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Posted: 2/1/2006 7:13:03 AM EDT

Looking for input on upper configurations (old school - A2 - or flat top)

Also want an early CAR stock any sugestions? Aluminum - Rubber coated

Looking at the J&T kit. any feed back would be welcomed

Accuracy compared to a 16" ?

I am leaning towards a old style build?

Thanks

heavy.gif

Posted: 2/1/2006 8:09:25 AM EDT

[#1]

So..you are thinking of a retro build...PICS and information

Retro Picture Thread #2!

Armson OEGs for Retro-rifles

Retro AR's

XM177E2 (?) image from Son Tay raid for the retro interested

Lets see some oldies!

notice what all but the last thread have in common? teh search function turned all of these up.

Posted: 2/1/2006 9:58:32 AM EDT

[#2]

Its not old school if its A2 or flat top....

Posted: 2/1/2006 5:39:07 PM EDT

[#3]

the vesatility of the flat top is first rate. really hard to beat...

however, if you build one then it is assumed you'll need to build the other...

this didn't help much, huh? it did give you the excuse to build two, regardless.

you're welcome,

septic tank

Posted: 2/2/2006 4:53:02 AM EDT

[#4]

After seeing Stickman's I will be going retro.

hug.gif

Posted: 2/2/2006 7:30:00 AM EDT

[#5]

Which pic? You've got me curious now.....

Posted: 2/6/2006 4:56:37 AM EDT

[#6]

The one laying on the vest.

Where can I get the upper with out the case deflector?

Can a lower be purchased without the beefed up stock section?

I just wanted a quick kit to put together and now after seeing that pic I have a scavenger hunt on my hands.http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/XM.jpg

Pic from Stickman

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:01:34 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
The one laying on the vest.

Where can I get the upper with out the case deflector?

Can a lower be purchased without the beefed up stock section?

I just wanted a quick kit to put together and now after seeing that pic I have a scavenger hunt on my hands.

Great pics.

i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/XM.jpg

Pic from Stickman

Uppers w/o case deflector are only available used these days. I'd keep an eye on the EE section of this site, or hit the local gun shows (I've found two of them at the shows here in GA).

The only way to get an early type lower these days is either to find an early preban type, or build your own out of a current style. I've done the latter twice (one A1 type & one air Force M16 type) and I really don't recommend it unless you have a world of patience, and either a machine shop at your disposal or a lot of hand tool experience (my route).

I keep seeing posts that this or that outfit MIGHT do a run of early type lowers, but so far it's just talk.

Stickman's pictured piece has a plastic buttstock, which is not an accurete type, and a flash suppressor which really isn't a good dup of the original. The originals had plastic coated metal, and the only recently produced example I've seen pictured looked kind of sleazy. There may be some good ones out there though.

Oh yeah. Stickman's piece seems to have the early rifle type slip ring on it. In fact, the XM177E2 was the first AR to use the current delta ring, and the bayonet lug needs to be cut off.

Posted: 2/7/2006 8:23:18 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The one laying on the vest.

Where can I get the upper with out the case deflector?

Can a lower be purchased without the beefed up stock section?

I just wanted a quick kit to put together and now after seeing that pic I have a scavenger hunt on my hands.

Great pics.

i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/XM.jpg

Pic from Stickman

Uppers w/o case deflector are only available used these days. I'd keep an eye on the EE section of this site, or hit the local gun shows (I've found two of them at the shows here in GA).

The only way to get an early type lower these days is either to find an early preban type, or build your own out of a current style. I've done the latter twice (one A1 type & one air Force M16 type) and I really don't recommend it unless you have a world of patience, and either a machine shop at your disposal or a lot of hand tool experience (my route).

I keep seeing posts that this or that outfit MIGHT do a run of early type lowers, but so far it's just talk.

Stickman's pictured piece has a plastic buttstock, which is not an accurete type, and a flash suppressor which really isn't a good dup of the original. The originals had plastic coated metal, and the only recently produced example I've seen pictured looked kind of sleazy. There may be some good ones out there though.

