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Posted: 9/8/2010 7:22:59 PM EDT
I'm sure it has been discussed here ad nauseum, but is the 15 minute trigger job legite? Anyone try it? I don't think I want to take a hone to the sear, but I can't see where polishing it with a little paste and a buffing wheel on a dremel could possibly have any advers effects. I know the springs will have to be modified a little to get the pull weight down.

I have a stripped lower sitting on the bench that I hope to mate a 20" upper to in the next few months and would like to get a little distance with it. The stock trigger is waaaay to heavy for accurate long shots. I have read some folks singing the praises on this technique talking about 3-4 lb pulls with little creep and decent break. The best thing is, if you don't like it, you spend about $5 on parts to get it back to stock, VS a +$100 custom trigger.

Has anyone tried this? I'd like to hear some feedback.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:35:40 PM EDT
Yup, it's the real deal. It will improve the factory trigger by quite a bit. And with a little bit more, it can be made to rival triggers costing several times what a standard trigger costs.

I've taken this type of trigger job the extra mile, with polishing, and a little work to remove over-travel, and pre-travel, and I actually prefer it to the 2-stage triggers...
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:11:39 AM EDT
I have done most of the 15-minute trigger job to my Stag trigger.

I cut the one side of the hammer spring, then used my dremel, lightly, to polish the surfaces.

To put it lightly, it improved the trigger feel, and subsequently accuracy, a huge amount. After about 100 rounds the little bit of creep that was left disappeared.

I know the instructions say to not do the trigger spring without doing the hammer spring, but I can say that doing the hammer srping without doing the trigger spring seems OK to me - nearly 1000 rounds later.

For a standard-type of carbine or rifle that sees a lot of range use, or fun target shooting, I would do it again and again. FOr a Varminter-type AR-15 I'd spend the extra on a RRA two-stage (I've never tried the other two-stage triggers, but for how much they fail compared to how much they cost - as reported on these forums - I'll stick with the cheaper RRA two-stage, thank you).

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:32:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 4:34:04 AM EDT by rc109a]
I did it and it worked pretty good...until I started getting light strikes. The ammo beng used had te CCI 556 primers. I was only getting 1 misfire every 20 or so rounds. It was enough to convince me to buy a decent trigger and skip the cost effective method. If I was not worried about an occasional light strike or using winchester primers, then I would have continued to use it. Since I was goingto a Patrol Rifle course I just could not take a chance. I ended up with the Spikes battle trigger. Not as nice as my RRA 2 stage, but good for a patrol rifle.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:40:06 AM EDT
I wouldn't recommend modifying a standard trigger unless your rifle is a range toy only and you'd never use it for self-defense even during the apocalypse. Too many things could go wrong and cause problems.

If you don't care if you ruin your trigger or if your rifle only will be used at the range, go for it. It will work.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 7:43:06 AM EDT
You may be mixing the "15 minute" trigger job and the "Bill Springfield" job together. The 15 minute job won't effect trigger creep. Springfield accomplishes that with a small weld, but people here have listed a dozen other methods to inexpensively reduce slack over the last gazillion posts.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 7:51:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
I wouldn't recommend modifying a standard trigger unless your rifle is a range toy only and you'd never use it for self-defense even during the apocalypse. Too many things could go wrong and cause problems.

If you don't care if you ruin your trigger or if your rifle only will be used at the range, go for it. It will work.


It'll be a paper puncher as I already have 2 other AR's.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 9:55:03 AM EDT
AHH... fanning the flames of controversy Many naysayers think the only solution to AR triggers is to throw money at it, but others of us disagree. If you are a tinkerer and like to DIY, there's much that can be done to improve a stock trigger. I'm a fan of polishing and adding a set of JP springs for around $10. JP offers three levels of spring, from target to tactical, all improved over milspec/factory. Factory springs are for end all reliability, niether rain nor sleet nor mud, dust, lack of lubrication or too much lube will prevent the rifle from going boom. If you are trying to build a finely tuned acuraccy rifle, you can get away with something much lighter. The JP yellows are very light, but sometimes don't do well with hard primers. If you use match ammo or reload, it's not an issue. I have never had an ignition failure with my handloads in 2000 + so far on yellow springs. Polishing is good, grinding is bad, although some folks have changed the geometry for improved feel. Not me.
Here's a link to a previous thread on how to get rid of most of the creep, along with much discussion on the subject.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 3:22:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 3:45:29 PM EDT by SuperJanitor]
Originally Posted By PR361:
AHH... fanning the flames of controversy Many naysayers think the only solution to AR triggers is to throw money at it, but others of us disagree. If you are a tinkerer and like to DIY, there's much that can be done to improve a stock trigger. I'm a fan of polishing and adding a set of JP springs for around $10. JP offers three levels of spring, from target to tactical, all improved over milspec/factory. Factory springs are for end all reliability, niether rain nor sleet nor mud, dust, lack of lubrication or too much lube will prevent the rifle from going boom. If you are trying to build a finely tuned acuraccy rifle, you can get away with something much lighter. The JP yellows are very light, but sometimes don't do well with hard primers. If you use match ammo or reload, it's not an issue. I have never had an ignition failure with my handloads in 2000 + so far on yellow springs. Polishing is good, grinding is bad, although some folks have changed the geometry for improved feel. Not me.
Here's a link to a previous thread on how to get rid of most of the creep, along with much discussion on the subject.



