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Posted: 2/11/2004 3:44:55 PM EDT
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Initial report on Model 1 Sales Standard A2 Rifle Post Ban AR with no options. I got my Model 1 Sales kit today and the following are my impressions. While there has been alot of speculation on the origin of the Model 1 Sales barrels, I'm sad to say that I'm not able to shed any light on the subject. There are no discernable marking on the barrel to identify the maker. The gasblock/A2 front sight certainly looks forged to me. It does have identifying marks however and they are 4DI1. The sling swivel is roll pin attached instead of having a rivet. The A2 upper also has a mark. It looks like an old skeleton key style "key hole" with a dot in the upper part and a dot in the lower part with a dot in between. The bolt & carrier has a very dark phosphate finish. Looks pretty good, but has no markings. The forward assist is the standard A2 round style. The furniture in unremarkable standard rifle fare without any markings. The handguards do have the aluminum heat shield. The upper came completely assembled with bolt/carried also installed. It appears to be ready to go, but mine was pretty dry. I'd certainly lube it before use. The lower parts kit came in it's own little package. Looks like it's the same parts kit that they'd supply to all AR-15 parts kit. All the parts are there and the mag release button and trigger guard are, in fact, aluminum. The sear surfaces are in superb condition. The buffer came in a sealed package which appears to be military surplus circa 6/69. The package bears the markings: 1005-937-3078 BUFFER ASSY 1 EACH DAAF03-69-C-0030 A - 6/69 I'm pretty pleased with the kit overall. It's fairly unremarkable with what appears to be all milspec parts except where AWB laws and ATF regs require otherwise. All the ferrous parts have a very dark phosphate finish. The aluminum parts have black anodizing. The mag release and trigger guard are somewhat shiny. Unfortunately, I had to send my Eagle lowers back to Armalite because of the "ear" problem. As a result, I can't report about the fit or color matching. I just sent the lowers back yesterday and my "memory" tells me that the color match will be very good. None of the parts appear to be "rehabilitated" used parts. There are no scratches and it came very well packed. Total including shipping came to $418.00. The lower was $96.60 out the door. Total cost for this project is $514.60. Perhaps someone with knowledge of manufacturing marks can shed some light on the source of the parts that bear marks. This kit contrasts sharply with a CAR kit I bought about 13 years ago for a preban E.A. lower. IIRC I paid about $100 for the kit out of Shotgun News. It had alot of plastic parts and a cast front site/gas block. Along with no heat shields on the handguards. Once I get my receiver back, I'll put it together, test shoot it and report back. EDIT: I forgot to add that there are no errant machining marks. |
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That's nice to know, because I just ordered a pre-ban 16" stainless fluted upper with no bolt carrier group about thirty minutes ago. It will officially be joined to a RRA lower/Ace SOCOM stock on Sept 15. Incidentally, the flat top upper on my RRA varmint upper has the same forged skeleton keyhole and dot on it. This was bought as a complete upper. On the other hand, I also have just the RRA flat top upper that I mated to a Colt 1/7 barrel. It has no discernable markings or stampings on it. Jim |
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Thanx for posting that info. I'm leaning toward a Model 1 CAR with the LE stock option. I think my stupid EA lower has to go back too. Stupid pivot detent pin hole is off stupid center. Plus that stupid trigger ear problem. [%|] Those markings sound like crop circles to me. [(:|)] |
| I just put my model 1 kit together using an Eagle Arms lower. My kit was in the same condition as described above. Actually, I was impressed. The color match with the receiver was almost perfect. The fit between the upper and lower was nice and tight. Lubed everything up and went out for a test fire the day before yesterday. It performed flawlessly. No malfunctions of any kind. I ordered another receiver and can't wait until I can afford to put another one together. |
| I assembled a 20" heavy barreled upper on a Rock River lower. The upper was a standard kit I got from Model 1. The rifle shoots great. The barrel is 1:8 so I have been shooting Hornady's 75 grain hpbt. I've been getting groups of about a 1/4" @ 100 yards so I can't complain. If I was to build another I think that I would buy from Model 1 agian. |