Oh yeah. Stickman's piece seems to have the early rifle type slip ring on it. In fact, the XM177E2 was the first AR to use the current delta ring, and the bayonet lug needs to be cut off.

but for $185 its f'in good!

Posted: 2/7/2006 8:45:15 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Stickman's pictured piece has a plastic buttstock, which is not an accurete type, and a flash suppressor which really isn't a good dup of the original. The originals had plastic coated metal, and the only recently produced example I've seen pictured looked kind of sleazy. There may be some good ones out there though.

Oh yeah. Stickman's piece seems to have the early rifle type slip ring on it. In fact, the XM177E2 was the first AR to use the current delta ring, and the bayonet lug needs to be cut off.

but for $185 its f'in good!

Mine is certainly guilty of all of the above faults and then some. I've kicked around the idea of chopping the lug and dropping on the standard D-ring, but it really isn't a priority. I can't get a SBR in this state, so it will never end up looking all that close.

For the total dollar amount into it, I'll love it for all its flaws. If the same deals come around again, it will have yet one more sibling, because I am all about cheap AR15s.

Posted: 2/7/2006 1:34:02 PM EDT

[#10]

Stickman,

My post wasn't meant as a slam of your piece; but rather to point out to the original questioner what he would need in a totally accurate copy of the XM.

Heck, my own XM177E2 copy, built up in 1978, is on a Colt SP1 lower, so I'm no one downrate anyone else's variations from the original

Posted: 2/7/2006 3:28:04 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Stickman,

My post wasn't meant as a slam of your piece; but rather to point out to the original questioner what he would need in a totally accurate copy of the XM.

Heck, my own XM177E2 copy, built up in 1978, is on a Colt SP1 lower, so I'm no one downrate anyone else's variations from the original

No offense taken at all, but thankyou. My other XM177 clone is a heavier barrel, but retains the modern D-ring. If I could go the SBR route in this state, I would change it out.

Sadly, I can't.

Posted: 2/8/2006 9:26:13 AM EDT

[#12]

Thanks for all the input on the build. I think I will be going with a new A1 upper with case deflector just because it will be a good color match with a new lower. And I want to get my first build out of the way, Maybe when I have more time I will try the 90 % accurate build.

Thanks again

Posted: 2/10/2006 4:40:24 AM EDT

[#13]

I am placing my order today. any feedback on a colt 4pos aluminum stock. I think the upgade price is 35.00 higher than a standard aluminum stock from JT.

And I did some math and I am going with the A2 and switching it out latter. the parts minus the receiver added up to be $20.00 less than the whole kit, so I figure a $20.00 receiver is a good deal......

Posted: 2/10/2006 5:18:14 AM EDT

[#14]

jt distributing offers slabside and c7/a1 type upper recievers, you just have to phone the order.

also with the aluminum stock i think its just a replica of the colt stock.

Posted: 2/10/2006 7:04:03 AM EDT

[#15]

I was looking for a color match on the upper, and it has the case deflector anyways.

the latest issue of shotgun news their add specificaly states colt 4 position assembly it is $35.00 more than their std aluminum.

Thanks for you help

Posted: 2/10/2006 9:28:59 AM EDT

[#16]

They didnt have the buffer tubes for the Colt in stock so I stayed with the aluminum stock upgrade.

Posted: 2/11/2006 4:19:58 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I was looking for a color match on the upper, and it has the case deflector anyways.

the latest issue of shotgun news their add specificaly states colt 4 position assembly it is $35.00 more than their std aluminum.

Thanks for you help

A Colt 4 position aluminum stock does not exist. Never did.

When Colt was building aluminum based pieces it was a 2 position piece. Multiple detents didn't come into being until long after the switch to plastic.

BTW. Real Colt aluminum stocks sell these days for collector prices. Start w/$250 and up.

What you saw listed was typical Shotgun News advertiser BS---if it said Colt.

