Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/10/2006 9:29:14 PM EDT
Hello All. I am totally new to the AR family and have been reading every bit of info I can find on this fantastic firearm. There is so much to digest that I want some feedback from those of you who have them.

First: Will I be better off paying the money for a Colt, or will I do just as well with a Stag, Rock River, ETC....

Second: Chrome lined barrells seem to be favorite. Will the rifle I buy off the shelf have one or will that be aftermarket addition? I cant seem to find info on this

Third: If I want to use this for target and small animals, will I be better off with a 1:9 or 1:12 rifiling?

I think once I can get these questions answered, my initial purchase should be a bit easier. If theres anything else I need to look for or avoid, please let me know. I dont want to screw up on the initial purchase. Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:20:36 PM EDT
You'll find that the Colt vs. Everyone else argument is a very polarizing subject around here. Colt is just one choice. They have a reputation and they are a military supplier. But, they aren't the only choice nor do military contracts automatically make them the best choice for everyone. Colt's are expensive. Thankfully there are a number of very high quality companies out there. My personal experience, as humble as it is, has been with Rock River. The quality and attention to detail have been impressive. I thoroughly enjoy mine.

Stag(CMT) also has a good reputation among many on this board. They make many of the components other manufacturers use in their rifles.

Chrome lining is favored by many but is not a standard feature with some manufacturers. It is also not something you can add later. If it is a feature you are looking for verify that your barrel has it. If it is not specifically stated, assume that it is unlined.

www.ammo-oracle.com/ Has a lot of good information about bullet weight and barrel twist. In summary it sounds like 1:9 would be the better choice of the two.


If theres anything else I need to look for or avoid, please let me know. I dont want to screw up on the initial purchase. Thanks.


No matter if you build or buy I can almost guarantee that this won't be your only AR. Welcome to the disease!
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:23:10 PM EDT
First: Of course IMHO, (and many others as well) Although Colt is known for it's quality, there are many other quality parts and guns out there that cost MUCH less. I feel the Colt brand has turned into more of a fad/status symbol than a quality mark.

Second: Chrome lining is a VERY popular option and for good reason. I would suggest it for a general purpose guns. It is easier to clean, more impervious to rust, and extends barrel life... sometimes said to DOUBLE it. The only sacrifice is (arguably) a little accuracy. That said, there are certainly some accurate chrome lined barrels... and I have two of them that suit my needs just fine.

I really think 1:9 is the best all around twist out there. From 50gr (probably lighter, I just don't load anything lighter than that) to the 69gr SMK, you should be good to go. Very versatile. 1:12 can limit your options sometimes, but not if you are planning on staying in the light bullet arena.

Are you planning on building this AR?? Or buying it built (maybe and upper and a lower seperately)? Post what you decide on, there's lots of knowledge on this board that can steer you straight if you go the wrong direction!

Gundraw
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:50:44 AM EDT
Welcome to the site!


Originally Posted By GunDraw:
First: Of course IMHO, (and many others as well) Although Colt is known for it's quality, there are many other quality parts and guns out there that cost MUCH less. I feel the Colt brand has turned into more of a fad/status symbol than a quality mark.

Second: Chrome lining is a VERY popular option and for good reason. I would suggest it for a general purpose guns. It is easier to clean, more impervious to rust, and extends barrel life... sometimes said to DOUBLE it. The only sacrifice is (arguably) a little accuracy. That said, there are certainly some accurate chrome lined barrels... and I have two of them that suit my needs just fine.

I really think 1:9 is the best all around twist out there. From 50gr (probably lighter, I just don't load anything lighter than that) to the 69gr SMK, you should be good to go. Very versatile. 1:12 can limit your options sometimes, but not if you are planning on staying in the light bullet arena.

Are you planning on building this AR?? Or buying it built (maybe and upper and a lower seperately)? Post what you decide on, there's lots of knowledge on this board that can steer you straight if you go the wrong direction!

Gundraw



+1

bbls w/ chrome lining are manufacture as such--when you buy an AR bbl, it will either have C/L or not....

1-9 or 1-7 are the 2 most popular twists--very usable w/ most loads; 1-12 and 1-8 (more likely in varmit bbls and such) are also used
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:24:32 AM EDT
Welcome to the site , you'll learn alot here
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:03:33 AM EDT
Thanks for the info. Looks like the chrome lined barrels are the way to go.

