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Posted: 10/29/2002 7:17:04 AM EDT
OK, this is an obvious newbie question.

Whats the point of an 80% lower AR receiver? I know since they are not complete they do not need an FFL to purchase. What happens after you finish one? If I am building a rifle for myself using an 80% lower do I need to register this weapon? What happens if I want to sell it?

Also, how is it treated in regards to the '94 ban? Is it considered a post-ban rifle? or is there some loophole that allows me to use pre-ban componants on it?

Just want to understand the perks of the 80%.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 10:53:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2002 11:02:50 AM EDT by monkeyman]
The point? Hell, there ain't no point.

Top 10 reasons to build an 80% lower.

10. It only cost you a couple hundred dollars in tools and a few weeks/months of effort.

9. Fixing your mistakes is character building.

8. Your kids will learn some new cuss words.

7. You don't have to go through a greedy FFL.

6. You don't have to register it unless your
state makes you register rifles or unless you just want to brag.

5. You can make a really cool post ban rifle and put anything you want on it as long as it complys with the post ban laws.

4. You can paint it any color you want.

3. You can name it anything you want like "Bob's Whizbang 2000"

2. When completed it becomes a one of a kind, customized collector piece worth way more than what you put into it. Anyone you show it too will want to buy it and museums will want to display it.

Number 1 Reason:
It shows that you have a large penis.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 11:14:09 AM EDT
Wow Monkey! Any of the last two or three reasons you gave should be enough to have me attempt a 0% with a dollar store hand drill and a box of nail files.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 11:27:09 AM EDT
Monkeyman, shut up, you don't know anything. I actually worked on a 80% lower. Someone I know just happens to be a machinist so for 80 bucks I made a working AR-15 lower reciever in about an hour. The reasons to do it are

1. You save money, a stripped lower will cost around the same, but you don't need to go through an FFL.

2. Its unregistered, the ATF says its legal to make a unregistered AR in post ban configuration (Unfortunantly you can't sell it, sorry).

3. You learn alot, some people ie monkey man lack the knowledge, know how and the opposable thumb to do such projects. If you don't know how to complete one, learning how to is fun.

4. If owning a gun makes me feel like a big man well making one makes me feel even bigger. Seriously, why not do it. Like with changing my oil, doing it myself nearly costs as much as it does having someone else do it. I change my oil and only save a miniscule amount, but I just like doing it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 12:17:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2002 12:25:35 PM EDT by ProfessorEvil]
Mman, you can sell them, but you can't specifically make one for resale, or you'd be manufacturing. Finding an FFL to transfer one might be a challenge, though.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 12:23:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By monkeyman:
The point? Hell, there ain't no point.



Perhaps not to you. However, many folks enjoy the idea of craftsmanship, and being able to construct your own (car, furniture, gun, etc) is an enjoyable hobby for them.

You ever build hotrods? Same principal for doing an 80%. Sure, it might cost more, and take a while, but in the end you can have a nicer piece than buying off the shelf.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 1:25:33 PM EDT
Shit, this is funny stuff. Great afternoon chuckle I think! Thanks Monkeyman. The afternoon sucked until I read this. LOL
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 2:07:38 PM EDT
What was the other 20% that had to be done in order to actually use it?
Lebrew
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 2:20:20 PM EDT
Top 10 reasons to make your own 80% recievers

10) Its not a Hesse

9)You can tell your freinds you made it from scratch.

8)Nifty excuse to buy expensive tools

7)Christmas gifts "you made yourself"

6)Its not a Dalphon

5)"Its either this ,honey, or I hang around in bars"

4)Its cheaper than drugs.

3)Paperwork. We don't need no stinkin' paperwork.

2)Chicks dig a guy that can "make stuff"

1)And the No. one reason to make your own recievers.............
Yes. It really does give you a bigger penis.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 2:30:20 PM EDT
#1 on my list is so that you can build it into a pistol.z
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 4:57:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lebrew:
What was the other 20% that had to be done in order to actually use it?
Lebrew