Another reason I don't buy that rag any more

Posted: 2/11/2006 4:58:26 PM EDT

[#18]

There are 2 aluminum CAR stocks in the EE right now. One is a real Colt

Posted: 2/11/2006 9:53:13 PM EDT

[#19]

....and essential arms sells a clone

Posted: 2/13/2006 7:05:15 AM EDT

[#20]

JT did have Colt aluminum CAR stocks available. It cost me an additional 25.00 more than their aluminum upgrade. Again the add in Shotgun news said they were COLT's so I guess in 2 weeks I will find out.

hinking.gif

Posted: 2/13/2006 1:38:05 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
JT did have Colt aluminum CAR stocks available. It cost me an additional 25.00 more than their aluminum upgrade. Again the add in Shotgun news said they were COLT's so I guess in 2 weeks I will find out.

Didn't mean to imply the advertised piece wasn't Colt; but rather that it couldn't be a Colt metal based 4 position. I suppose JT could have lucked onto a batch of the original 2 position pieces somewhere. Colt sure hasn't had any for over 20 years.

Posted: 2/13/2006 1:42:18 PM EDT

[#22]

think what they offer is a colt stock clone or copy, "colt type"

Posted: 2/13/2006 4:07:28 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
....and essential arms sells a clone

Here's my Essential Arms 2-position aluminum stock. It's attached to a DMPS slick-sided upper. Everything else is Bushmaster.

Posted: 2/14/2006 7:02:42 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I was looking for a color match on the upper, and it has the case deflector anyways.

the latest issue of shotgun news their add specificaly states colt 4 position assembly it is $35.00 more than their std aluminum.

Thanks for you help

A Colt 4 position aluminum stock does not exist. Never did.

When Colt was building aluminum based pieces it was a 2 position piece. Multiple detents didn't come into being until long after the switch to plastic.

BTW. Real Colt aluminum stocks sell these days for collector prices. Start w/$250 and up.

What you saw listed was typical Shotgun News advertiser BS---if it said Colt.

Another reason I don't buy that rag any morehr

You were right It was for a plastic stock. JT called today and they are out of stock of the Colt and they confirmed it was plastic. So I went with the aluminum stock.

Posted: 2/20/2006 7:12:36 AM EDT

[#25]

Parts came in last week, I put the stock and the upper on a colt lower I allready had. J&T's kit looks great. The upper fit was good not too sloppy and not to tight.

The only issues I have are:

The weld on the flash hidder looks a little rough is this common?
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/Weld.jpg
The timming of the flash hidder is off. (slot isnt at 12oclock

As soon as the tempature reaches 30 degrees on a weekend I hope to shoot it.

There was also a little rust inside the flash hider. any sugestions for cleaning. I tried a 20gauge shot gun brush but got it stuck. hinking.gif So I stayed with the standard OD tooth / gun brush.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/eject.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/boltcatch.jpg

Should be getting my lower this week from LCW.

Hey what is the spec for the hole in the bolt catch? The roll pin would not go through, I am assuming the roll pin will colapse when tapped into place and this will allow the catch to pivot freely.

hug.gif

Posted: 2/20/2006 8:15:24 AM EDT

[#26]

As far as uppers go, you might want to consider the used Colt 11.5 inch 1/7 twist uppers sold by CMMG. They have the shell deflector, if that bothers you (originals didn't have it). The price is right though.

Posted: 2/20/2006 8:43:23 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
As far as uppers go, you might want to consider the used Colt 11.5 inch 1/7 twist uppers sold by CMMG. They have the shell deflector, if that bothers you (originals didn't have it). The price is right though.hr

Already received the kit.. I looked at those but I still wouldn't have a close representation of the XM177. Hope to have the A! grip by 3-3-06. (next gun show)

Posted: 2/20/2006 1:37:25 PM EDT

[#28]

TTT

Posted: 2/20/2006 1:51:37 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Parts came in last week, I put the stock and the upper on a colt lower I allready had. J&T's kit looks great. The upper fit was good not too sloppy and not to tight.