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Quoted: The rifle shoots great. The barrel is 1:8 so I have been shooting Hornady's 75 grain hpbt. I've been getting groups of about a 1/4" @ 100 yards so I can't complain. If I was to build another I think that I would buy from Model 1 agian. As a 223 bullet is 0.224" in diameter and 1/4" groups are 0.25", I'd say one hole groups at 100 yards are DAMN good. You must "hold" hard too. I'm definately impressed. Were these 5 or 10 round groups? Mike |
| I got one of there kits(20" heavy barrel w/ A2 upper) The only problem I had with it was the gas tub leaked were the front sight post and the hand gaurd met but I replaced it with another gas tube from Model 1 and now it shoots like a champ. When I build another one or refurbish another one they are the ones I am going to call first. |
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I built a model 1 kit about 3 weeks ago, and the barrel is a wilson's. I built a 16" post-ban with a muzzle brake. and a DPMS lower. Fit and Color was perfect! I was very impressed with model 1. I acually bought it from Ranger sales in Michigan. There a selling group off of model 1, that sell only model 1 products. $450 for the kit and 2 30rd. clips, and an up-graded stock. I paid $130 for the lower, $580 out the door. I was getting 1 1/2" to 2" groups at 100yds. Like I said I am very impressed! |
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I received my Model 1 upper from UPS today. It was well packed and had a light coat of oil on it. The fit and finish is very good, and matches well with a RRA lower. It is a flat top, stainless, fluted 16" HBAR barrel with green furniture. The barrel has no discernable manufacturing markings and neither does the upper, although the upper has numbers etched within the Weaver rail. The front sight pins do not appear tapered, but I'll know for sure when I remove the front sight assembly and install a YHM light quadrail. I am pleased with the overall condition. My only unanswered question is whether or not it is a 5.56 chamber and 1/8 twist as ordered. There is no way to tell for sure. I test fitted the upper with a RRA lower and it was tight. A 6x VOMZ scope and ARMS #22 rings taken off another AR attached perfectly to this upper, unlike a DPMS flat top that I'm also building up. I dropped in a RRA charging handle, bolt carrier group, and checked headspace, which was perfect. Here are pics: [url]http://www.ofoto.com/PhotoView.jsp?&collid=702203883103&photoid=602203883103&page=1[/url] Model 1 called me when there was a initial glitch with my card. They were polite and professional. Jim |
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Quoted: I received my Model 1 upper from UPS today. It was well packed and had a light coat of oil on it. The fit and finish is very good, and matches well with a RRA lower. It is a flat top, stainless, fluted 16" HBAR barrel with green furniture. The barrel has no discernable manufacturing markings and neither does the upper, although the upper has numbers etched within the Weaver rail. The front sight pins do not appear tapered, but I'll know for sure when I remove the front sight assembly and install a YHM light quadrail. I am pleased with the overall condition. My only unanswered question is whether or not it is a 5.56 chamber and 1/8 twist as ordered. There is no way to tell for sure. I test fitted the upper with a RRA lower and it was tight. A 6x VOMZ scope and ARMS #22 rings taken off another AR attached perfectly to this upper, unlike a DPMS flat top that I'm also building up. I dropped in a RRA charging handle, bolt carrier group, and checked headspace, which was perfect. Here are pics: [url]http://www.ofoto.com/PhotoView.jsp?&collid=702203883103&photoid=602203883103&page=1[/url] Model 1 called me when there was a initial glitch with my card. They were polite and professional. Jim Stick your borebrush and rod bout halfway down the barrel. Mark the rod with a felt tip pen where it enters the barrel. make another mark about 12" long along the length of the rod. Push the rod in till the long mark has turned a full turn. Mark that spot. Pull the rod out and measure between the marks. Should be 8" for a 1:8 turn. Chamber might be a bit trickier. |
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I just put an upper together with a Model 1 light weight barrel and parts. Quality of the parts is great, barrel, gas tube, sling swivel nicely finished and the holes were properly cleaned out and went together with no problems. Handguards were really well fitted with no gaps and no rattle when installed. Ordered the parts on Monday, and had them Wednesday. I'm very satisfied with their parts, prices and service. Will hit the range tomorrow for sight in. |