I figured for my first one, I would buy the gun complete. Ive read the posts on here about the pros and cons about BIY and would be completely lost if I started running into problems. Once I have the gun and take it down and understand a bit more about how it functions, I will tackle a build.

This seems like the best place for any info I need and am happy to be part of the forum. Thanks for the help.

Any other opinions or ideas are more than welcome. Keep them coming.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:29:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By derrick_mcmlxxviii:
Looks like the chrome lined barrels are the way to go.




I want to use this for target and small animals


???????
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:04:08 AM EDT
I have Colts, Stags, Ameetecs and Eagle Arms. I like them all. I use both chrome lined, stainless steel and unlined. Carbine, Rifle and I'm working on a mid length.

Just jump in head first. You'll figure it out. You need one of each.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:52:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By derrick_mcmlxxviii:
I figured for my first one, I would buy the gun complete. Ive read the posts on here about the pros and cons about BIY and would be completely lost if I started running into problems.



This is a smart move, and also how I did it. It saves TONS of "is it supposed to do that's?"

Gundraw
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:21:24 PM EDT
1:9 twist is great for just about everything. lighter bullets will save on wear in the long run, I've always used the good ol' tried and true 55 grain, full metal jacket, boat tailed bullets.

AVOID Hesse/Vulcan Arms. I doubt I'll get much basing on that call . Those are VERY cheaply made "guns".

Rock River Arms are great quality and not as expensive as Colt or Bushmaster. If you are the type to not spend enought to properly clean your weapons after every use, Bushys and Colts have a shiny finish that will wipe right off, not too tactical in my opinion, I prefer the matte finish the RRA has.

If you arent concerned about having name brands and symbols of elitism and are only concerned about quality:value, RRA cant be beat for off the shelf <MOA accuracy. You also have your Wilson barrel with a Wilde chamber, everyone wins.



that's my two cents, others will disagree and that's what makes AR15.com so great, you make the call in the end.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:39:01 AM EDT
I was on RRAs site yesterday and saw a couple rifles that I thought would be great. I was curious to know though, how is RRAs trigger?? It says its a 2 stage trigger? Is it an adjustable trigger, or will I need a different one to get a crisp 2-2.5lb pull. Thanks for all your help. Im gonna put my order in at the end of the week!
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:42:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 4:46:17 PM EDT by gilfrd]
Call and order.

I like the 2 stage better. I'm mostly a benchrest shooter and it provides more accuracy for me.

When you call them, ask them to tune your trigger for you, they did it for free for me and that second stage is super crisp at 1.5lbs.

It isn't really "adjustable" but with a dremel and willingness to buy a new part if you mess up, you can get it as light as you want.

Happy buying!

eta: 1.5 lbs may be too light if you plan on doing any competition shooting, check local laws and stuff too if you are going to hunt with it.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:14:15 PM EDT
Thanks for all the great info. Any other helpful tips would be greatly appericiated. Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 12:01:13 AM EDT
Quick note, I've been less than happy with my "mil-spec" trigger. I plan on doing some polishing work in addition to some reduced tension springs I put in... My Varminter has a Bushy 2-stage that is great.

Gundraw
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:15:08 PM EDT
the debate over chrome vs. other barrel bores has been running a while. if you want an accurate rifle, the stainless and high carbon steel barrels will work better than the chrome lined units. if you shoot cheap surplus ammo nonstop through your rig, you'd be wise to run with a chrome lined barrel.

i'd prefer a stainless myself.

you might consider the superior arms lower. the set screw feature they offer helps on the trigger. you can check out my experiences with this here. i really like it. i sat there for ten minutes wondering why i couldn't have thought of that small easy hole myself.

either way, Rkangel777 is right - you'll likely be an addict soon - there are worse things to be...

septic tank


Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:39:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
the debate over chrome vs. other barrel bores has been running a while. if you want an accurate rifle, the stainless and high carbon steel barrels will work better than the chrome lined units. if you shoot cheap surplus ammo nonstop through your rig, you'd be wise to run with a chrome lined barrel.




You are talking extremities here.