The only issues I have are:

The weld on the flash hidder looks a little rough is this common?
i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/Weld.jpg
The timming of the flash hidder is off. (slot isnt at 12oclock

As soon as the tempature reaches 30 degrees on a weekend I hope to shoot it.

There was also a little rust inside the flash hider. any sugestions for cleaning. I tried a 20gauge shot gun brush but got it stuck. hinking.gif So I stayed with the standard OD tooth / gun brush.
i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/eject.jpg
i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/boltcatch.jpg

Should be getting my lower this week from LCW.

Hey what is the spec for the hole in the bolt catch? The roll pin would not go through, I am assuming the roll pin will colapse when tapped into place and this will allow the catch to pivot freely.

hug.gif

TTTh.gif

Posted: 2/21/2006 7:14:52 AM EDT

[#30]

Tried to do a copy of Stickmans picture, cat got in the wayh.gif
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/cat.jpg

Hey can anyone answer my other questions??

Weld on flash supressor?
timming of flash supressor?
cleaning of same?

Thanks

Posted: 2/21/2006 8:57:50 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Hey can anyone answer my other questions??

Weld on flash supressor?
timming of flash supressor?
cleaning of same?

Thanks

What other questions? What is the context to your 3 above questions?

What made you go with an A2 upper for your XM clone?

Posted: 2/21/2006 9:12:43 AM EDT

[#32]

Does the weld on the barrel look ok or should I have expected better?

When they welded the flash hidder on, the top slot is not at the 12:00 o'clock position More like 1:00.

How do I clean the inside / what do you use? there is a little rust at the bottom where the flash suppresor meets the barrel. tried a 20 gauge brush got it stuck then used the GI cleaning brush but there is still crap in there. Or do I just shoot it and let the carbon build up.

Went with the A2 because I could not find a kit with an A1 without the case deflector,

I looked at buying the kit with out the receiver and It would have only saved me $20.00, I will switch it out if I ever find the correct one.

Also there is a guy I work with that has a Bushmaster with an A1 he hates it so If I realy didnt like the look of the A2 I could have switched it out with him.

Posted: 2/22/2006 4:45:02 AM EDT

[#33]

TTT

Posted: 2/22/2006 5:16:33 AM EDT

[#34]

with the slot directly at 12 the flame coming out will blind you when looking through your sights.

looks like they didnt refinish the weld on the fh.

Posted: 2/22/2006 7:05:50 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
with the slot directly at 12 the flame coming out will blind you when looking through your sights.

looks like they didnt refinish the weld on the fh.

Are the slots of yours lined up (equal on both sides of the barrel or does it look like someone screwed it on and where ever it was tight they welded it in place.
hinking.gif

Posted: 2/23/2006 1:37:33 PM EDT

[#36]

LCW missplaced my stripped lower order. looks like no building this weekend. hould

Any advice on the flash hider. should a call and bitch or just keep it. (weld quality-timming of the supressor).

Posted: 3/6/2006 4:57:13 AM EDT

[#37]

Ok, Its official my first build is now done. everything went great except the bolt catch roll pin. I used the vise grip technique on the trigger guard with much success so I tried the same on the bolt catch, well the taped jaw of the vise grip slipped taking some of the anodizing off. Anyway had to use punches to complete the build. I now see why you would buy roll pin punches and starter punches.

Took it to the range 3hrs latter, brooke the barrel in for the first ten shots cleaning after each round (probably not needed on an 11.5" barrel). Shot 140 rounds everything was perfect. One of the guys at the club had to check my caseings, He said he never heard an AR that loudhttp://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/xm3a.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/xm2.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/XM1.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/argroup.jpg

Posted: 3/14/2006 9:28:28 AM EDT

[#38]

Received my credit card statment

LCW only charged me 109.00 including shipping
25.00 ffl transfer
575.00 JT kit

total build $709.00

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