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Posted: 1/20/2006 7:15:57 PM EDT
Well, I put a reduced spring kit in my new build. It certainly took the trigger pull way down. However, now I notice there is more creep in there than neverland ranch.

So does anyone have a tried and true method for doing some polishing on the surfaces/crisping up the trigger a little?

I'm not look for a match trigger here... it's just that this is pretty bad.

IIRC doesn't the reduced power JP springs come with some instructions for this? Anyone have these on hand they would be so kind to share?

Thanks,
Gundraw
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:57:43 PM EDT
Shoot it a lot. Or just take an India stone or some really fine grit sandpaper and break the roughness. Apply some grease-like lube (I use Tetra-Grease) on the contact surfaces. Be careful with the reduced power springs and light strikes though. I'm a fan of the reduced power trigger return spring since the stock AR is overpowered. The hammer spring should be at least full power to guarantee a good and consistent primer ignition.
I have about a 5.5 lbs. trigger pull with a clean break and almost no creep in my AR using an extra power hammer spring. This is down from around 8-10 when I first got it and using a normal power spring. Just remember, trigger pull is 100% about friction.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:11:21 PM EDT
it IS designed as a military rifle. are you asking too much? lots of accurate bolts out there.keep the ar for s and giggles.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:17:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tankjr:
it IS designed as a military rifle. are you asking too much? lots of accurate bolts out there.keep the ar for s and giggles.



What kind of advice is that? Military Rifles are not accurate?
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 3:10:42 AM EDT
i see the ar15 as a multi purpose platform.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:38:11 AM EDT
Isn't there a jig of some kind used to hold the parts while stoning them? What about the ceramic stones? I know that they are more expensive, but are they worth it?
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:10:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mstarl:
Isn't there a jig of some kind used to hold the parts while stoning them? What about the ceramic stones? I know that they are more expensive, but are they worth it?



Put the parts in a vice if you really are picky. I used one hand to hold the part, the other to hold whatever I was using to smooth the surface. Sort of an improvised jig I guess.

Sure, you can use ceramic stones. It really doesn't matter how you get the parts smooth, provided you get them smooth and don't absolutely destroy the hardening on the surface. Are they worth it? Beats me. It all depends on how much you can buy them for.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:17:48 PM EDT
The easiest thing I've found is to use a dremel type tool and those rubber (?) polishing attachments. You can get a really good mirror surface w/o too much chance of changing any angles on the mating surfaces, or damaging any heat treat.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:45:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By avatarhammer:
The easiest thing I've found is to use a dremel type tool and those rubber (?) polishing attachments. You can get a really good mirror surface w/o too much chance of changing any angles on the mating surfaces, or damaging any heat treat.



+1 I have never used it on my AR FCG but it has done wonders to my AKs. Dremel all the way.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:00:57 PM EDT
Get an fine Arkansas stone, couple bucks, to break the minor striation on both surfaces then use a Dremel buffing wheel with a little polishing compound and buff it out. Did one last week , dropped from 8lbs with rough creep (measured) to 5 1/2 lbs., smooth as a baby's butt and breaks clean. Took about 20 minutes and is now a great trigger. Make sure you get all the polishing compound off.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:28:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By outguy:
Get an fine Arkansas stone, couple bucks, to break the minor striation on both surfaces then use a Dremel buffing wheel with a little polishing compound and buff it out. Did one last week , dropped from 8lbs with rough creep (measured) to 5 1/2 lbs., smooth as a baby's butt and breaks clean. Took about 20 minutes and is now a great trigger. Make sure you get all the polishing compound off.



That's a good way to do it...

Also remember, adding grease to the sear surfaces will make creep more noticeable... All you need to put on it is a very light lubricant...
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:56:38 PM EDT
Dremmel tool with polishing wheel and Flitz. I dont even need to use a stone and I xcan get a mirror finish and the engagement surfaces. Also you dont go through the hardening on the trigger this way, which you can do with a stone if you get too aggressive with it.

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:10:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By outguy:
Get an fine Arkansas stone, couple bucks, to break the minor striation on both surfaces then use a Dremel buffing wheel with a little polishing compound and buff it out. Did one last week , dropped from 8lbs with rough creep (measured) to 5 1/2 lbs., smooth as a baby's butt and breaks clean. Took about 20 minutes and is now a great trigger. Make sure you get all the polishing compound off.



