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Posted: 11/10/2010 8:17:17 AM EDT
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Just wondering, how much recoil reduction would I feel from installing a wolff extra power spring and a heavy buffer?
Currently running a M4 16" build using a buffer/spring. Recoil/flip reduction currently relies on a PWS TTO comp. Also, would the M16Clinic's buffer pad also help in reducing recoil? My goal is to make my rifle feel like its a BB gun so I can do very fast followup shots; or make my doubletaps more clustered. |
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It's kind of hard to put into words "how much" less recoil you might feel. First I have never used Wolfe's buffer spring. That said, I have used Superior Shooting (Tubb's) flat recoil spring combined with a Spike's ST-T2 buffer many times. The perceived recoil is significantly less than in OE configuration. I've had friends compare this set up to the recoil of an AR configured .22 LR. In saying this I will make the comment that much of this is determined by the barrel manufacturer and what size gas port they choose to use. For instance Daniel Defense uses a .075" diameter gas port hole in their carbine barrel where BushMaster for instance uses a .063" diameter gas port hole. No matter how much tuning I do to the Daniel Defense barrel, assuming I do the same amount to the BushMaster, all things being equal, the BushMaster's perceived recoil will be less than the DD. The brands I've mentioned are just a couple of barrels off of the top of my head that I could give the dimension on. DSA takes it a step farther and uses a .078" gas port diameter and starts out with the roughest recoil of the bunch. It's kind of difficult to discuss "rough recoil" when talking about .223/5.56 rifles as it's all relevant. Doing these mods to any of the barrels mentioned regardless of gas port diameter will result in, for lack of a better description, a softer shooting rifle than you started out with. If you start out with a barrel that has an .063" diameter gas port carbine barrel (i.e. Colt or equivalent) the results can be very nice. Starting off with a middy can also result in a very soft shooting rifle. When approaching these kinds of modifications one must take into consideration the possibility of introducing a short stroke condition. One of these mods might be just what the Dr. ordered where as compounding a couple of these mods might make the rifle less reliable. My experience has shown me that in some rifles I've had to take up to 3 coils off of the buffer spring to get the multiple modifications to run reliably. It might be a situation where an H2 buffer would be a better choice than the H3 dependent on the gas port. I have no experience with the buffer pad. It never felt like a good idea to me to have one of these stuck on the end of a buffer just waiting to come off. Out. |
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As geaehead said, adding a stronger spring and a heavier buffer to your gun could create short stroking issues... I have an ar with a colt 14.5" bbl that short strokes with anything other than a stock 3.9 oz carbine buffer when used with an m16 bcg.
also, an ar has almost nonexistant recoil. If you are trying to get it to feel like a bb gun, maybe you should have bought a bb gun instead :) |
Informative post GearHead_1 
He's pretty spot on ... stacking different mods like this can make a rifle unreliable depending on the gas port size and dwell time of the barrel you just have to play around with different weight buffers ... I would also suggest going to a H2 first. The only thing GearHead_1 forgot to mention is ammo quality also plays a vital role in this equation of timing and pressures. |
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Quoted:
Informative post GearHead_1 +1 Thanks! Followup question: does reduced recoil translate to reduced muzzle flip in this case? I'm trying to picture a force diagram for what a spring would do, and it doesn't seem like it would reduce side/up flip- what does it amount to in reality though? maleante: I need a BB gun that can register on a shot timer 
Edit: I have a DTI upper, and called in–– for future reference, DTI uses 0.075" gas ports. |
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I can only give you a description of the recoil from a couple of rifles I have directly compared. I took two recently built rifles out that were very similarly equipped all the way from the muzzle brake to the buffer spring. The only difference between these two rifles was the barrel. One being a DSA and the other being a BushMaster. A friend and I both noticed how differently these two rifles felt when shooting. I was having a hard time understanding why such a dramatic difference. The BushMaster was a real pussy cat, the DSA would kind of hop up. Not just muzzle rise. This is when I really started paying attention to gas ports. By the way both were set up as I described in my first post. Young M16 National Match bolts, Spikes ST-T2 buffers and Tubbs buffer springs. I took them both apart and looked them over closely measuring the gas ports. The DSA was as I mentioned a .078 and the BM was .063. Please don't misunderstand what I'm describing here. Neither was unruly to shoot or had sharp recoils, after all they're just AR's. One just had noticeably more felt recoil than the other one. It was definitely easier to keep the BM on target for follow up shots. As has been mentioned, if I were considering making these mods to a rifle I would start by shooting the least potent ammo I expected to shoot with any frequency and would make one mod at a time. Make sure the rifle doesn't start short stroking. If it were a first build I would buy the M16 BCG with it's added weight. If I wanted to go further I would then perhaps try a buffer spring. The only reason I would go this route instead of replacing the buffer is because the spring is cheaper to play with than a good H2 or H3 buffer. In my situation I've ended up with the spring and Spikes buffer. The .063's shoot very easy and the larger gas ports shoot much easier than they did when I started out. I had to play with one of these by trimming 3 coils out of the buffer spring. I've got quite a few carbines with this set up (Colt, DSA, BushMaster, Daniel Defense and Sabre barrels) and all are completely reliable with any ammo I've chosen to shoot. I've mentioned this before and realize that it would not be considered a benefit to many AR shooters but the Tubb's flat springs will make the typical AR SPROING virtually disappear. I kind of like this though I know others love this traditional sound. |
| i have personally found that the FSC556 and Rainier XTC work very well, also i played around with buffer weights as suggested above. the combonation on the FSC556, SpikesT2 buffer on my BCM 16" middy is the smoothest carbine i've ever shot. the carbine will run on anything other than Tula. i hope this helps. i personally would try a muzzle break, and then play with buffer weights to fine tune your carbine |
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