1. Drill and Tap buffer tube hole.
2. Drill buffer tube pin hole.
3. Drill front & rear takedown pin holes.
4. Drill takedown detent holes.
5. Drill selector detent hole.
6. Level surface that mates to upper.
7. Drill bolt catch holes.
8. Drill trigger guard holes.
9. Drill a few other holes..forget which ones.
10. Anodize lower.
11. Dye/finish lower.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 5:35:02 PM EDT
I realize if its so easy any fool can do it than every fool will try,
so Im a fool,,,but is there a template or guide with step by step instructions that even Lebrew can follow? I need a project with the winter comming on.
Muchas Gracias.............Lebrew
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 5:53:10 PM EDT
Lebrew, unfortunantly you can't get a templete, but there is a jig you can rent. Check out www.tanneryshop.com and www.roderuscustom.tzo.com. Its not just limited to AR-15s too, I have a Sig 228 project rolling along and people have made 10/22s and 1911s.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 8:03:21 PM EDT
lebrew;

The link below pretty well explains everything required to finish-up an 80% lower.

quartz2.cyberstation.net/~dwpaul/bs-home.htm

Any questions, don't be afraid to ask.

HTH . . . . . Doug . . . .
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 9:21:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
Lebrew, unfortunantly you can't get a templete, but there is a jig you can rent. Check out www.tanneryshop.com and www.roderuscustom.tzo.com. Its not just limited to AR-15s too, I have a Sig 228 project rolling along and people have made 10/22s and 1911s.



Where exactly do you rent this jig from? I can't find it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 10:18:45 PM EDT
And for us unfortunate souls that live in Kali what the hell else can we do?
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 10:54:13 PM EDT


***man this one i just laughed the whole way through
WE SHOULD SUBMIT THIS TO DAVID LETTERMAN
********
HAHAH

WILLIAM
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 11:22:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2002 11:31:56 PM EDT by budam]

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
Lebrew, unfortunantly you can't get a templete, but there is a jig you can rent. Check out www.tanneryshop.com and www.roderuscustom.tzo.com. Its not just limited to AR-15s too, I have a Sig 228 project rolling along and people have made 10/22s and 1911s.



For those of you in New England or that want to fly into New Hampshire via Southwest cheap airfares... Here is a chance to buy the lower and then have it finished on a CNC machine to corrrect tolerances.

November 1 & 2 - 8:00 AM till ???

For those of you who would like to build your own gun from an 80% finished receiver – here is your chance to finish the rest on site! 1911 or AR15 80% available.

80% 1911 frames will be $150.00
80% AR15 lowers will be about $80.00

You can buy the 80% finished receivers and then you can finish what you bought on our machine! This is completely legal.

AR15 parts will be available on Saturday.

The BBQ will be on November 1 & 2; I hope many of you will come. (I will post some picture soon) We have a nice backstop right in our front yard. There is a hotel/motel 2 miles up the road.

Please RSVP so we have enough materials on hand.


Kristi Tool
Rick Celata
Sanbornville, New Hampshire

Email: Rick@kristitool.com
Phone (603) 522-6821
(888) 574-7848
Fax (888) 758-1191
Link Posted: 10/29/2002 11:25:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
2. Its unregistered, the ATF says its legal to make a unregistered AR in post ban configuration (Unfortunantly you can't sell it, sorry).



You can sell it, but in limited circumstancs. It must be used and not new/unused. You had to make it with intent to keep it. Selling it because of family situations where you need the money (wife is sick) and the like are valid reasons to sell. Make sure you document why you should it and have a good reason.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 7:24:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2002 7:27:20 AM EDT by neilfj]
I don't think Tannery Shop is going to be renting out the jig unless he's knows who he is dealing with. He's been screwed once before and may be on his way to his 2nd screwing as we speak...and at $600 per screw, it gets expensive real fast.

Check out dropdbombnow's site. It's the best site I've seen for instructions (and photos for those who think it's cheating to actually read instructions..like me!). But Doug gives all sorts of hints/shortcuts and methods of getting around some stumbling blocks. Worth a read, even if you aren't going to do one.