That's a good way to do it...

Also remember, adding grease to the sear surfaces will make creep more noticeable... All you need to put on it is a very light lubricant...



Marginally. I hate to accuse you of trolling theshootersden but it seems like every post I make, you follow up and say either exactly what I do or try and contradict me. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

Anyway, even though grease based products may add a tiny bit of creep, if applied in a thin coat, they tend not to dry out as easily as oil-based products. In other words, your trigger pull will be smoother, break crisper, longer than just a few drops of Rem Oil. I use Tetra Grease and reapply every few months and I have a clean break every time.

By the way, I like the Dremel idea. Really cool!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:33:31 PM EDT
The deremel tool idea sounds like a winner. I don't want to be walking on eggshells worrying about going too deep.

I know what you are talking about with the grease caneau. I have a Bushy 2-stage on my Varminter. For a long time, it was VERY nice. However, I started skimping out on the lube as I figured it was a bad idea in case it collected dirty. Then, after shooting some groups one day... boom, it got dry enough I couldn't feel the second stage.

I will try this out. Appreciate the help guys!

Gundraw

P.S. I'll let you know how it turns out!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:47:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 6:16:47 PM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By caneau:

Marginally. I hate to accuse you of trolling theshootersden but it seems like every post I make, you follow up and say either exactly what I do or try and contradict me. Maybe it's just a coincidence.



You seem a bit paranoid... After reading back, I see where your getting your accusations from... I cant help it you give bad advise some times... Just happens I reply to some of the same posts you reply too, doesn't mean Its intentional... I assure you though, its pure coincidence...Get a life and chill a bit...

ETA: Grease is a lubricant for bearings and gears, not gun parts...
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:38:33 PM EDT
Well, I did the dremel and flitz trick. It did give a mirror finish. I did end up buffing some of the finish off where I didn't want to. Especially on the hammer engagement.

I couldn't quite get ALL the ripples out, but it definitely polished some of it.

The big question is... I still have LOTS of creep... but there isn't anything I can do about this right? I mean, there is always gonna be that length of surface contacting right? I will say, it is MUCH smoother. Just more creep that I'd like, but livable for sure... especially for this kind of rig.

Gundraw
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 8:07:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tankjr:
it IS designed as a military rifle. are you asking too much? lots of accurate bolts out there.keep the ar for s and giggles.



Nice...........

The AR can be as accurate as you want it, down to a tack driver.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 8:13:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunDraw:
Well, I did the dremel and flitz trick. It did give a mirror finish. I did end up buffing some of the finish off where I didn't want to. Especially on the hammer engagement.

I couldn't quite get ALL the ripples out, but it definitely polished some of it.

The big question is... I still have LOTS of creep... but there isn't anything I can do about this right? I mean, there is always gonna be that length of surface contacting right? I will say, it is MUCH smoother. Just more creep that I'd like, but livable for sure... especially for this kind of rig.

Gundraw



Ok, let me ask you, what kind of rifle are you looking for in an AR? A SHTF stock BR or a tack driver set up?
If your out for a nice SHTF type BR, leave it be and shoot the hell out of it. A few thousand rounds later and she'll fit you like a glove. If you're after a tack driver, among MANY other replacement parts you will be using on this rifle, one of the first will be a different trigger all together. In that, ask around to some of the other guys that are tack driver shooters in what they have. I understand that JP triggers are but one of some trigger groups you can stick in it to suck up that creep and have a nice light crisp pull.

There is soooo much that you can do to that rifle, of course, you already knew that, I'm sure. Just show 'er love by taking the girl out with you long and often and see what you end up with.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:57:11 PM EDT
WizardofAhs - Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. No, I certainly don't think I'll do anything else with the trigger. I already have a long range rig... which is why I needed to build this one .

So yes, it's kinda a SHTF gun. It's just that with all the paper I kill, a nice trigger is a bonus, and the stock thing was pretty bad. I just asked about the creep to make sure there weren't anymore "home remedies".

The flitz trick really did smooth it out. Between that and the reduced power springs, it feels 200% better.

I"m not gonna lie, I have a little bit of a hidden agenda too. I wanted get this trigger tuned down enough that I can bumpfire with it effectively... Haven't tested it yet, but will soon I"m sure.

Thanks for the all the input. The polishing was a success.