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I've been looking over the Model 1 webpage for a bit. What is the difference in the 5.56 and the .223 chamber? Is one cut tighter, while the other is better for shooting milsurp ammo? Also, what is the difference in thier M16 vs thier AR15 kits? Is one just stamped differently? |
| I just finished a 16" CAR kit from Model 1 and a lower from RRA. The fit and finish is good but I do have a problem. The selector detent will not go all the way into the whole. I ran a drill bit with my hand into the hole but it still will not go. The person i got the lower from gave me an extra take down detent pin and that is what is in there now. It seems to work but does not have much resistance when moved. What should do about this: leave it alone, drill out the hole alittle or...... This is my first build and everything else went great. Any advice would be appreciated. |
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Noctor, Welcome to a very addictive hobby and website. The selector detent can be very tight on some RR lowers. Do not force it in, it will be very difficult to remove if you do. The selector hole is step drilled, you are probably only checking the smaller diameter. If you look closely at the detent, it looks like a tiny rimmed cartridge. It is always best to perform surgery on the cheapest part possible. Chuck the detent up in a drill and spin it in some fine sand paper, wet-or-dry is best. Then check for fit with the selector removed, so you can push it back out if too tight. If it moves freely, clean the hole and detent well, put the selector back in, use a bunch of clp, and reassemble. Sometimes the detent is hard to work at first, it needs to wear in, and will with 10 on-off cycles. If it seems really stuck, just take some spring pressure off by loosening the grip screw, and move the selector till it loosens up. Put all back together and enjoy your new rifle. |
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Hi guys, I've been building and selling AR's for years and have had alot of good experiences with Model-1. The only thing I've noticed (When buying in bulk from Brian) is that once in awhile a front-site post is a little off square but this happens rarely enough that I don't stress over it. My guys and I here at the Chemical Weapons Depot (UMCD) just got done building a variety of Model-1 kits on Stinger lowers and the fit and finish was fine. Out of ten kits ordered we DID get shorted a buffer spring but they shipped it out to us without charge the next day. I've also had a Model-1 "dissipator" that I built on an OLY reciever for years now and it's worked as well as any of the issue Colt M-4's We're using every day here. If you can't tell (lol) I like like their stuff ;) |
| I took the newly assembled upper mentioned a couple of posts back, to the range yesterday and today. Ran several types of ammo through it, including much Wolf 55 and 62 grain stuff. There were no malfunctions of any kind. I shot plates at 250 yds today with the large apeture and could hit them with no problem at all. The light weight Model 1 barrel shoots just as well as any of my HBar uppers. I think my money was well spent. |
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Hi plateshooter. Gotta question or 2 for ya if you don't mind. Did you put together a 16" or 20"? I'd really like to know the weight difference between a 16" HBar and a 20" lightweight contour setup. If you have both rifles could you give me some idea of what the weight diff. might be? Thank you |
| 3800, I don't have a light weight 20" rifle, the one I put together is a 16". I compared the weight {using an old baby scale} of my other 16" DPMS HBar at 7lbs 4oz to the weight of the light weight 16" at 6lbs 2 oz and an Armalite 20" flat top at 9lbs 5 oz. I know that was not your question, but it may give you some idea of the weight differences between barrels. I don't know of anyone selling a 20" light weight barrel, but there may be some available someplace. |
| AR-Wrench thanks for the advice. I turned the detent down alittle and it now fits into the hole, but I still have a problem. With the correct detent installed it feels as if it has less tention than the way I had it. I think I am going to order a new detent and spring and see if that takes care of the problem. I hope so,and I can't wait to get to the range and put some rounds thru it. Again thanks and this is very addictive, I'am already trying to figure out how to get my wife to let me build another one. |