I've already copied Doug's website to my laptop and plan on taking it with me to the BBQ in NH he mentioned.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 7:31:52 AM EDT
instead od a jig can i use one of my other lowers as a guide to center punch the holes?

will i need to drill hammer and trigger holes?
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 12:56:49 PM EDT
REASONS NOT TO MAKE AN 80% LOWER:
1) The undercover BATF guys that are members of your local club will now put you under surveillance
2) The undercover BATF guys that are members of your club will believe that since you can make an 80% lower, you can also make a machine gun, and probably will
3) The local police that are members of your club will now put you under surveillance.
4) Your house will be routinely searched UNDER WARRENT for illegal firearms.
Have a nice day!
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 1:54:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mickeymike:
REASONS NOT TO MAKE AN 80% LOWER:
1) The undercover BATF guys that are members of your local club will now put you under surveillance
2) The undercover BATF guys that are members of your club will believe that since you can make an 80% lower, you can also make a machine gun, and probably will
3) The local police that are members of your club will now put you under surveillance.
4) Your house will be routinely searched UNDER WARRENT for illegal firearms.
Have a nice day!


1) Bullshit.
2) Bullshit.
3) Bullshit.
4) Bullshit.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 7:36:19 PM EDT
Doug,
It seems quite a task, but hey thats what I got a drill press for. Your Builders Page is OUTSTANDING! Thanks for taking the time to do this and post it,
you are the man.

Lebrew
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 12:24:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mickeymike:
REASONS NOT TO MAKE AN 80% LOWER:
...
Have a nice day!



I think you have been watching the Twilight Zone too much. It is legal. I would not tell someone to do something illegal, if I knoew it was illegal. The regulations mention that it is legal.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 3:48:38 AM EDT
I have another question about building your own firearm.

Did it recently become legal to do so? Or was it recently made so that you don't need to register it? If not what if you built an AR receiver prior to the assault weapons ban? How does the preban/postban restrictions apply?

Since there is no S/N does it automatically need to comply with the post ban restrictions?

Are there any other areas of the law that are as sketchy as firearms laws?
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 9:34:01 AM EDT
Ok class, the new word for today is:

Facetious: adj. 1. Not meant to be taken seriously or literally. 2. Amusing; humerous


Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
Monkeyman, shut up, you don't know anything. I actually worked on a 80% lower. Someone I know just happens to be a machinist so for 80 bucks I made a working AR-15 lower reciever in about an hour. The reasons to do it are

1. You save money, a stripped lower will cost around the same, but you don't need to go through an FFL.

2. Its unregistered, the ATF says its legal to make a unregistered AR in post ban configuration (Unfortunantly you can't sell it, sorry).

3. You learn alot, some people ie monkey man lack the knowledge, know how and the opposable thumb to do such projects. If you don't know how to complete one, learning how to is fun.

4. If owning a gun makes me feel like a big man well making one makes me feel even bigger. Seriously, why not do it. Like with changing my oil, doing it myself nearly costs as much as it does having someone else do it. I change my oil and only save a miniscule amount, but I just like doing it.

Link Posted: 10/31/2002 11:10:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By monkeyman:
Ok class, the new word for today is:

Facetious: adj. 1. Not meant to be taken seriously or literally. 2. Amusing; humerous



Perhaps next time you should add a smiley so you don't look like a paranoid nutball.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 2:18:40 PM EDT
the main reason i can build one myself is because after the shootings and blamming the manufacture for it!(yes f^&*** stupid i know).
the VPC and the brady bitch does NOT know we can build these evil baby killing murduring blood thursty machine's. yes that was very dramatic but THEY DO NOT KNOW THIS IS VERY LEGAL!!! that is the real reason i do it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:45:45 PM EDT
Monkey man, I knew you where just joking around. What I said was also joking around, if I was trying to be serious I wouldn't have mentioned "and the opposable thumb to do such projects" (Yea its a crappy joke you know your names MONKEY man, okay I'll shut up now). Chill, its alright.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:36:03 PM EDT
This really sounds to me like a loophope to get an unregistered gun. You must assume that some unscrupulous types (present company excluded) will make a batch of full auto lowers and sell them to skinheads or gangbangers. Since there is no paperwork involved these are an easy source for an untraceableble gun. Sure it is probably really cool to build your own. I saw the .308 cal AR one guy did and it was really cool, but this cries out for abuse by the unsavories to me. But hey, my opinion is only worth what you paid for it.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 12:12:15 PM EDT
Lots of things out there that can be converted into a weapon, unsavory characters ARE LAWBREAKERS, talking about your God given right to construct something which may someday save your life is NOT a bad thing. Didn't two thugs just finish terrorizing DC with a LEGAL rifle, I do not think a gang banger with fullauto could have racked up a higher body count. People have been hurting and killing each other since the beginnings of time, and I know AR's were not around then.
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