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Posted: 8/13/2009 12:06:13 AM EDT
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I recently had a local gunsmith permanently weld a YHM 5C2 FH to the end of my Bushmaster 14.5" M4 barrel.
When I picked it up from his shop, The first thing I noticed was the non-slotted part of the FH was set at the 3 o'clock position if looking down the muzzle. I immediately pointed this out to him but he said the guy that does all the welding for him has been doing gunsmith work for 20+ years and it wouldn't be an issue. I argued for about 20 minutes as to how it obviously wasn't installed correctly, but the more I stayed there, the more the guy pissed me off. I just took my barrel and left, promising to never buy another thing from this guy. After I got home, I started to look at it closely. Based on his gunsmith's lack of knowledge, I'm not entirely conviced that the FH was properly torqued down prior to welding. What I'm thinking is that his buddy just tightened down the FH by hand and welded it where it was. I'm not to worried about where the FH slots ended up, but my question is: if this idiot only hand tightened the FH prior to welding, besides accuracy issues, what can I expect? And yes, I know it should have gone to ADCO for the work, but that's another story.. |
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Uh, well, that's unsat, you'll have dust blowing up in your face every time you shoot, which was the point of having the bottom closed...Also, you may notice the rifle "pulling" to the left when you shoot if the 5C2 actually works as a comp as advertised.
I don't think you'll have other problems from the thing not being torqued down. I'd march back and demand that it be fixed. Barring that, let us know who did it, and tell all your friends. If I were you and had extra time I'd stand outside his shop (off the property) with a sign saying that he does crap work. |
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What is it with these gunsmiths? Are they freaking stupid anymore? I hear so much of this happening on simple installs? That is sad when you expect a certain level of professional skills and they boogered-it-up and then they want you to walk out the door with your tail shoved up your ass without a comment. Out this gunsmith by town where he is located, not by his name (Do not liable or slander him personally), to protect others from his slackly poor quality workmanship.
Fight The Power! |
| There shouldn't be a problem if the muzzle device was only hand tightened. Sometimes overtightening a muzzle device will have a negative effect on accuracy. The fact that the FH wasn't indexed prior to welding is another matter. That was just a result of laziness or inexperience. I would be inclined to take it back and explain that you are not satisfied with the installation. Than again, I'd also be leary of having the "gunsmith" touch the weapon again. |
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Quoted:
There shouldn't be a problem if the muzzle device was only hand tightened. Sometimes overtightening a muzzle device will have a negative effect on accuracy. The fact that the FH wasn't indexed prior to welding is another matter. That was just a result of laziness or inexperience. I would be inclined to take it back and explain that you are not satisfied with the installation. Than again, I'd also be leary of having the "gunsmith" touch the weapon again. Exactly. Seeing as how he'd have to grind the welds down, properly index it and reweld the FH, that's a lot of work for someone I have absolutely no faith in. |
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Quoted:
What is it with these gunsmiths? Are they freaking stupid anymore? I hear so much of this happening on simple installs? That is sad when you expect a certain level of professional skills and they boogered-it-up and then they want you to walk out the door with your tail shoved up your ass without a comment. Out this gunsmith by town where he is located, not by his name (Do not liable or slander him personally), to protect others from his slackly poor quality workmanship. Fight The Power! You can't slander or liable someone with the truth. If the hider is welded with the closed portion in the wrong spot and he refuses to fix it. You can tell people he does crap work in your case. Maybe he does everything else well but he clearly doesn't do that right. If the work was contracted with him and he subcontracted it to someone else, he's still responsible for the work. |
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Are you saying that silver soldering puts less heat in the barrel than proper (read "quick") tig weld on just the flash hider/pin?
Silver solder requires that you get the barrel and flash hider to around 1200F to work properly, doesn't it? Or are you talking about the "new" style of fully welding the FH on, because of an omission/typo in the new ATF regs? |
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Quoted:
Are you saying that silver soldering puts less heat in the barrel than proper (read "quick") tig weld on just the flash hider/pin? Silver solder requires that you get the barrel and flash hider to around 1200F to work properly, doesn't it? Or are you talking about the "new" style of fully welding the FH on, because of an omission/typo in the new ATF regs? "D" All of the above. I'm not going to attach a flash suppressor to a 14.5" barrel using a method that isn't listed in the latest NFA Handbook. That leaves fully welding it on or Silver Solder. PursuitSS |
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Quoted:
Are you saying that silver soldering puts less heat in the barrel than proper (read "quick") tig weld on just the flash hider/pin? Silver solder requires that you get the barrel and flash hider to around 1200F to work properly, doesn't it? Or are you talking about the "new" style of fully welding the FH on, because of an omission/typo in the new ATF regs? Is there a signed ATF letter stating that this was an omission or typo? |
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Check below for blind pin and weld info. PDF file.
REVISED: APRIL 2009 SECTION 2.1.3 |
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i'm a welder by trade and i can tell you that tig welding is very hot. though very clean. i'm not famliar with silver soldering, but i can guarantee that a tig arc is much hotter that 1200 degrees.
if the fh was welded on, i would worry about putting more heat into the barrel. |
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Was this a pin & weld job, or a full circumferential weld?
The flash hider is pretty much history at this point, that goes without saying. If this was a full weld then it's not going to be an easy fix. To get a near-original profile of the barrel shoulder, your going to have to sacrifice at least the rear face of the Phantom. With the barrel in a lathe, the rear face of the FH and the weld can be machined down to the barrel diameter. If there's not much weld penetration, the FH may be salvageable, but if the penetration is deep then too much material will need to be cut away for the FH to be reused (at least in my opinion). You want to cut down the FH ahead of the weld and then back into the joint, How badly it shows will depend on the quality of the weld. If it's badly undercut, then that's going to show (unless filled in, and that's just that much more heat into the barrel). Repairing it right is going to be a lot bigger job than welding it on was. |
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Quoted:
Was this a pin & weld job, or a full circumferential weld? The flash hider is pretty much history at this point, that goes without saying. If this was a full weld then it's not going to be an easy fix. To get a near-original profile of the barrel shoulder, your going to have to sacrifice at least the rear face of the Phantom. With the barrel in a lathe, the rear face of the FH and the weld can be machined down to the barrel diameter. If there's not much weld penetration, the FH may be salvageable, but if the penetration is deep then too much material will need to be cut away for the FH to be reused (at least in my opinion). You want to cut down the FH ahead of the weld and then back into the joint, How badly it shows will depend on the quality of the weld. If it's badly undercut, then that's going to show (unless filled in, and that's just that much more heat into the barrel). Repairing it right is going to be a lot bigger job than welding it on was. I would make the cocksucker buy me anew barrel and FH. |
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