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Model 1 Report Part 2.....The Build I've had the kit since 2/11, but I had to wait till I got my Eagle lower back from ArmaLite. I first mocked up the stripped lower to the Model 1 upper using just the push pins. I was quite disappointed with the color match. The lower definitely looked purple. After, I put the lower together while slathering on a bunch of REM-OIL. The oil seems to soak into the anodizing. The match is quite good now. The sheen is a still a little different though. The Model 1 Parts look pretty good to me. There seemed to be a general tightness to everything from the pin holes to the matching of the upper to the lower. Previous builds I've experience have been kinda loosey goosey in some ways. With the Model 1 kit I had to use emery cloth to whittle down the bar on the mag release to keep it from sticking in the slot. I'm sure it'll take thousands of rounds to cause the pins to start walking, if ever. There is absolutely no gap between the upper and lower. Nothing rattles either. I didn't have to file the upper push pin holes to get it to mate to the lower. The push pins are a little stiff though. Not from the detent but from the tight fit of the upper to the lower. I can still open the action by hand. I just have to use a little effort on the rear push pin to get it to slide to it's limit. I'm thinking that will prolly free up some from shooting and usage. All the Model 1 metal parts sport a black finish, including the springs. So there were no issues with color match of the parts. One exception to that is the mag release button is black but kinda glossy. I'm very pleased. Only an ArmaLite model expert wouldn't believe that the whole rifle isn't an ArmaLite. Course I can't give all the credit to the kit, some of it belongs to the ArmaLite lower. You can view the rifle here: [url]home.earthlink.net/~tsr2/photoalbum/id1.html[/url] As an aside, I discovered that using water pump pliers (channel locks) worked much better for pushing the roll pins in, instead of using pin punches. I padded the jaws with masking tape and changed the channel 1 or 2 times as the pin got closer to it's home position. I found this method much easier to keep from scratching the lower although I did mask off the lower. I felt much more comfortable doing it this way. In a few weeks a bunch of us are headed to the wilderness to do some shooting. I'll report back then on function and accuracy. I'll try to be as scientific as I can. |
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Quoted: Hi plateshooter. Gotta question or 2 for ya if you don't mind. Did you put together a 16" or 20"? I'd really like to know the weight difference between a 16" HBar and a 20" lightweight contour setup. If you have both rifles could you give me some idea of what the weight diff. might be? Thank you My 2 Model 1 kits happen to be the lightweight and stantard 16" models. The lightweight rifle (flat top version) is about 5.5 pounds...the standard (which looks just like my HBAR barreled Armalite upper)one is at least 7 pounds. I spent a lot of time last year trying to figure out how much all this stuff weighs...but now I've forgotten it all, and all of the Excel files I had are gone thanks to Bill Gates' evil OS. Without being able to say it's exactly x.x pounds, there is quite a noticable difference when you handle the 2 rifles...the lightweight feels almost like a toy compared to the other on...I had posted a picture a while back to show the difference in barrel diameters...if you're interested, I can post it again. Now, after I've pimped out the standard CAR kit, theres about 4 lbs difference lol...but normally, it should be around 2 lbs. Hope that helps...not very scientific, I know. |
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IM NOT YELLING THIS IS CPPED FOR THE EXCITMENT I AM HAVEING......MODLE 1 ROCKS.. I ORDER a 16 " M-4 CAR KIT, WITH A FREE FLOAT TUBE AND A2 STOCK....IT GOT HERE AND LOOKED AWSOME SIMPLY AWSOME..IT MATCHED MY BUSHMASTER TO A TEE! THE FREE FLOAT IS A TWO PIECE AND THE FINISH IS POWDERY BLACK. NOW HERE FOR THE BEST PART, MY "KIT" THAT ARIVED WASNT A KIT JUST THE UPPER////OOOPS! ONE SINGLE CALL TO MODLE 1, AND BAM 2 DAYS LATER THE REST OF THE KIT ARRIVES..THATS PRETTY GOOD SERVICE, NOW HERE IS THE BEST PART, WHEN I CALLED THEY ASKED MY ZIP CODE, TOLD ME WHO I WASN AND SAID OK GREAT, YOUR PARTS WILL GO OUT TODAY. NO OTHER QUESTIONS NO HASSLE NO CONFORMATION NO MAYBE NO DOUBT, JUST SORRY FOR THAT YOUR PARTS ARE ON THE WAY !!!!! I have never in my life had a company back there product in such a way, I could have been a scammer or anything. they were more intrested in my being taken care of and happy than money. by the by the kit looks good but shoots great. the front base was high enough to use a a3 CARRY HANDLE ON ( I think the had the taller "f" style put on because I orderd an A# upper with it. carry handle on and zero in 4 shots.. I love it love it love it. I highly recomend there products, all parts metal all parts in new condition and profession ally assymbled. AWSOME ill will be buying ther again and again. thanks for listening to my pro modle 1 rant! hunter [red]NO I dont work for them or have any affliation except being a pleased costomer![/red] |