Gundraw
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:50:14 AM EDT
I am glad the Flitz and Dremmel worked out for you! I havent found a better or faster way to get the same results yet.

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:06:37 PM EDT
New to AR triggers here. Do you have any diagrams on what areas to polish? My trigger is really gritty and heavy and I would like to smooth it out a bit.

Thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:48:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 5:49:52 PM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By ernieb:
New to AR triggers here. Do you have any diagrams on what areas to polish? My trigger is really gritty and heavy and I would like to smooth it out a bit.

Thanks for the help.



Trigger tuning is one of my specialties, I wish I had the means to help you out...

I need to buy a nice digital camera that produces quality close up shots of small parts... That way I can put together a detailed "How to safely tune your trigger" class for you guys...

I think its about time I get one? Stickman, if your reading this, I think im going to need your advise about what type camera to get...
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:59:40 PM EDT
This is what I polished. However, I am quite a newb (obviously) and would like to know how better to do it. Even though I got a mirror finish with the flitz/dremmel technique. You could clearly see "waves" in the actual surface....



Hope this helps. If you look on the trigger, you can see where the "notch" in the hammer contacts the front slab of the trigger.

Gundraw
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:14:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 6:20:30 PM EDT by theshootersden]
Polishing after stoning is OK, and does make a difference... The trick to that perfect take-up and break is to not polish the surfaces to be smooth as glass... The right amount of polishing to leave behind a small amount of abrasion on the sear surfaces will allow the lubricant to have something to grab onto and stick to... To much abrasion leaves the trigger feeling gritty, to little leaves it with a spongy stuttering feeling...
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:46:44 AM EDT
I have polished many AR trigger and hammers, using stones and dremmels. I don't do it much anymore unless a friend asks me. I have converted to using Rock River Arms 2-stage triggers. Sometimes you can find them on the EE for about $85 delivered. They break clean, and, to me, well worth the money. BUT you still have to shell out $85 or so. If you want to polish, it has been my experience that the dremmel is the fastest and easiest method, AND, chances are, the safest for not messing up engagement angles or going too far into the metal/heat treatment. The nice part is that hammers and triggers don't cost an arm and a leg if you mess them up. I may even have a set I have polished.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:16:34 AM EDT
If you want to bump-fire - creep is not a problem. Weight is. You can bump the shit out of any AR, if you just use a standard trigger, no polishing, and clip one hammer spring, or install a reduce power spring. That is all.

If you want to remove the creep out of a stock FCG - buy a new 2-stage trigger. Removing creep means removing sear engagement material on a stock FCG. If you do this, you will ruin the trigger, and eventually it will become unsafe, because you will cut through the surface hardening. It will be sweet for a while... then it will either get really gritty, or start doubling/failing. Bad ju-ju.

I wont polish enagement surfaces with a stone or dremel. I simply remove the trigger, clean and dry them with brake cleaner/alcohol, then dab Flitz in the sear surfaces, and reinstall. Then I sit with the lower while watching TV and reset/pull the trigger a few hundred times, working the flitz in. Then remove, clean, lube with moly grease, and go to town. That is IT.

If you want to improve your stock FCG - go for it.... just be smart. If you want a "match" trigger, buy a friggin match trigger.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:08:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 8:09:20 AM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
If you want to bump-fire - creep is not a problem. Weight is. You can bump the shit out of any AR, if you just use a standard trigger, no polishing, and clip one hammer spring, or install a reduce power spring. That is all.

If you want to remove the creep out of a stock FCG - buy a new 2-stage trigger. Removing creep means removing sear engagement material on a stock FCG. If you do this, you will ruin the trigger, and eventually it will become unsafe, because you will cut through the surface hardening. It will be sweet for a while... then it will either get really gritty, or start doubling/failing. Bad ju-ju.

I wont polish enagement surfaces with a stone or dremel. I simply remove the trigger, clean and dry them with brake cleaner/alcohol, then dab Flitz in the sear surfaces, and reinstall. Then I sit with the lower while watching TV and reset/pull the trigger a few hundred times, working the flitz in. Then remove, clean, lube with moly grease, and go to town. That is IT.

If you want to improve your stock FCG - go for it.... just be smart. If you want a "match" trigger, buy a friggin match trigger.




You remove material from the hammer engagement area only... And NOT the machined sear surface either... If done properly, none of the hardened sear contact surface is altered... Most likely though, you will need to time the disconnect afterwards...
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