR will shoot pretty much the same groups as a higher 'quality' AR with good ammo and iron sights. If you want to spend the money on the parts you want I say go for it but don't be mislead that money spent will make a huge difference in accuracy, as an example DMPS gets shit on a lot here but they make very accurate barrels. The only parts of an AR that will help with accuracy are the barrel/chamber and the trigger. The LPK doesn't matter nor does the BCG. Guns are typically more accurate then the shooter is anyway 
None of what I am saying is to bust your balls. I am just trying to help you sort through the junk. |
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this is just my opinion... if i had your parts and i was planning on building a Rifle to use in 3 gun compitions.. or even if i wasnt going to be compiting with it, but it would serve the roll of an Urban Tactical Rifle or even some forest or outdoors terrian type shooting...!!! You know like that stuff thats on the Magpul Dynamics video's...
then i would definantly go with the SS barrel from PSA its the same price as the barrel you were already looking at getting but In MY OPINION it is a way better barrel.. and alot more practical... i like the 1-7" twist barrels just becuase its nice to have a barrel taht will stabelize those 75gr + projectiles... but think about it for a moment... how often are you going to be shooting those 80 -90 gr bullets??? unless your reloading a shit load of heavy gr bullets, then a 1-7 would definantly be a better option than a 1-8" twist.... but if your like most tactical shooters, than your probably not going to be shooting and picking up brass... most tactical shooters shoot and move, and then think it would have been nice to pick up that brass... but they never do... sooo there for.. they try and get the best deals on bulk ammo, and that uselly comes in 55-62gr bullets.... there for a 1-8" twist is choice... and on occasion if you want to shoot a 75Gr tactical loads then your still ok with a 1-8...
I personally like the Pologanal rifling better than your standard cut, or button, or hammer forged options... its supposed to give you more velocity with the pologanal rifleing too... soo that means, if you get more velocity in a 16"er with pologanal, then you get more distance than a standard 16"er too... always a good thing...
plus SS is way better than a chromoly, shit... all you have to do is grab a can of Duracoat, and spray it the color you want.. if your worried about the glare... and your doing better than picking chromoly for the color... This is just my opinion... if your gut tells you to go with the milspec 1-7"er than do that, but be confidant in your choice... do what makes you happy... i always feel like if your confidant in your rifle and like your rifle over anything else that is out there... then when you get behind that thing and go to work then you will do better than if you have doubts... be the Master of your equipment and have total confidance in your gear...!!!! Not only will you shoot better but you will feel better too..!!! |
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Thanks for the info so far, everybody.
I went and picked up my stripped lower receiver a few hours ago, and already completed my full lower receiver! All except for the bolt release. I couldn't wait and put it all together with just the tools I found in the garage, and think I've disfigured my bolt catch pin past the point of usefulness. No problem, I'll just order another one––or maybe a spare just in case. Still looking around at my upper options. |
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I just received my barrel and gas tube. I went with a chrome-lined, MP tested, CHF, 1:7, 5.56 NATO midlength barrel with M4 ramps and got a matching midlength gas tube.
I've also got a stripped upper receiver, upper parts kit (including charging handle), and full chrome bolt and carrier group due here by Thursday. I should need only a front sight base or gas block, flash hider, handguard, and rear sight and also front if I go with a gas block, and my first AR-15 will be complete! I'd like to do a free-float handguard setup, but I also like the look of the standard A2 front sight base on there. For some reason, I just don't think I like the looks of a really long handguard with a MBUS or something up front, but I'll probably get one for the rear. I've read that you can do this; you just have to measure to ensure your handguard will end before the front sight base. But then again, installing a permanent front sight base would impede my view if and when I ever want to mount a scope... Ideas? |
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Negative. The only way you will see the FSB is if you use an EOTECH or visual sight devise, and it's actually sort of nice with the folding rear sight as a backup if the batteries die. However, any optic with 2X on will blur out the FSB, and you won't even see it. I think your idea of keeping the FSB for a first go is smarter anyway. I waited until my 3rd, and I will never build one with a FSB again.
Just make sure that the MBUS, IBUS, or whatever is cowitness to the FSB. You can get a sexy LaRue QD scope mount that is 1 MOA repeatable...Then you can pull off the scope with your kids/grandkids so they can shoot with the sights versus the scope. Hey, they have to learn somehow! |
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Negative. The only way you will see the FSB is if you use an EOTECH or visual sight devise, and it's actually sort of nice with the folding rear sight as a backup if the batteries die. However, any optic with 2X on will blur out the FSB, and you won't even see it. I think your idea of keeping the FSB for a first go is smarter anyway. I waited until my 3rd, and I will never build one with a FSB again. Just make sure that the MBUS, IBUS, or whatever is cowitness to the FSB. You can get a sexy LaRue QD scope mount that is 1 MOA repeatable...Then you can pull off the scope with your kids/grandkids so they can shoot with the sights versus the scope. Hey, they have to learn somehow! Just wondering, but why don't you use the standard FSB anymore? |
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