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Okay...here are 2 pics: [img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/188491/lightweight003.jpg[/img] and [img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/188491/lightweight002.jpg[/img] the thicker barrel is the Model 1 "standard" barrel, which looks just like my HBAR, at least the part not under the handguards... |
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doggincoyotes-3800, I can't say too much about the lightweight, accuracy wise...I've only ever shot it at 25 yards, to sight it in with the ProPoint3 that's on there...never tried it at 100 yards. I'm actually about to sell that rifle...$$ hassles, and the IRS just came knockin'...so I doubt I'll get around to any serious shooting with it, unless the buyer weasels on me. The standard will do well below an inch with hand loads...it hovered around an inch 'til I changed over to IMR, then it dropped down nicely. I'm not Carlos Hathcock by any stretch, so someone who can shoot well could probably do better with it...all in all, though, I'm not gonna complain too much about a kit gun that will do a shade over 1/2" consistently. The barrel on the lightweight thickens a bit after the gas block (under the handguards), but not as thick as the "standard". If I can remember when I get home from work tomorrow, I can post a pic for ya...but you're gonna have to hope I don't fire up Morrowind on the Xbox first, otherwise, there's no way I'll think of it lol. |
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Quoted: Fenian, I would be interested in seeing a pic of the two barrel diameters if you could post it. Thanks. dc I have a Model 1 lightweight barrel in hand and will have a Bushmaster lightweight barrel by next monday. I'll post the dimensions of both and weigh both on my precision scale. EDIT: would someone be willing to send me their DPMS lightweight barrel for dimensions and weight check. I'd be more than willing to return it my expense? |
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The Xbox is Microsoft's most excellent video games system, and Morrowind is a particularly addictive role playing game (RPG) that lets you wander around a huge virtual world and do pretty much what you want. It's at LEAST 100 hours of gameplay, probably closer to 200 if you do all the quests...the Xbox version includes 2 expansions to the original game, for even more gaming goodness. Suffice it to say, it's the crack cocaine of the Xbox, and I've been at it for about 3 to 4 hours a night here lately. So, if I get to that before I remember to take/post the pics, you're in trouble hehehe. |
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Can someone give me some brief info on how in depth these kits are? The upper is all complete and headspaced, right? You just take a couple bags of parts and put together the lower, and then join the 2, right? About how long does it take? 30 minutes if you know what you're doing, or one evening, or 10+ hours or what? |
| basically you're correct. It's only 1 bag of parts plus the buttstock. I've put together so many in the last few weeks I can do one pretty quickly. If you have good mechanical skills and instructions in hand and have never done it before, plan about an hour. The hardest part for me is the 2 roll pins. I'm now using a technique where I use water pump pliers (channel locks) to press both pins in, instead of a pin punch and hammer. I tape off the left side of the receiver with masking tape and put a layer on the jaws of pliers. Haven't scratched a receiver yet doing it this way. I also oil then pin & holes before I press. |
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i just recieved my model 1 kit today. i ordered it monday and got it thursday!!! this will be my 2nd ar. my first 1 is a 16" A2 m4 bushy. the kit i ordered from model 1 was the 20" flat top kit with a stainless steel 1-8" twist barrel. here are some pics [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/112310.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/112313.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/112314.jpg[/img] the barrel is .70" in diameter from the front sight forward. the things i noticed was an a1 front sight post instead of a2. the trigger guard is metal as the 1 on my bushy is plastic. i got all of my lower reciever parts. none was missing!! i also tested the fit on my bushmaster lower and everything fit perfect. the color match was great. |
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