Thanks! Very interesting. I think I'll go with the JP springs instead of modding what I have (that way I've got the stock springs, should I ever want them, and for the price, you really can't lose!) I think I'll try the set screw trick too. (I'm fairly handy with this sort of thing)


Lot's of chicken littles in that thread. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but to accidentally or intentionally go FA, don't the disconnector have to be "modded", disabled or otherwise fucked up by someone who don't have any idea what they're doing? Springs, sears and screws alone won't cause a FA, right? Something has to cause the disconnector to not hold the hammer until the trigger resets.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:46:03 PM EDT
i did the jp springs ($12) and a trigger stop screw ($.75) and it was night and day different. i am not super shooter but my group at 200yrd went from 50% in 10" to at least all of them.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:48:52 PM EDT
You are correct, the folks who think the set screw will cause a FA event do not understand the geometry of the FCG. The set screw actually forces a deeper engagement of the disconnecter and over doing it can lock everything up so it won't fire at all. Some people have to file a little off the tail of the disconnector to get it to release. Over filing CAN lead to a double tap, but without the auto sear to delay the hammer fall, the hammer doesn't retain enough velocity to keep running. It follows the bolt carrier home without a "release" if not caught by the Disco. You really have to work at screwing up to make that happen though....If you follow the directions it works fine.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 10:42:06 PM EDT
i tried the 15 min. deal to my cmmg lower. it works fine. fired wolf. pmc, remington, all the cheap stuff just fine. honestly, my dpms lpk was cheap for a reason. doing the trigger job helped out a ton. the biggest improvement to the trigger was taking the time to polish the trigger to hammer contact face. smoothing the faces with 1000 grit paper and then metal polish got rid of alot of gritty feel and creep. it sucks trying to make a 1 mm by 3 mm metal surface mirror smooth but it pays off in the long run.i even got brave and bobbed the hammer.works good with my .22 conversion too. the trick works. and if you screw it up, you spend 30 bucks on replacement parts.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:49:53 AM EDT
I've done nine rifle this way so far. All work as described with no failures to fire the primer.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 8:10:11 AM EDT
If you plan on doing the set screw, do it first, then ask if you even need to polish. Why? I set up my DPMS/Stag LPK in an AGP lower.The set screw adjusts most of the creep out to the point it justs breaks, maybe a 1/10" travel. None of the gritty portions are even travelled. Why polish what doesn't get used?

That alone changes the trigger 50%, the other part is the lighter spring tension. On a hunting rifle, I don't want a light target trigger. There's too much banging around in the brush, exactly like field manuevers, which is what the Army requires the minimum 6 pound pull to prevent discharges. No, the finger doesn't have to be in the trigger for something to snag it falling down. It happens.

For $0.00 and 3 minutes spent adjusting the screw, it's about all I need. If it was a precision range gun, I wouldn't even bother with ti and would have it set up in the finished gun I bought. After I shot it, then maybe with some knowledge of why I was doing it, I could appreciate what it was supposed to do.

However expert some few may be, the majority really don't know how to do it right, and are looking to claim it was done so their rifle will have more credibility points than the next guys.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 10:10:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tirod:
If you plan on doing the set screw, do it first, then ask if you even need to polish. Why? I set up my DPMS/Stag LPK in an AGP lower.The set screw adjusts most of the creep out to the point it justs breaks, maybe a 1/10" travel. None of the gritty portions are even travelled. Why polish what doesn't get used?

That alone changes the trigger 50%, the other part is the lighter spring tension. On a hunting rifle, I don't want a light target trigger. There's too much banging around in the brush, exactly like field manuevers, which is what the Army requires the minimum 6 pound pull to prevent discharges. No, the finger doesn't have to be in the trigger for something to snag it falling down. It happens.

For $0.00 and 3 minutes spent adjusting the screw, it's about all I need. If it was a precision range gun, I wouldn't even bother with ti and would have it set up in the finished gun I bought. After I shot it, then maybe with some knowledge of why I was doing it, I could appreciate what it was supposed to do.

However expert some few may be, the majority really don't know how to do it right, and are looking to claim it was done so their rifle will have more credibility points than the next guys.


Trust me, that DPMS trigger isn't as smooth as it could be with 10 min. of polishing. But if you're happy with it, no need to change anything.

I THOUGHT I was happy with my triggers, before polishing. After polishing, though, I'd never go back!
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