You certainly can have a very accurate chrome lined barrel. I have a Bushy Varminter I had custom built with a chrome lined barrel. I can easily shoot sub-moa groups, and with some loads, even tighter.

Sure, if you are gonna be in harsh conditions shooting surplus ammo etc, chrome is icing on the cake, but it does NOT make the gun automatically inaccurate.

I know I did LOTS of pondering when I bought my first AR about this very topic. One thing I deduced is this. If you buy a SS match barrel, many times you get some of the special flavors, tighter toleranced hand lapped bores, with short leade's and tighter chambers etc. Almost all of the chrome lined bbls are NATO chambers, and mil-spec from breech to muzzle.

How well would a chrome lined barrel with the same accuracy enhancements as SS match barrel perform??? IIRC Krieger made one, and I think there was a guy on this board who was getting SUPERB results from one (a 16" I believe).

So, by default, you are not just judging the chrome lining as an accuracy benchmark, there are other factors as well.

Keep these things in mind. It's not that what septic tank is unture, but just rather extreme in my opinion.

Gundraw
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:02:47 PM EDT
I placed the order for the chrome lined one. If I get can get nearly the same results, I dont think Im a good enough shooter to see a difference between the same. I fully intend to load my own rounds and also may purchase some match grade ammo once I get more comfortable shooting my new rifle. Thanks for all your help and suggestions and keep them coming.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:52:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunDraw:

Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
the debate over chrome vs. other barrel bores has been running a while. if you want an accurate rifle, the stainless and high carbon steel barrels will work better than the chrome lined units. if you shoot cheap surplus ammo nonstop through your rig, you'd be wise to run with a chrome lined barrel.




You are talking extremities here.

You certainly can have a very accurate chrome lined barrel. I have a Bushy Varminter I had custom built with a chrome lined barrel. I can easily shoot sub-moa groups, and with some loads, even tighter.

Sure, if you are gonna be in harsh conditions shooting surplus ammo etc, chrome is icing on the cake, but it does NOT make the gun automatically inaccurate.

I know I did LOTS of pondering when I bought my first AR about this very topic. One thing I deduced is this. If you buy a SS match barrel, many times you get some of the special flavors, tighter toleranced hand lapped bores, with short leade's and tighter chambers etc. Almost all of the chrome lined bbls are NATO chambers, and mil-spec from breech to muzzle.

How well would a chrome lined barrel with the same accuracy enhancements as SS match barrel perform??? IIRC Krieger made one, and I think there was a guy on this board who was getting SUPERB results from one (a 16" I believe).

So, by default, you are not just judging the chrome lining as an accuracy benchmark, there are other factors as well.

Keep these things in mind. It's not that what septic tank is unture, but just rather extreme in my opinion.

Gundraw



Gundraw,

you're right and i'm glad you read into my post the message i was trying to convey... i guess i'm nearly exhausted with reading "chrome lined barrels are the only ones to own" that are written here routinely. most people don't even know why the barrels were chromed after the "dream team" had them built without chrome and shipped to vietnam.

most ammo today doesn't require the resistance chrome has, therefore it isn't a necessity. yeah, you're right, there are a few ultra accurate chrome lined units out there but by far and above the vast majority of accurate barrels are devoid of the same chrome lined units in most ar's...

i guess to wrap it up, gundraw is right, it isn't a huge deal either way. chrome or non-chrome isn't a deal breaker. buy a barrel as a first timer on many other attributes and you'll be better served.

let us know how it works...

septic tank

Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:40:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
i guess i'm nearly exhausted with reading "chrome lined barrels are the only ones to own" that are written here routinely.

septic tank




Absolutely agreed. There are definitely uses for true match barrels on AR's. I've just found that the vast majority of AR owners don't use or plan to use their weapons in situations where they would really benefit from the subtle advantages.(Plinking, open sight shooting, using "combat" style ammo etc.) Or they are in a case like mine, where although I do like to handload and really try to grab every ounce of accuracy out of the rifle, I don't find the little accuracy gain worth losing the nice features of a chrome lining like barrel life, corrosion resistance, and cleaning ease. Cause even with my Varminter, sometimes a few mags packed with FMJ does the body good.

Gundraw
Top Top